Demanding Infant

[Unregistered]

I'm not a daycare provider. Rather I'm the parent of a 4 mo old who just started daycare last week. She has always been a very demanding child - wanting lots of attention and entertainment, and hating to be put down. We've been trying for a while to get her more used to putting her down and self-entertaining, but she doesn't really take to it much. It's hard to just let her cry, even with smoothing, especially because she's before the 6 month mark where people talk about that working. My wife may be a bit more of a softy than me, but it's not easy for me either.

This is making daycare harder on her, on us (esp my wife), and on the people who work there.

Everything (well almost everything) you read in parenting books and website says "you can't spoil a baby, you can't spoil a baby, you can't spoil a baby". "If they cry, comfort them, it's good for their development and self-confidence". "Being left to try can undermine their sense of self", etc. Or maybe it's just what I read, but I'm talking about major sites/books, like What to Expect, Baby Center, Baby411, etc. I feel mislead!! (I think?) Okay, maybe you can't make them a spoiled kid? But it sure seems you can set them up for getting 'accustomed to' unreasonable expectations?

But I also realize that in daycare they can't hold her all the time, and she's going to need to learn to self-soothe and not have the constant attention of multiple adults. I don't want her to get the reputation as the screaming difficult baby that none of the workers like. When she's happy she's adorable, communicative (coo'ing, etc), and friendly. But neither do I want it to be traumatizing on her, even if she won't explictly remember it later. Last week she brokje a blood vessel in her eye (presumably crying).

Further, when she gets home from daycare she's exhausted, so it doesn't seem like a time to be training/teaching anything in the evenings.

From your point of view on the other end of the situation, what should I be doing as a parent to help both her and her infant care teachers? While still not feeling like/being a horrible parent to her?

[Michael]

Trust in the daycare provider you and your wife have chosen to care for your child. Your child will adapt although it may seem like she is struggling through separation anxiety in the short term.

[Heidi]

How and where does she sleep?

The single most determining factor #1 for her success at daycare is that she is able to sleep alone, on her back, without being rocked or held or in a swing, and long enough to get restorative sleep.

If that happens, the rest will fall in to place. If she's sleeping independently, she'll be happier awake, kwim?

So, make her sleep routines at home as much like at daycare as you can, and it will help her tremendously.


The broken blood vessel leads me to believe that she's crying excessively. I have had some pretty intense kiddos here, but that's never happened. Maybe some of the other provider's have other experiences with that.

[Unregistered]

She sleeps alone, on her back, but needs to be (at least one of the following): held/rocked/pacifier-ed to sleep. The only way for her to fall sleep without objection is to do all of them. Do one of them and she'll cry herself to sleep after several minutes. You can put her down just as she dozes off, she'll awake and often object briefly, but if you give her a pacifier she'll doze back off.
(*Most* of the time... again, my wife had a tendency to hold her to nap at least once a day or so... it was a long time before I got her to the point of not holding her for most of her naps).

That is actually a *vast* improvement. A handful of weeks ago, you had to sneak her into her crib well asleep or she'd wake and start wailing.

She is also however, a catnapper. A long nap is an hourish. Yesterday she did 45 min in the morning and an hour in the afternoon and that was a great day (plus a couple shorter ones - most are half an hourish - usually one sleep cycle). She often wakes up unhappy.

She has not yet learned to self-soothe. If you put her down awake, she'll cry. Soothing - short of a pacifier or picking up - has no effect. You can stand there rubbing her head, and shushing her, and holder her hand, for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and she just wails, arches her back and thrashes around (I don't really think it's a sign of reflux... just her own little tantrum. Sometimes she's fine being on her back, when she's already in a good mood, she can lay there and 'talk' with you and smile... so it's not like back=cry all the time)

I've been trying to work on this for months - esp the last month - and have made some, but modest-at-best, progress.

Everything (almost everything?) I read say crying-it-out is inappropriate before 6 months. I know it would hurt my wife to do it even then, but I don't think we should do it even yet.


I do trust the daycare. It's a high quality national brand and a very nice local franchise. But her main caretaker is actually telling us we shouldn't pick her up as much at home. I'm willing to consider it, but I wanted to hear opinions from others as well if that made sense, or what we should be doing/not doing.

[Unregistered]

Three more things...
1) The daycare provider has been fine holding and pacifiering her to sleep. Their sleep logs mirror what we experience at home (a little better even - although we wonder if they're counting settling down time). So she's (reportedly) sleeping. It's just when she's awake that's the problem.

2) I don't think it's 'separation anxiety' per say. She's perfectly happy to be dropped off. She's fine being cared for/watched by our parents as well. I don't think she's old enough to really 'miss us', as long as she's being cared for. I think it's 'not being coddled' anxiety. I just don't know what a healthy way is to make her less dependent.

3) Yes, she's pretty intense when she cries/screams. I'm not sure the provided noticed the red spot, so it's possible it did happen to you and you didn't notice .

[Thriftylady]

Experienced mother and provider here. And my grandson is ten months and has been "raised" as you mention. You CAN spoil a baby. To the point I have refused to keep my grandson anymore unless they bring him to me at least three days a week so he can learn that he can't always be picked up, entertained, air-planed, sang to, played with every time he whimpers. Last time I had him, he did nothing but cry for five hours. I had to let him cry and yes it broke my heart, and yes it breaks my heart that I had to put my foot down. But I just can't do it. Please work with your child at home, and trust your provider to work with you child there. They can learn the differences between two places, even at a very young age. Kuddos to you for realizing it is an issue and I think you can solve it with your open mind!

ETA at that age, I would happily give the pacifier.

[Cradle2crayons]

She sleeps alone, on her back, but needs to be (at least one of the following): held/rocked/pacifier-ed to sleep. The only way for her to fall sleep without objection is to do all of them. Do one of them and she'll cry herself to sleep after several minutes. You can put her down just as she dozes off, she'll awake and often object briefly, but if you give her a pacifier she'll doze back off.
(*Most* of the time... again, my wife had a tendency to hold her to nap at least once a day or so... it was a long time before I got her to the point of not holding her for most of her naps).

That is actually a *vast* improvement. A handful of weeks ago, you had to sneak her into her crib well asleep or she'd wake and start wailing.

She is also however, a catnapper. A long nap is an hourish. Yesterday she did 45 min in the morning and an hour in the afternoon and that was a great day (plus a couple shorter ones - most are half an hourish - usually one sleep cycle). She often wakes up unhappy.

She has not yet learned to self-soothe. If you put her down awake, she'll cry. Soothing - short of a pacifier or picking up - has no effect. You can stand there rubbing her head, and shushing her, and holder her hand, for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and she just wails, arches her back and thrashes around (I don't really think it's a sign of reflux... just her own little tantrum. Sometimes she's fine being on her back, when she's already in a good mood, she can lay there and 'talk' with you and smile... so it's not like back=cry all the time)

I've been trying to work on this for months - esp the last month - and have made some, but modest-at-best, progress.

Everything (almost everything?) I read say crying-it-out is inappropriate before 6 months. I know it would hurt my wife to do it even then, but I don't think we should do it even yet.


I do trust the daycare. It's a high quality national brand and a very nice local franchise. But her main caretaker is actually telling us we shouldn't pick her up as much at home. I'm willing to consider it, but I wanted to hear opinions from others as well if that made sense, or what we should be doing/not doing.

One thing I'm noticing here is you mention tht she doesn't nap very long at a time and she wakes unhappy which I'm assuming means she isn't getting restorative sleep.

In my experience that is the definition of Baby who is held or entertained to sleep. The. What happens is as they arouse wake, they need to be held or entertained back to sleep. Which means they are not getting adequate sleep.

What needs to happen is she needs to be put to bed wide awake. She shouldn't be allowed to fall sleep in a swing, bouncer, or anything else.

Until she can learn to go to sleep alone and stay asleep alone, she isn't going to get good sleep. And she isn't going to do great at dycare.

She's tired when you pick her up because the daycare workers can't entertain every infant to sleep. So she's allowed to cry some there. Which is understandable in group care.

They may be trying to help her self soothe but as long as y'all are entertaining her to sleep, it just isn't going to go well.

[Thriftylady]

One thing I'm noticing here is you mention tht she doesn't nap very long at a time and she wakes unhappy which I'm assuming means she isn't getting restorative sleep.

In my experience that is the definition of Baby who is held or entertained to sleep. The. What happens is as they arouse wake, they need to be held or entertained back to sleep. Which means they are not getting adequate sleep.

What needs to happen is she needs to be put to bed wide awake. She shouldn't be allowed to fall sleep in a swing, bouncer, or anything else.

Until she can learn to go to sleep alone and stay asleep alone, she isn't going to get good sleep. And she isn't going to do great at dycare.

She's tired when you pick her up because the daycare workers can't entertain every infant to sleep. So she's allowed to cry some there. Which is understandable in group care.

They may be trying to help her self soothe but as long as y'all are entertaining her to sleep, it just isn't going to go well.

Agree 100 percent. And the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. She will change from a demanding infant to a demanding toddler. This isn't natural, it is taught.

[Heidi]

She sleeps alone, on her back, but needs to be (at least one of the following): held/rocked/pacifier-ed to sleep. The only way for her to fall sleep without objection is to do all of them. Do one of them and she'll cry herself to sleep after several minutes. You can put her down just as she dozes off, she'll awake and often object briefly, but if you give her a pacifier she'll doze back off.
(*Most* of the time... again, my wife had a tendency to hold her to nap at least once a day or so... it was a long time before I got her to the point of not holding her for most of her naps).

That is actually a *vast* improvement. A handful of weeks ago, you had to sneak her into her crib well asleep or she'd wake and start wailing.

She is also however, a catnapper. A long nap is an hourish. Yesterday she did 45 min in the morning and an hour in the afternoon and that was a great day (plus a couple shorter ones - most are half an hourish - usually one sleep cycle). She often wakes up unhappy.

She has not yet learned to self-soothe. If you put her down awake, she'll cry. Soothing - short of a pacifier or picking up - has no effect. You can stand there rubbing her head, and shushing her, and holder her hand, for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and she just wails, arches her back and thrashes around (I don't really think it's a sign of reflux... just her own little tantrum. Sometimes she's fine being on her back, when she's already in a good mood, she can lay there and 'talk' with you and smile... so it's not like back=cry all the time)

I've been trying to work on this for months - esp the last month - and have made some, but modest-at-best, progress.

Everything (almost everything?) I read say crying-it-out is inappropriate before 6 months. I know it would hurt my wife to do it even then, but I don't think we should do it even yet.


I do trust the daycare. It's a high quality national brand and a very nice local franchise. But her main caretaker is actually telling us we shouldn't pick her up as much at home. I'm willing to consider it, but I wanted to hear opinions from others as well if that made sense, or what we should be doing/not doing.

CIO is something I actually only use with MUCH older infants if all else fails. So, yes, she is too young. But, lets clarify what CIO is: Putting a child to bed, saying good night, and then leaving them to cry, regardless of how long it takes. Honestly, if you take your baby now, and fast-forward 6 months, you MAY be in a position where you have no other choice. Let's try something else.

She is used to falling asleep with physical contact, motion, and a pacifier. That's THREE things she is convinced she needs to go to sleep. Does she NEED them? Probably not...but she certainly thinks she does!

Here is what I would do (and have done with countless babies).

1. Set up a sleep routine. (Bath, bottle), snuggle in her quiet, mostly dark room. Sing the same song each night (make one up or use a classic), then sit silently with her as she calms and relaxes (no longer than 10 minutes at first...shorten later). Keep the movement to a minimum.

2. Lay her in her bed, quietly say "nighty night", tuck her in, give her paci, and walk out. Wait 5 minutes while she makes a horrendous, indignant fuss.

3. Go in (turn off lights in hallway if they're on). Pat her tummy for a minute or so, replace paci, quietly say night night, and walk out. Now, wait 7 minutes.

Rinse and repeat, extending the time between "visits" each time. You want to let her know you're there, you love her, you support her, but she CAN do this. You're going to have to do that about 3000 more times in the next 18 years.

Tell the daycare what you are doing so they can do the same.

Once she learns to fall asleep alone, she will be a way happier baby. I KNOW this. Well rested babies equal content babies.

One morning, you will wake up, and realize she not only slept through the night, but she's in her bed, wide awake, talking to herself. Imagine!

I don't know how many times in the last 24 years I've said this: If you don't get her sleeping independently now, you won't do it when she's 6 months old either. Then, imagine she can sit up, screaming to the heavens in outrage. Now, imagine her 9 months old, STANDING in her crib, again outraged. Will you (or dear wife) be able to let her cry then? After all, she could fall and bump her head!

See where it's leading? How about a 2 year old that can climb out?

You are really setting a precedent here. You can do it lovingly and gently and kindly and respectfully now, or you can call "super nanny" in a few years when you have 3 kiddos running amok. ::

Oh...one more thing. If you want her to use a pacifier (I'm pro-pacifier myself), then teach her how to get it in her mouth. Hold it out in front of her, and say "use your hands" until she grasps it. Then, help her put it in her own mouth. It'll probably take a few weeks yet, but if you teach her how, she can use this skill at naps or at night. We used to "sprinkle" several in our babies beds. As tummy sleepers (years ago), they could already find them by 2 months or so. It takes a little longer with back-sleeping, but eventually you'll be out of the loop there.

[Heidi]

Agree 100 percent. And the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. She will change from a demanding infant to a demanding toddler. This isn't natural, it is taught.

One thing I'm noticing here is you mention tht she doesn't nap very long at a time and she wakes unhappy which I'm assuming means she isn't getting restorative sleep.

In my experience that is the definition of Baby who is held or entertained to sleep. The. What happens is as they arouse wake, they need to be held or entertained back to sleep. Which means they are not getting adequate sleep.

What needs to happen is she needs to be put to bed wide awake. She shouldn't be allowed to fall sleep in a swing, bouncer, or anything else.

Until she can learn to go to sleep alone and stay asleep alone, she isn't going to get good sleep. And she isn't going to do great at dycare.

She's tired when you pick her up because the daycare workers can't entertain every infant to sleep. So she's allowed to cry some there. Which is understandable in group care.

They may be trying to help her self soothe but as long as y'all are entertaining her to sleep, it just isn't going to go well.

yep, yep, yep!

If you spend much time reading these boards, you can see this "ain't our first rodeo". In the daycare biz, we see this a lot!

[Leigh]

One thing I'm noticing here is you mention tht she doesn't nap very long at a time and she wakes unhappy which I'm assuming means she isn't getting restorative sleep.

In my experience that is the definition of Baby who is held or entertained to sleep. The. What happens is as they arouse wake, they need to be held or entertained back to sleep. Which means they are not getting adequate sleep.

What needs to happen is she needs to be put to bed wide awake. She shouldn't be allowed to fall sleep in a swing, bouncer, or anything else.

Until she can learn to go to sleep alone and stay asleep alone, she isn't going to get good sleep. And she isn't going to do great at dycare.

She's tired when you pick her up because the daycare workers can't entertain every infant to sleep. So she's allowed to cry some there. Which is understandable in group care.

They may be trying to help her self soothe but as long as y'all are entertaining her to sleep, it just isn't going to go well.

[Unregistered]

Here is what I would do (and have done with countless babies).

1. Set up a sleep routine. (Bath, bottle), snuggle in her quiet, mostly dark room. Sing the same song each night (make one up or use a classic), then sit silently with her as she calms and relaxes (no longer than 10 minutes at first...shorten later). Keep the movement to a minimum.

2. Lay her in her bed, quietly say "nighty night", tuck her in, give her paci, and walk out. Wait 5 minutes while she makes a horrendous, indignant fuss.

3. Go in (turn off lights in hallway if they're on). Pat her tummy for a minute or so, replace paci, quietly say night night, and walk out.

I didn't mean to get into technicalities here of "cry it out" vs Feberizing.

What you describe is exactly how I understand Feberizing, aka: "gradual extinction" to work. Correct?

If so I'll repeat my statement that I've read that Feberizing isn't appropriate until they are developmentally ready, which may not be until 6 months. Isn't this too early??

[Thriftylady]

This is only to early if you don't mind having the same issue in six months or a year or two years. NO it isn't to early. It will be far easier on everyone if you do it now. It sounds like you are over thinking this and trying to be a perfect parent. While I applaud you for wanting to be a good parent, keep in mind that the perfect one doesn't exist. It sounds to me like you are having fears over this whole sleep thing. We love kids and wouldn't ask you to mistreat one, but perhaps you would feel better if you went to the doctor and discussed it with them. They will likely tell you just what we are, but it may make you feel better. Also keep in mind that researching and reading books is great, but every child is different and books can't account for that.

[Heidi]

I didn't mean to get into technicalities here of "cry it out" vs Feberizing.

What you describe is exactly how I understand Feberizing, aka: "gradual extinction" to work. Correct?

If so I'll repeat my statement that I've read that Feberizing isn't appropriate until they are developmentally ready, which may not be until 6 months. Isn't this too early??

No, I don't think it's too early. As long as you are gentle about it.

Babies are born with the ability to fall asleep. That part is not a learned skill. Your LO has learned she needs lots of help to fall asleep. She is competent to do this; you just have to help her get there and trust her.

You, as a parent, can decide that it's just too early, or feels to harsh. But, it's a trade off. She cries less for you, but at daycare, where they can't replicate one-on-one (or two-on-one, for that matter) care, she's crying MORE.

[Unregistered]

Yep!

Either way, there is training going on.
We can train them in to a healthy, workable pattern, that results in a healthy happy, well-rested baby.
Or they can train us to let them take a long time to go to sleep with many nighttime wakings, resulting in eventual lack of sleep for everyone.
From birth we are helping them form patterns. It's just that sometimes they realize it before we do.