Do I Respond? Did I Over-React?

[Unregistered]

So I've been going to a daycare provider for 3 weeks as a drop in. My mother and MIL normally watch my DS but my mother went on vacation and my MIL couldn't do full time (I don't expect them to, when DS was born they begged me to let them care for DS and of course I was fine with that. I offered them money and they refused it BTW.

So my mom went on vacation for 3 weeks and again, my MIL couldn't do all 5 days. I found a daycare provider around the corner who did drop in rates. I paid her upfront for 5 days of drop in care at a rate of $9/hr.

Things were going great, she kept asking me for my stroller I kept saying no because I didn't want to bring it to her home (seriously lugging his two bags plus carseat was hard enough for me).

So the morning of his last day I was running late, I arrive to her home 10 minutes late and ring the buzzer (gated 8 apartment complex). No answer, I wait a few minutes thinking "oh maybe she is in the bathroom." I buzz again, no answer. I call her a few minutes later, I leave a message, no response. I wait for half an hour and leave.

I go back home and see she'd emailed me earlier in the morning to meet her at some donut shop where I can drop my son off with his stroller and that she'd walk him to her home. I would have had to leave her my stroller, carseat, and diaper bag, and his other bag of stuff (clothes and things).

I was pretty angry at this point because 1- I hadn't seen the message, and 2- is she crazy? Why would I agree to drop my kid off at someplace other than her home? And to email it to me and not call to confirm I got the message?

I sent her an email back saying I just got her message and to call me when she gets back.

I get no call, at this point I have nobody because not only was my mom gone on vacation, my MIL went on vacation this last week too! DH was already at work. I call my boss practically in tears and he tells me no worries. So now I lose a day at work and have to use my sick leave.

I get an email from her at 12:30 saying that I should have told her I was going to be late (per her policy it says only call if you will be MORE THAN 15 minutes late which I was not).

I told her I want my money back for that day and she says she does not issue refunds but we can reschedule for another day and I demand my pack and play back. She emails me at 3 pm that she put it outside... My DH picks it up.

I'm pretty pissed at this point and tell her if she wanted to make things right she should have given me the money back for the day and that I will not reschedule with her. I get no response.

This morning I call licensing to complain but they told me that there is nothing they can do, while what she did was frowned upon, she didn't violate any rules or regulations. They say they will forward my complaint up the chain but that they do not think anything will come from it, nor can they make her repay me. I say fine and I just want my complaint documented if anything because I think it was wrong for her to email me to bring my son to some random place and not even confirm with me that I got the message. I had emailed her saying I would never have agreed to drop my DS off at another location and that I hadn't given her the stroller as well because I wasn't comfortable with her leaving the house with my son. I had actually thought about giving her the stroller that morning if she asked for it, but definitely still wouldn't have dropped DS off at a donut shop!

So later today I get an email basically saying:

I apologize I was unaware that you did not want me to leave the house with your son during his stay with me. I had no idea that my judgement was under such scrutiny. I make no apologies for making plans with your DS for the day. My intention was to take pictures of your DS at the shop to make a father's day card for him. The whole "darn thing" just went wrong. My offer for another day or child care remains open.

Then she goes into a whole spiel about how she didn't leave her home until 9:10 am and that her assistant remained behind until 9:15 am. And that she called me at 9:45 am to tell me she was home (I received no call or message). And 100% there was nobody else at her home as I sat out front like a damn idiot buzzing her apartment.

I felt it was a "sorry not sorry" message.

Do I even bother responding? I'm not even sure if she was called about the complaint. I don't even know why she had an assistant, she told me she had no one but my DS on Mondays and Tuesdays. And not to mention if my DS is the only child on that day,why couldn't she just wait until I got there? And if she didn't leave her house until 9:10 how could she have met me at 9 at the donut shop?

I feel like she's trying to cover her tracks but doing a poor job of it.

I also wouldn't want to return for fear of retaliation against my child.

Sorry for such a long post.

[Unregistered]

BTW just to add, I told her Monday that we still wanted to use her for emergencies, for date nights, and so on. So I'm really shocked at what went down. Specially when I told her I had a friend looking for care and I was going to recommend her.

[Josiegirl]

I wouldn't contact her again, let it go and find someone else. Sorry it turned out so poorly and yes, from what you said here, it sounds like she's covering her tracks. If she was planning on that ahead of time she should have talked with you beforehand. It just doesn't make any sense.

[kendallina]

It seems like you and her had a disconnect from the beginning. She wanted the stroller so she could take your son places. You didn't want her to take your son places. Next time, if there is this disconnect and you cannot come to an agreement, than that is not the person for you.

I say move on and perhaps lesson learned. When someone is providing care in their own house and has a contract, they make the rules. If you don't like the rules, find someone whose rules you do like. Sorry if it's coming out harsh, I don't intend it that way, but the number one important thing in the relationship with your daycare provider is communication. And if you and her were just not in agreement about whether she was allowed to leave the house with your child, than that's just not the place for your child.

[Rockgirl]

It seems like you and her had a disconnect from the beginning. She wanted the stroller so she could take your son places. You didn't want her to take your son places. Next time, if there is this disconnect and you cannot come to an agreement, than that is not the person for you.

I say move on and perhaps lesson learned. When someone is providing care in their own house and has a contract, they make the rules. If you don't like the rules, find someone whose rules you do like. Sorry if it's coming out harsh, I don't intend it that way, but the number one important thing in the relationship with your daycare provider is communication. And if you and her were just not in agreement about whether she was allowed to leave the house with your child, than that's just not the place for your child.

I agree to an extent...parents should choose a provider in line with their expectations. But if this happened like OP described, there was a lack of communication from the provider. An email stating to drop off at a donut shop? And if her policy is to be notified if parent is more than 15 min late, and she showed up 10 min late....it appears policy wasn't broken here.

[Blackcat31]

It seems like you and her had a disconnect from the beginning. She wanted the stroller so she could take your son places. You didn't want her to take your son places. Next time, if there is this disconnect and you cannot come to an agreement, than that is not the person for you.

I say move on and perhaps lesson learned. When someone is providing care in their own house and has a contract, they make the rules. If you don't like the rules, find someone whose rules you do like. Sorry if it's coming out harsh, I don't intend it that way, but the number one important thing in the relationship with your daycare provider is communication. And if you and her were just not in agreement about whether she was allowed to leave the house with your child, than that's just not the place for your child.

Sounds like it didn't start off on the right foot to begin with and BOTH parties resorted to some less than necessary behaviors.

Calling licensing over something like this?? That's a bit harsh. If a parent (a drop in one no less) called licensing on me over something so petty, I wouldn't take the family back for a $100 an hour. NOPE. NEVER.

The communication from the provider about meeting elsewhere sent at the last minute and an e-mail verses calling and actually speaking with the other person...also a bit passive-aggressive and could have been done a lot differently to have avoided exactly what ended up happening.

[Blackcat31]

I agree to an extent...parents should choose a provider in line with their expectations. But if this happened like OP described, there was a lack of communication from the provider. An email stating to drop off at a donut shop? And if her policy is to be notified if parent is more than 15 min late, and she showed up 10 min late....it appears policy wasn't broken here.

but, WHAT clock was either party using to state the times? kwim?

We've read a ton of posts about times and providers and parents arguing about time and who's clock was right.

Unless BOTH parties are using the same clock....that part of the story maybe true on BOTH the parents clock AND the providers clock.

[Laurel]

My opinion is that the provider should have talked to her on the phone and not by email if she was changing plans. To hope she got the email is not sufficient.

The parent should not have made a complaint with licensing in my opinion. Something like this did not warrant it.

If I were the provider, I wouldn't watch a child if I couldn't take them on stroller rides. I like to go on walks for a change of scenery sometimes although I have never gone to a restaurant or anything. To the corner store a couple of times but mostly just for a walk in the neighborhood. I also wouldn't ask someone to bring a stroller. I had one.

I would refund the money for the day to keep peace and because I would feel bad that she lost a day of work because I didn't call her. I wouldn't continue care though as I feel anyone who would report me to licensing for such a small thing would probably be someone I wouldn't be comfortable with from then on.

Laurel

[Play Care]

My opinion is that the provider should have talked to her on the phone and not by email if she was changing plans. To hope she got the email is not sufficient.

The parent should not have made a complaint with licensing in my opinion. Something like this did not warrant it.

If I were the provider, I wouldn't watch a child if I couldn't take them on stroller rides. I like to go on walks for a change of scenery sometimes although I have never gone to a restaurant or anything. To the corner store a couple of times but mostly just for a walk in the neighborhood. I also wouldn't ask someone to bring a stroller. I had one.

I would refund the money for the day to keep peace and because I would feel bad that she lost a day of work because I didn't call her. I wouldn't continue care though as I feel anyone who would report me to licensing for such a small thing would probably be someone I wouldn't be comfortable with from then on.

Laurel

I agree, it's odd to me the provider didn't have their own stroller. It sounded from the op that mom just didn't want one more thing to lug back and forth. I can see that.

[Rockgirl]

but, WHAT clock was either party using to state the times? kwim?

We've read a ton of posts about times and providers and parents arguing about time and who's clock was right.

Unless BOTH parties are using the same clock....that part of the story maybe true on BOTH the parents clock AND the providers clock.

Good point. I do specify in my policies which clock I go by. There's definitely room for error otherwise. Kinda seemed as if the provider was ready to bolt out the door to prove a point, IMO.

[laundrymom]

For $9 an hour she should not have to provide basic supplies for her child. As a parent I would expect a safe sleep environment be provided and any tools provider needed to do her job to come with that fee.
As a provider (licensed since 1987) I could not imagine expecting a parent to provide strollers, cribs, toys or anything else.
Seems as if this babysitter is not prepared.

[Unregistered]

I called licensing because my mom used to run an in-home daycare for over 10 years (95-07) and she told me I should tell them what happened. Calling the licensing was also for my own information, it helped me to learn that in-home providers CAN take children out on errands and so on without written parent permission. My mom said the rules must have changed because she always had to make sure she had written permission from the parents to take kids outside the home.

I partly feel bad for calling (even though nothing is happening and she'll probably never know) and I'm sad this all went down this way. This could have been completely avoided if she'd just called me and discussed with me and my husband about taking our son out. I think I'd have been more amenable to her taking him out if it was a request and not a demand "Meet me at x donut shop at 9 am, bring his stroller," and I really didn't need the snark of her sentence "I had no idea that my judgement was under such scrutiny." Of course your judgement is under scrutiny! I'm giving you the most important responsibility in the world IMO. Am I misreading what she's saying? I copied that sentence from her email word for word.

I feel like she took no personal responsibility for what happened at all. Not an "I'm sorry I should have called you to confirm you got the message, I should have stayed until you arrived or I heard from you."

You are mostly right Laurel, lugging back and forth a stroller is a pain, it's already hard enough to bring to her place (upstairs) 2 bags, a carseat, and my DS. Not to mention I live upstairs so each day I have to bring down all that stuff. Also, as much as I trusted her, I didn't think for just two days a week for a 6.5 hour shift it was that necessary for her to take him out. If I were there 5 days a week full time I could have worked something out with her, gotten a cheap used stroller, something, but for 5 drop in days over 3 weeks where my son was the only child there it just didn't seem that important.

The time I used was on my cellphone, I don't know what time she used. But regardless she should have stayed, her other policy is once you hit half an hour late then you are an unexcused absence, I was definitely not even that close to being that late! As it is I don't believe she left at 9:10, I believe she was gone before 9 am as she told me to be at the donut shop at 9 am. So even if I had gotten there at 9 am I'm sure she or her "assistant" would not have been there.

BTW there was nothing in the contract about taking the kids out. If there had been we could have discussed it at the time. I read over it again with a fine tooth comb and the closest thing to going out could have been about doing activities with the kids, to me that's arts and crafts at home or something.

Thanks for all your input. This is my first time using a daycare provider so I've learned quite a bit from this experience. I also agree once the relationship turns sour it's best to go your separate ways.

[Blackcat31]

I called licensing because my mom used to run an in-home daycare for over 10 years (95-07) and she told me I should tell them what happened. Calling the licensing was also for my own information, it helped me to learn that in-home providers CAN take children out on errands and so on without written parent permission. My mom said the rules must have changed because she always had to make sure she had written permission from the parents to take kids outside the home.

I partly feel bad for calling (even though nothing is happening and she'll probably never know) and I'm sad this all went down this way. This could have been completely avoided if she'd just called me and discussed with me and my husband about taking our son out. I think I'd have been more amenable to her taking him out if it was a request and not a demand "Meet me at x donut shop at 9 am, bring his stroller," and I really didn't need the snark of her sentence "I had no idea that my judgement was under such scrutiny." Of course your judgement is under scrutiny! I'm giving you the most important responsibility in the world IMO. Am I misreading what she's saying? I copied that sentence from her email word for word.

I feel like she took no personal responsibility for what happened at all. Not an "I'm sorry I should have called you to confirm you got the message, I should have stayed until you arrived or I heard from you."

You are mostly right Laurel, lugging back and forth a stroller is a pain, it's already hard enough to bring to her place (upstairs) 2 bags, a carseat, and my DS. Not to mention I live upstairs so each day I have to bring down all that stuff. Also, as much as I trusted her, I didn't think for just two days a week for a 6.5 hour shift it was that necessary for her to take him out. If I were there 5 days a week full time I could have worked something out with her, gotten a cheap used stroller, something, but for 5 drop in days over 3 weeks where my son was the only child there it just didn't seem that important.

The time I used was on my cellphone, I don't know what time she used. But regardless she should have stayed, her other policy is once you hit half an hour late then you are an unexcused absence, I was definitely not even that close to being that late! As it is I don't believe she left at 9:10, I believe she was gone before 9 am as she told me to be at the donut shop at 9 am. So even if I had gotten there at 9 am I'm sure she or her "assistant" would not have been there.

BTW there was nothing in the contract about taking the kids out. If there had been we could have discussed it at the time. I read over it again with a fine tooth comb and the closest thing to going out could have been about doing activities with the kids, to me that's arts and crafts at home or something.

Thanks for all your input. This is my first time using a daycare provider so I've learned quite a bit from this experience. I also agree once the relationship turns sour it's best to go your separate ways.

What state are you in?

It does appear from your additional details that the provider DID act in an unprofessional manner and it seems is a poor communicator.

I do think the right thing to do is for her to refund your money and be done. As a parent, I wouldn't be able to leave my child with someone I was unable to communicate with and one that I now have trust issues with..... Offering an alternate day isn't acceptable UNLESS you are willing to use her services again. If not, then yes...the money should be refunded.

Thank you for clarifying why you called licensing. I can see wanting documentation or more info but my first reaction was that it was harsh because many many states WILL act on any call a parent makes and sometimes frivolous complaints can permanently mar or effect a provider's business in a negative way. Even if nothing is done, it may be a permanent mark in her file and in my state that would automatically eliminate my ability to receive grants, participate in star rating systems, and a plethora of other things. Unfounded or not. Marks/complaints filed aren't always "no big thing".

I do think the provider could have done a lot of things differently. I also think that the stroller thing should have been openly addressed. If you (parents) did not want her taking your child off site, it should simply have been stated outright verses just not bringing the stroller.

The first time the provider asked for it, I would have said "I do NOT feel comfortable with you taking my son off site" and hopefully a discussion would have happened at that point that would have eliminated all this...

The time thing does NOT make sense and the provider is probably covering her basis but at this point I don't think it matters. You more than likely wouldn't use her services again.

I would send her a written request for a refund of your money and wait and see... she might just issue it without a word and move along....

If she balks, then the ball is in your court and what you do next would be solely up to you to decide if its worth pursuing.

Good luck and I am sorry you had a less than positive experience with using family daycare. It's not like that with all providers.

[Rockgirl]

I can't imagine it being ok in any state for a provider to leave with children without consent. Here, we have to have written consent--it's very specific as to which kinds of trips the parents consent to....school transportation, field trips, etc.

[Unregistered]

I'm in California. The licensing board said while her conduct was very unprofessional she technically did nothing wrong in terms of rules and regulations so there is nothing they can do. They did agree she should return the money, but again, nothing they can do.

I agree I should have been upfront to say I wasn't comfortable having my son out of the house, that was completely my fault and I told her that in my email that I should have told her I'd rather she not take my son out. It's frustrating I can admit my fault and even admit I was 10 minutes late, but she seems not to be able to admit she should have gotten in contact with me other than email (which per her policy she tells clients to not email but to call her). I feel as if I hadn't said on the phone "hey I know I'm a few minutes late but where are you?" she would never have known and would just have said "well I emailed you."

I definitely know it's not that way with other providers, my mom was great. She had a lot of military moms (we are in a military town) who would cry when they had to move because they loved her so much. She even had two little boys who the mom decided to transfer to a cheaper center and two weeks later called back asking my mom to take her back because her boys cried the whole time for my mom. When the mother brought her kids back they would cheer every time they drove up my mom's street.

My husband says don't respond (he's honestly really surprised she said no to the refund), but I think I should say something.

"Mrs X,

I received your message, at this time I no longer have need of your services. I would however like you to refund the money for that day as a gesture of good faith. This issue could have easily been avoided if you had called me from the beginning with your plans. I not only lost the money I paid you for Tuesday, but wages for a day as I had no one else to take care of my DS. Upon further consideration if you had asked me if it were okay to take DS on an outing we could have come to an agreement about outings, but I still would have preferred to meet at your home and drop off DS's things. I did not receive any voicemail from you so I do not know who you left a message for. At this time if you do not give me a refund I will definitely not consider returning, which is unfortunate because other than this incident I was happy with your services."

I wouldn't pursue legal action because frankly it's not worth it and I'd have to miss more work.

Thanks for your input.

What state are you in?

It does appear from your additional details that the provider DID act in an unprofessional manner and it seems is a poor communicator.

I do think the right thing to do is for her to refund your money and be done. As a parent, I wouldn't be able to leave my child with someone I was unable to communicate with and one that I now have trust issues with..... Offering an alternate day isn't acceptable UNLESS you are willing to use her services again. If not, then yes...the money should be refunded.

Thank you for clarifying why you called licensing. I can see wanting documentation or more info but my first reaction was that it was harsh because many many states WILL act on any call a parent makes and sometimes frivolous complaints can permanently mar or effect a provider's business in a negative way. Even if nothing is done, it may be a permanent mark in her file and in my state that would automatically eliminate my ability to receive grants, participate in star rating systems, and a plethora of other things. Unfounded or not. Marks/complaints filed aren't always "no big thing".

I do think the provider could have done a lot of things differently. I also think that the stroller thing should have been openly addressed. If you (parents) did not want her taking your child off site, it should simply have been stated outright verses just not bringing the stroller.

The first time the provider asked for it, I would have said "I do NOT feel comfortable with you taking my son off site" and hopefully a discussion would have happened at that point that would have eliminated all this...

The time thing does NOT make sense and the provider is probably covering her basis but at this point I don't think it matters. You more than likely wouldn't use her services again.

I would send her a written request for a refund of your money and wait and see... she might just issue it without a word and move along....

If she balks, then the ball is in your court and what you do next would be solely up to you to decide if its worth pursuing.

Good luck and I am sorry you had a less than positive experience with using family daycare. It's not like that with all providers.