Do I Respond? Did I Over-React?

[Unregistered]

I can't imagine it being ok in any state for a provider to leave with children without consent. Here, we have to have written consent--it's very specific as to which kinds of trips the parents consent to....school transportation, field trips, etc.

That's what I thought, but apparently there is a reasonable expectation for in home providers to run errands with the children. I expressed concern about that because I left the carseat with her everyday (for my husband to pick DS up afterwards) so who knows where my child had been. It's one thing to discuss with me and we come to an agreement, it's another to just tell me "this is how it's going to be." Which is completely unfair when there is no mention of it in her contract.

[Thriftylady]

Did you have a parent policy handbook and a contract? I know for me it is all spelled out in those items. And, I do have parents sign permission slips for walks to the park and such but I have my own stroller. I don't really allow parents to leave car seats, strollers and such on my property because I don't want to be responsible if something happens to them. I also never take the children in my vehicle unless I have permission from the parents for each and every trip, even then it is rare I just don't like to do it for various reasons one of which is liability. Some parents don't like having a contract and such, but I tell them it protects us both. We both know exactly what to expect from each other. Also to cut down on bringing stuff back and forth my kids have cubbies. So much easier. Perhaps that gives you some ideas what to look for in your next provider?

[AmyKidsCo]

I wouldn't contact her again, let it go and find someone else. Sorry it turned out so poorly and yes, from what you said here, it sounds like she's covering her tracks. If she was planning on that ahead of time she should have talked with you beforehand. It just doesn't make any sense.

I agree.

Since she's licensed I assume there were forms you had to complete to enroll your son - did any of them mention field trip? WI forms have a place to check permission (or not) for walking field trips and driving field trips. At the very least I'd think she'd need a permission slip.

[Heidi]

I agree.

Since she's licensed I assume there were forms you had to complete to enroll your son - did any of them mention field trip? WI forms have a place to check permission (or not) for walking field trips and driving field trips. At the very least I'd think she'd need a permission slip.

Yes! I imagined that CA has similar forms. Honestly, OP may not even remember, because if CA's forms are like WI, there is a lot to fill out, and so many forms.

OP-Here, we WOULD get cited for taking your child out without your permission. However, you give permission by filling out the enrollment form and checking the "yes" box. If anyone checked the "No" box, my program would not be a good fit, because I do occasionally take kids out, if conditions are right (group size, age, etc).

I think this person acted unreasonably, it sounds like. I realize there are two sides to every story, but I think it sounds like she should be refunding you your money. She's already said she won't, so unfortunately, you'll just probably write it off.

I'm sorry this happened to you; it's usually the other way around, but sometimes parents get stung, too.

[Unregistered]

No forms about leaving the house that I saw, I have a copy of everything, went through it twice.

DH just said don't respond so I won't, I guess no point in worrying about burning bridges with someone I probably wouldn't even use at this point. If my DS were older and could talk MAYBE, but there are many daycares in our area anyways. Luckily I don't need anyone now because my mom and MIL are both retired.

[Thriftylady]

Well sometimes you have to let things go. I guess you learned something for next time.

[cheerfuldom]

I agree that this person was unprofessional at best, shady at worst. I cannot believe that an established, reputable person is requiring you to provide basic supplies for your child.

In the future, I would absolutely be up front about your expectations with your provider. She should have outlined all this in her contract but on the other hand, this is your child and your responsibility to ask the right questions. I do think you should get a refund but you probably wont. I am sorry you had such a bad experience.

[childcaremom]

Well, just to play devil's advocate.

She was a drop in. I wouldn't nec. have extra supplies for a drop in on hand. I provide all equipment but I know many providers in my area don't.

I think communication is the big thing. The provider asked for a stroller.... I'm assuming so they could get out. Mom didn't want to lug it or didn't want child being taken out? Seems both were reasons (both valid). However, by requesting the stroller, I would assume that a convo would or should have taken place about expectations of outings. Provider should have clearly stated that she expected to be mobile and mom should have clearly stated that she didn't want her child taken off premises. It seems right here that it was not a good fit for either.

She should def. have spoken to you by phone. Not relied on email. Seems like a sneaky way to get out of the house with child.

And the time? Well I have been there with a dcf. My clock = correct time.

Mom, I think you've lived and learned. I'm sorry you had this experience but you will know what to look for next time.

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm sorry you had this experience as well. I'm in CA and even though there is no regulations about transportation, outings etc. I still have policies which clarify what outings I take and the method of transportation I provide. I not only want to make sure that the parents know what my expectations for them are but I also want them to know what to expect from me so I cover everything from supplies to activities.

In CA licensing pretty much only covers health and safety issues and leaves it up to us to decide how to conduct our businesses on all other aspects. Some providers are more lax and laid-back and others are more thorough with their communication and policies.

Personally I would have just refunded your money. My reputation, reliability and future business rely on good business practices and had I failed to communicate properly with a client I would have rather refunded the money, apologized, wished her luck and hoped she would still refer me. Just MPO.

[Unregistered]

Yes it's unfortunate, I haven't responded to her email, but would you?

Sadly I'd have loved to continue using her, but the fact she hasn't even apologized I guess it just means she'd be difficult to work with later on as well. I still can't see how if my DS is the only child that day, and supposedly the whole purpose of going to the shop was to take pictures of my DS, why she didn't stay until DS and I arrived. I work in law enforcement, I'm usually pretty good at spotting when a person is lying, and this screams of lying to me.

I've found another drop in daycare that I will be calling tomorrow to check out.

I am definitely amenable to discussing DS being taken out of the home, I just don't like someone saying "be here at this time."

[Play Care]

I wouldn't. She's not going to budge and you don't want to waste time going tit for tat, so to speak.
I do think this was a great learning experience and now you have more questions you can ask when you go to the interview with the next child care.

On a side note, I left the only day care I ever used after a week, once I found out that she had taken my 5 month old in the car to a city about 45 minutes away from our town so she could grocery shop. I had no idea they were going anywhere that day, and certainly not out of town in my case I would never have brought her that day had I been told the plan (we were in the midst of weaning in) so I completely sympathize with you.

[cheerfuldom]

Well, just to play devil's advocate.

She was a drop in. I wouldn't nec. have extra supplies for a drop in on hand. I provide all equipment but I know many providers in my area don't.

I think communication is the big thing. The provider asked for a stroller.... I'm assuming so they could get out. Mom didn't want to lug it or didn't want child being taken out? Seems both were reasons (both valid). However, by requesting the stroller, I would assume that a convo would or should have taken place about expectations of outings. Provider should have clearly stated that she expected to be mobile and mom should have clearly stated that she didn't want her child taken off premises. It seems right here that it was not a good fit for either.

She should def. have spoken to you by phone. Not relied on email. Seems like a sneaky way to get out of the house with child.

And the time? Well I have been there with a dcf. My clock = correct time.

Mom, I think you've lived and learned. I'm sorry you had this experience but you will know what to look for next time.

yeah but the OP said no other children where in attendance yet the provider was still requiring equipment from the mom? and talking about an assistant being there? that all didnt make sense.

[MarinaVanessa]

Yes it's unfortunate, I haven't responded to her email, but would you?

Sadly I'd have loved to continue using her, but the fact she hasn't even apologized I guess it just means she'd be difficult to work with later on as well. I still can't see how if my DS is the only child that day, and supposedly the whole purpose of going to the shop was to take pictures of my DS, why she didn't stay until DS and I arrived. I work in law enforcement, I'm usually pretty good at spotting when a person is lying, and this screams of lying to me.

I've found another drop in daycare that I will be calling tomorrow to check out.

I am definitely amenable to discussing DS being taken out of the home, I just don't like someone saying "be here at this time."

I don't think she's failing to refund your money or failing to apologize to you because she's being difficult. I honestly don't think she feels she's in the wrong.

Based on the information that you have given us it sounds like (to me) like she's used to families completely trusting her and being more flexible with drop off locations, outings and transportation. I'm much the same way ... I plan my day how I see fit based on my clients scheduled drop off and pick up times and between those times I come and go from my home when, if and where I wish (within town). BUT I explain that to my clients up front before they even sign a contract.

I think that she should have communicated her outings and transportation with you but that's just my opinion, I'm sure she doesn't feel the same.

Also (playing devils advocate here too) it's pretty normal for a provider to go on outings that don't involve vehicle transportation. Child care providers often take their daycare kids on walks and some do require a parent to provide a stroller and other supplies. She asked you several times to provide a stroller and instead of talking to her about how it was cumbersome for you to carry one back and forth or about how you didn't feel comfortable with the idea of outings you simply ignored her request completely.

At that point she was probably thinking that you're not organized or simply don't care about what she's asking of you (don't take her seriously) and when the incident with her not being home happened she probably then thought that you're now just being difficult (I would have thought the same thing really had I not known your point of view). Reality is perception so her perception of what happened is probably completely different than what you perceive happened and you both think you're in the right.

I don't know her personally so I can't say whether she'd be difficult to work with after this or not and I can't tell you whether or not to respond to her again but I will say that there definitely was a lack of miscommunication on both ends and I think there's a slim chance of her wanting to hear you out and refund your money if she has already denied you that already. I also doubt she'd apologize if that's what you're looking for.

But good luck in any case. It's too bad that this is your first family child care experience but hopefully your next one is better. Keep us posted

[KidGrind]

I called licensing because my mom used to run an in-home daycare for over 10 years (95-07) and she told me I should tell them what happened. Calling the licensing was also for my own information, it helped me to learn that in-home providers CAN take children out on errands and so on without written parent permission. My mom said the rules must have changed because she always had to make sure she had written permission from the parents to take kids outside the home.

I partly feel bad for calling (even though nothing is happening and she'll probably never know) and I'm sad this all went down this way. This could have been completely avoided if she'd just called me and discussed with me and my husband about taking our son out. I think I'd have been more amenable to her taking him out if it was a request and not a demand "Meet me at x donut shop at 9 am, bring his stroller," and I really didn't need the snark of her sentence "I had no idea that my judgement was under such scrutiny." Of course your judgement is under scrutiny! I'm giving you the most important responsibility in the world IMO. Am I misreading what she's saying? I copied that sentence from her email word for word.

I feel like she took no personal responsibility for what happened at all. Not an "I'm sorry I should have called you to confirm you got the message, I should have stayed until you arrived or I heard from you."

You are mostly right Laurel, lugging back and forth a stroller is a pain, it's already hard enough to bring to her place (upstairs) 2 bags, a carseat, and my DS. Not to mention I live upstairs so each day I have to bring down all that stuff. Also, as much as I trusted her, I didn't think for just two days a week for a 6.5 hour shift it was that necessary for her to take him out. If I were there 5 days a week full time I could have worked something out with her, gotten a cheap used stroller, something, but for 5 drop in days over 3 weeks where my son was the only child there it just didn't seem that important.

The time I used was on my cellphone, I don't know what time she used. But regardless she should have stayed, her other policy is once you hit half an hour late then you are an unexcused absence, I was definitely not even that close to being that late! As it is I don't believe she left at 9:10, I believe she was gone before 9 am as she told me to be at the donut shop at 9 am. So even if I had gotten there at 9 am I'm sure she or her "assistant" would not have been there.

BTW there was nothing in the contract about taking the kids out. If there had been we could have discussed it at the time. I read over it again with a fine tooth comb and the closest thing to going out could have been about doing activities with the kids, to me that's arts and crafts at home or something.

Thanks for all your input. This is my first time using a daycare provider so I've learned quite a bit from this experience. I also agree once the relationship turns sour it's best to go your separate ways.

I don’t understand parents who drop off their children with people they do not trust. When she asked for the stroller at that time as a mother I would’ve said (in your position), “I am not comfortable with you leaving your home with me son.”

You would’ve given a provider like myself the opportunity to say, “It’s unfortunate you feel this way. I only work with clients who trust me with their children. One client does not dictate how I operate my program. I can no longer offer you childcare services."

[Thriftylady]

I don’t understand parents who drop off their children with people they do not trust. When she asked for the stroller at that time as a mother I would’ve said (in your position), “I am not comfortable with you leaving your home with me son.”

You would’ve given a provider like myself the opportunity to say, “It’s unfortunate you feel this way. I only work with clients who trust me with their children. One client does not dictate how I operate my program. I can no longer offer you childcare services."

I guess I am reading it differently. I am reading that she trusted the provider, but that it was a hassle to provide the stroller and all. Part of that I get, as I think it is my job to find a stroller, they are plentiful second hand. But I would suggest to any parent to have a car seat for each vehicle, first it is easier second I just don't have room to store them for everyone. Beyond that, I think it was just a lack of communication. I as a provider may legally be able to take the kids out without permission of parents, (legally unlicensed but operate mostly like I did in KS where I was licensed.), but I wouldn't dream of doing it. My biggest suggestion to any parent is make sure your provider has a handbook AND a contract with all the major things that could be questioned in it. That way if there are questions, it is right there in black and white.