Paying Full Tuition When the Daycare Closes for a Snow Day...Is This Fair?

[daycarediva]

The decision should be made based on whether the inclement weather prohibits or delays access to emergency services. Can 911 be called in an emergency and arrive in the same amount of time as regular weather.

If emergency services are overworked because of the weather it isn't safe to have a house full of kids who have little chance of accessing services while the others are being normally cared for.

The second concern is if staff can arrive on time and have their child care needs met.

Next, can the provider keep her property safe for arrivals and departures? A provider inside with kids can't keep the outside safe.
A center may not have access to their normal plowers in a huge snow event. Many providers have been stuck with kids while their parents are stuck in their driveway or street or on the way to pick them up. Many providers have had parents get stuck in their driveway and blocked it off for other incoming parents.

Then the odds that parents can get back to pick.up on TIME? Is there staff available to care for kids if parents are delayed?

The money is easy. Centers and providers just need to build closure days into their contract. If the average closures are five a year then build five into the contract. If they aren't used then the parents get a few days of care they didn't pay for over the course of a year. If they exceed five them refunds are issued for the sixth and over days for parents that have actually used the five days.

My experience is that most parents will call into work because of the drive but drive their kid to care so they can have a me day and an excuse if they are late. It's a pretty rare parent who will keep their kid home even if the weather is REALLY really dangerous.

Some will... but most won't.

My state licensing agency actually recommends we have a plan in place to CLOSE when there is severe weather. It IS a safety issue. I am legally required to keep two egresses clear of snow/safe to use. What if emergency services are delayed? What if (and this happened to me---) I get stuck with a a kid when roads are impassable?

Every state of emergency I close, with pay. It's in the contract parents sign. I have NEVER had a parent question it.

[Mad_Pistachio]

The decision should be made based on whether the inclement weather prohibits or delays access to emergency services. Can 911 be called in an emergency and arrive in the same amount of time as regular weather.

If emergency services are overworked because of the weather it isn't safe to have a house full of kids who have little chance of accessing services while the others are being normally cared for.

The second concern is if staff can arrive on time and have their child care needs met.

Next, can the provider keep her property safe for arrivals and departures? A provider inside with kids can't keep the outside safe.
A center may not have access to their normal plowers in a huge snow event. Many providers have been stuck with kids while their parents are stuck in their driveway or street or on the way to pick them up. Many providers have had parents get stuck in their driveway and blocked it off for other incoming parents.

Then the odds that parents can get back to pick.up on TIME? Is there staff available to care for kids if parents are delayed?

My experience is that most parents will call into work because of the drive but drive their kid to care so they can have a me day and an excuse if they are late. It's a pretty rare parent who will keep their kid home even if the weather is REALLY really dangerous.

Some will... but most won't.

see, as a parent, I have not thought about it this way. you are right: if my child needs emergency services, and they are unable to get there in a timely manner, that puts not only my child in danger, but the provider into a pretty sticky situation. not that I mind the daycare closing on a snow day, but those aspects just did not cross my mind because I have not really been on that side of the fence.

we had 4" today. our daycare was open. I kept our daughter home. because I could, and because I do not see a point of trying to make 2 trips 15 miles away in this weather when I don't really have to. we had fun: she made snow angels and shot me up with snowballs

[Unregistered]

Seriously??

What it boils down to is you are paying for the SPOT and the SPOT only! You are not paying for attendance...you should have read the contract! It is silly to sign the contract (reading it or not) and then go and complain about it! If you are so unhappy go find a daycare that you can pay for attendance.

I am a family daycare and I will be closing tomorrow due to a nasty storm coming in. I will not remain open because of the parents.

You have parents who will risk their child's life in 30" of snow just so they can go back home and have a day off without their child. Meanwhile it is pouring the snow here and you decide to wait till 5:00 to come get your child and what do you know, you cannot get to daycare. Do you know how many times parents have been hours and hours past closing because they risk taking their child out in the snow. And I even had one stuck over night with me. Their bill was well into the thousands and I never saw a penny!

So honestly, you have NO RIGHT to fuss about a contract when you did sign it!!!!

Next time READ it and avoid all these complaints

[Febby]

see, as a parent, I have not thought about it this way. you are right: if my child needs emergency services, and they are unable to get there in a timely manner, that puts not only my child in danger, but the provider into a pretty sticky situation. not that I mind the daycare closing on a snow day, but those aspects just did not cross my mind because I have not really been on that side of the fence.

we had 4" today. our daycare was open. I kept our daughter home. because I could, and because I do not see a point of trying to make 2 trips 15 miles away in this weather when I don't really have to. we had fun: she made snow angels and shot me up with snowballs

I'm not sure where in my state you are, but we had about the same snowfall. My class had a lot of absences, but about 70% of the center's children showed up on Wednesday (1/20), including several school teachers' children. Schools were closed, of course. We had plenty of staff, but there were a couple other centers, including one big one, that had to turn parents away due to lack of staff.

[Mad_Pistachio]

I'm not sure where in my state you are, but we had about the same snowfall. My class had a lot of absences, but about 70% of the center's children showed up on Wednesday (1/20), including several school teachers' children. Schools were closed, of course. We had plenty of staff, but there were a couple other centers, including one big one, that had to turn parents away due to lack of staff.

I'm in Louisville. and no, we are not teachers (my DH is software developer at a small bank chain, and I am a jobless student). what happened was, since my classes are all online this semester, I could manage my time enough to not fall behind, and this let me keep our daughter home. if the daycare was really close, she could have gone... or not. with it being 3 freeways away, I just did not feel like driving through the snow.
the daycare is relatively small, with the capacity of 49, and the director is always there (7 people on staff, including part-timers). most of the time, they are open. I think, once a year they do get into a pickle with the weather and have to close (we enrolled in May 2014, and this is the second closure due to weather).
my logic usually is, I don't absolutely have to go anywhere, so why not use this luxury and keep a child home when I don't trust the weather, the roads, and the drivers around me. I am in a much better position than, say, an emergency room doctor, who needs to be at work, come hell or high waters (used to work for one; never envied her money).

I can imagine something like Sacred Heart (it's the only huge one I know of) turning parents away because there is not enough staff. it is probably not an issue with our place.

[grateday]

been a while

This is a great thread. I especially liked the part about the licensor saying providers should have a weather related policy in place, I like the person that stated that when you are on your own it is almost impossible to keep the driveways safe, accessible while maintaining the safety of the children (so true). Also the provider who made the comment about extending hours so parents can try to get unstuck from weather related situations.

The comment about the president discussing the horrible financial situation that some providers are in is relevant. Some are really good at managing the business end of things and some could use some work, or are in a poor area.

As a former provider who went back to work and listened to the stories of single mothers. It is and can be a sad situation for them. I talked to some of those mothers and discussed some of the programs that are available to them to help them out financially and they were very thankful for the information. They did not know that the programs existed. Even with the state assistance single parents are still paying what they believe is too much for childcare. I don't really know the budgets that these single parents are trying to live on but I can tell you that providers need to earn a living and be able to pay for the expenses of running a childcare and their own living expenses. This is an issue. Parents with multiple younger children also have financial issues paying for childcare as well. Providers who give too many breaks have financial issues as well.

Providers need to be able to have money to cover extra unseen expenses that happen in childcares as well. Broken items, damaged items, bedbugs, headlice, replacement flooring, repairing damaged walls, etc.

[Unregistered]

$1,500 a month profit! WOW....I need to change jobs. I'd be dancing all the way to the bank if I could, after all expenses....place $1500/month in a savings account.

Seriously, it baffles me that parents can be this silly. When your child goes to school (if private), you pay for the month. You don't ask for a prorated rate if your child is out for a week with the flu. The expenses of the school DO NOT CHANGE because your child isn't there. The only way a school OR daycare center (whether in a home or not) can operate is to have a minimum number of children they service/enroll and have them pay a specified number of days throughout the year. My staff gets paid for any days that we are closed that has nothing to do with them, as long as parents are paying in full. So, for the woman that worked in a center, be careful, you can only speak for yourself. Daycares are National and how staff is treated is going to vary. To hear someone say costs are "minimal" is almost like a slap in the face. Is your provider driving a Mercedes? Live in a mansion maybe? I bet not! LOL Seriously - only people that have NO IDEA about running a business and the work that goes into being a provider and the amount of money it actually costs get all bent out of shape! Only those that see us as "babysitters" instead of what we really are - preschool that are ALL DAY! Many months we're lucky to make $1,500 a month profit! I bet you make more than that! If your provider takes good care of your child (many for 9 and 10 and 11 hours a day!!) and your child is happy and healthy and learning...paying for a few snow days so that they can take the precaution of keeping everyone safe...well that's the least you can do. Otherwise, find a place that's open ALL the time - GOOD LUCK with that!

[Play Care]

$1,500 a month profit! WOW....I need to change jobs. I'd be dancing all the way to the bank if I could, after all expenses....place $1500/month in a savings account.

Wow! You have low standards!

That "profit" probably goes into things like retirement, and college. You know, so you're not eating cat food in your golden years.

[daycarediva]

$1,500 a month profit! WOW....I need to change jobs. I'd be dancing all the way to the bank if I could, after all expenses....place $1500/month in a savings account.

Uh, no. 1,500/ month profit after CHILD CARE EXPENSES (food, insurance, supplies) that would be a person's entire monthly salary. Not their SAVINGS.


1,500 is povery level here, it wouldn't even pay the mortgage on my modest home. "Dancing all the way to the bank" hardly.

[Mike]

Wow! You have low standards!

That "profit" probably goes into things like retirement, and college. You know, so you're not eating cat food in your golden years.

Old thread, but ya, I'm in my 50's and nothing saved up yet, so I just might be eating cat food when I retire. ::

[Leigh]

Uh, no. 1,500/ month profit after CHILD CARE EXPENSES (food, insurance, supplies) that would be a person's entire monthly salary. Not their SAVINGS.


1,500 is povery level here, it wouldn't even pay the mortgage on my modest home. "Dancing all the way to the bank" hardly.

Exactly. That profit pays for the portion of my mortgage that daycare doesn't cover, my family's groceries and medical expenses, clothing, gas, entertainment (HA! as if there is time for that!), school expenses, school transportation, utilities that daycare doesn't cover, car payment, insurance, etc. etc. That's salary. Anything that would be left could be saved, but no one making $1500 a month profit has money left to save.

[Unregistered]

Seriously, it baffles me that parents can be this silly. When your child goes to school (if private), you pay for the month. You don't ask for a prorated rate if your child is out for a week with the flu. The expenses of the school DO NOT CHANGE because your child isn't there. The only way a school OR daycare center (whether in a home or not) can operate is to have a minimum number of children they service/enroll and have them pay a specified number of days throughout the year. My staff gets paid for any days that we are closed that has nothing to do with them, as long as parents are paying in full. So, for the woman that worked in a center, be careful, you can only speak for yourself. Daycares are National and how staff is treated is going to vary. To hear someone say costs are "minimal" is almost like a slap in the face. Is your provider driving a Mercedes? Live in a mansion maybe? I bet not! LOL Seriously - only people that have NO IDEA about running a business and the work that goes into being a provider and the amount of money it actually costs get all bent out of shape! Only those that see us as "babysitters" instead of what we really are - preschool that are ALL DAY! Many months we're lucky to make $1,500 a month profit! I bet you make more than that! If your provider takes good care of your child (many for 9 and 10 and 11 hours a day!!) and your child is happy and healthy and learning...paying for a few snow days so that they can take the precaution of keeping everyone safe...well that's the least you can do. Otherwise, find a place that's open ALL the time - GOOD LUCK with that!

You might have a different attitude if you were the one that had to take a day off from work to stay home. Don't act like there aren't situations that aren't fair on both ends. My daycare provider just took three weeks off for maternity leave. A week before that she took her 2nd "paid vacation" of the year. We get two weeks "off" where we don't have to pay but who gets FOUR weeks of vacation every year!? So we have to take our week off when she takes hers.. there unfair advantages and disadvantages on both ends... but just because her town has a snow day doesn't mean someone's boss doesn't expect them to be at work

[Blackcat31]

You might have a different attitude if you were the one that had to take a day off from work to stay home. Don't act like there aren't situations that aren't fair on both ends. My daycare provider just took three weeks off for maternity leave. A week before that she took her 2nd "paid vacation" of the year. We get two weeks "off" where we don't have to pay but who gets FOUR weeks of vacation every year!? So we have to take our week off when she takes hers.. there unfair advantages and disadvantages on both ends... but just because her town has a snow day doesn't mean someone's boss doesn't expect them to be at work

Sounds like your provider has a great thing going!

It wouldn't be so successful if she couldn't get clients to agree but apparently she doesn't have that problem because you signed on and agreed to her having 4 week of vacation so that's on you not her.

[Play Care]

You might have a different attitude if you were the one that had to take a day off from work to stay home. Don't act like there aren't situations that aren't fair on both ends. My daycare provider just took three weeks off for maternity leave. A week before that she took her 2nd "paid vacation" of the year. We get two weeks "off" where we don't have to pay but who gets FOUR weeks of vacation every year!? So we have to take our week off when she takes hers.. there unfair advantages and disadvantages on both ends... but just because her town has a snow day doesn't mean someone's boss doesn't expect them to be at work

As a parent it wouldn't work for me if I had to find alternate care 4 weeks each year. I would pay more for the reliability of a good small center rather than deal with the stress of that much time off.
As a provider I tell people upfront I'm on a modified school calendar schedule. I've even declined potential clients who want to come here but I know they'd have an issue with my time off. I'd rather they be mad at not being chosen for a day than deal with attitude every time a week off comes up.

[Leigh]

You might have a different attitude if you were the one that had to take a day off from work to stay home. Don't act like there aren't situations that aren't fair on both ends. My daycare provider just took three weeks off for maternity leave. A week before that she took her 2nd "paid vacation" of the year. We get two weeks "off" where we don't have to pay but who gets FOUR weeks of vacation every year!? So we have to take our week off when she takes hers.. there unfair advantages and disadvantages on both ends... but just because her town has a snow day doesn't mean someone's boss doesn't expect them to be at work

Four weeks is not at all uncommon. My last job before daycare gave me 12 holidays, 6 weeks' vacation, personal days, and basically unlimited sick leave (I had a balance of over 2000 hours of sick leave when I left).

I HAVE been the one to take the day off and stay home when my daycare was closed. I didn't resent her for needing vacation (everyone does) or taking a sick day for her kids. I knew that part of having kids was taking care of them when their daycare could not. I never argued about paying-I agree that everyone deserves paid time off. I actually bothered her about raising her rates because I didn't think she was charging enough, and often gave her gift cards to use for daycare supplies because I felt guilty that I wasn't paying her enough.