Tweet
It always amazes me that people would never ask a private school for tuition back if they were going to be out, or if the school closed for a snow day. Last year I had a family that was going on two separate vacations, one 2 weeks and the other 3 weeks, and they wanted a tuition break since he wouldn't be in attendance. You would never ask a school for a break since you weren't there, and to me a private school is the closest thing to a compare to a daycare.
-
-
In know this comment is old but it made me pretty mad.{okay I broke down and got a user name
}
Okay, let's talk about that. What you're describing is a recurring charge that happens whether I use the service or not. For example, I have a monthly newspaper subscription. It would be ludicrous and unreasonable for me to call my newspaper provider and say, "I know you delivered the paper every day like you promised, but I only read it three times. So can I have my money back for the other 27 days?"
This is totally different. Let's look at MV's scenario: MV paid for a gym membership and was DENIED use of the gym for two days, but was charged for it anyway. Know what I'd be doing? (I know you know...) I'D BE COMPLAINING. It's not fair.
Maybe MV's contract is clear that if the roof falls in she still has to pay for the gym membership--I don't know. But that doesn't make it fair and it would probably cause her to look for another gym.
SilverSabre, you're likening it to a "spot held"...as in, almost like a club membership, but it's not the same thing.
I've really thought about this, and I've considered your scenario of a school situation, and I've decided that schools are far more justified in closing (i.e. CHOOSING not to perform the service that day) because they have kids waiting for the bus and they are actually transporting children. That doesn't really address if it's still fair for them to charge me, but it at least helps explain part of my beef, in that, why do these darn daycares close SO MUCH??? McDonald's isn't closed. The Post Office isn't closed. My corporation I work for isn't closed, but guess what...my DAYCARE is closed. WHY????
Oh! But my daycare transports kids! To kindergarten and such! Oh wait...but they DON'T do that when SCHOOL'S CLOSED (which is the only time daycare's also closed). So there goes that argument in their favor...
But to directly answer your question, yes I would feel different if it was a private Catholic school, and here's why (and I'll totally ignore the transportation issue I mention above):
1) I'm paying for an EDUCATION, NOT child care services. Snow day or not, they can probably *overall* prove that they are still providing my child with the good education I'm paying for, plus they'd point to the state laws and say, "We were in session this year the minimum amount we were required to be in session."
NET: I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR. (But when daycare is closed for snow, I DO NOT get what I paid for)
2) I don't pay "tuition". I pay by the week for child care. I should receive the child care I paid for or I shouldn't have to pay for it.
3) Finally, in order to provide an adequate education, the state determines how many days schools have to be in session (I'm assuming this applies to private schools too). So let's look at it another way. By state law let's say they have to be in school for a minimum of 200 days. Due to snow days (for which I still had to pay! *sob*) they only have been in school for 190 days. I'm guessing, that *if* I pay a yearly tuition and not weekly, and *if* that private school then has to extend their school year by adding TWO WEEKS to the end of the school year, I'm guessing I DO NOT get billed for that extra two weeks ON TOP of the yearly tuition I already paid. In other words....I *STILL* got what I paid for and I didn't have to pay any extra to get it.
And if we're looking at this as what I'm BUYING and what I'm GETTING, think about it this way. What if I bought a private high-school "education" for my child and that school CHOSE that year not to teach ANY MATH at all (because their math teacher quit! and it wasn't THEIR fault! and it would be challenging to find another math teacher! and they still have to pay their bills/other teachers/licences etc!) and I had to go to another private school or tutor and pay for my child to learn his/her math... Sound fair?
That's really what's happening when the daycare closes for snow. I paid for child care. I was refused child care. I had to buy child care from some other provider. And somehow this is supposed to be fair?
The part about if it's a private school your paying for education not childcare services. Do you think that we don't education your child? What a slap in the face! How about I just park your kid in front of the tv for the 10 hrs most kids are here and call it a day. I won't provided toys, I won't provide any art supplies, I won't teach them their letter, numbers, shapes or colors. Oh your kid needs to be potty trained not my problem cause that's TEACHING them to use the toilet. I won't TEACH them walk or talk. I won't TEACH them to be polite or use their manners. Who cares if a kid is hitting or kick, biting, or pushing. I'll just tell the parents it's not my job to teach them that I'm not an educator.
You just don't understand how much we do teach and educate your child and your comment just shows that you have no respect for us or what we do!Comment
-
still don't get it
After reading most of the comments from child care providers, I still don't get it it. I understand if a center with paid staff needs to close to keep their staff off the road, etc. Fine. If you are charging parents full tuition, then there is absolutely no excuse NOT to pay your staff for the snow day. All the arguments for charging tuition also apply to paying your staff a living wage for the unexpected closure. That's another issue about good labor practices.
This post is a plea to be discerning when you close down. Sounds like a lot of providers on this post are making assumptions about the relative wealth of their clients and their presumed level of disposable income.
My issue is that my home daycare provider is closing for two days when all forecasts are saying that this storm will be over by the end of tomorrow. Yes, public schools are closed. That's to keep buses off the road and protect kids from standing in snow banks while waiting for school buses. What does that have to do with my HOME daycare provider? She used to stay open for parents who needed the care, which is why people choose home daycare - it's more reliable in many ways. But now, she wants to follow center policies (they get to close -and I could sure use a day off). Guess I'll be looking for a center where my kids will be more stimulated anyways. (Really - they are getting really bored there). By the way, my provider does not have any children, etc, and works with her mother who also lives in the house. I chose her because I liked their family, facilities, and their promise that there would be few unexpected closures.
I'm a single divorced mother of two receiving nothing from dad. I don't get paid time off. I can't work from home when the 2 and 4 year old are home. (I am typing this at 3:30am as I take a break from some work I brought home). If I have to find alternate care, then I am paying twice - and paying more than I earn for a single day. Childcare providers should not take closures lightly. And stop talking about the contract. I expect to be home with the kids when it is truly unsafe to drive. I also expect to pay in these rare circumstances. I am expected to be at work when the roads are cleared. And I expect to be able to take my kids to daycare when there is no holiday or emergency road conditions. I'm paying for it.Comment
-
I'll tell you why, STATE REGULATIONS.
Many states ask that licensed care providers strongly consider closing when weather conditions makes road travel unsafe. Why? Because it's not enough for you to get your child TO day care, you need to be able to pick them up FROM day care should something come up (the provider loses power, your child becomes ill, or, heaven forbid gets injured while at day care) If, heaven forbid, something were to happen, and bad weather or road conditions were to cause a delay for parents or emergency services to get to the providers home, the state will go after the provider for TWO things 1. that a child was hurt in their care (even if it wasn't the providers fault, she's still in trouble...) and 2. Being open when conditions were not conducive to it. This means your provider could be shut down pending an investigation, or permanently.
(and this happened locally, so I'm not overreacting
)
This also means day care/homeowners insurance may not pay out for accidents/injuries caused on a bad weather day - if the snow/ice is coming down and I can't keep up with removal and a dck or dcp slips, falls and hurts themselves on my drive/walk I am LIABLE for any injuries they may suffer. If licensing says I shouldn't have been open anyway, you can bet insurance will get out of paying out
Just like a center, the in home provider (if she's a good one) has already purchased supplies for the day - food, craft material, other curriculum materials, etc. If she takes the day without pay, she may not be able to operate in the Black. This means eventually she has to close and get a "real" job that pays her bills, leaving clients in the lurch. Just like any business, the in home provider is doing this job to MAKE money.
The bottom line is that while the general population views in homes as "babysitters" who can set their own hours and policies, that simply isn't true if they are licensed. Both the state and insurance companies view licensed in homes as they businesses they are, and subject to the rules and regulations of the state. I can't say to licensing "I'm not going to follow this reg because it inconvenience my clients." A parent can't give a licensed provider permission to do the wrong thing.
It does sound as if you need a different care option, I know centers around here tend not to close for snow days, and hardly any holidays. That may be the better option for you. Or perhaps network with neighbors to see if any teens could babysit for the day when you have to work and dc is closed.
Since you know your providers policy and it doesn't work for you, it's not a good idea to stay and let things stew. Good luck!Comment
-
Also when a storm hits and there is a state of emergency declared people are not supposed to travel on the roads . So you are not supposed to be going to work or travel to get to daycare .
Last week I had someone have to walk the quarter mile down my unplowed road and then carry their child back the quarter mile to get to their car which was stuck at the side of the road .Comment
-
I'll tell you why, STATE REGULATIONS.
Many states ask that licensed care providers strongly consider closing when weather conditions makes road travel unsafe. Why? Because it's not enough for you to get your child TO day care, you need to be able to pick them up FROM day care should something come up (the provider loses power, your child becomes ill, or, heaven forbid gets injured while at day care) If, heaven forbid, something were to happen, and bad weather or road conditions were to cause a delay for parents or emergency services to get to the providers home, the state will go after the provider for TWO things 1. that a child was hurt in their care (even if it wasn't the providers fault, she's still in trouble...) and 2. Being open when conditions were not conducive to it. This means your provider could be shut down pending an investigation, or permanently.
(and this happened locally, so I'm not overreacting )
This also means day care/homeowners insurance may not pay out for accidents/injuries caused on a bad weather day - if the snow/ice is coming down and I can't keep up with removal and a dck or dcp slips, falls and hurts themselves on my drive/walk I am LIABLE for any injuries they may suffer. If licensing says I shouldn't have been open anyway, you can bet insurance will get out of paying out
Just like a center, the in home provider (if she's a good one) has already purchased supplies for the day - food, craft material, other curriculum materials, etc. If she takes the day without pay, she may not be able to operate in the Black. This means eventually she has to close and get a "real" job that pays her bills, leaving clients in the lurch. Just like any business, the in home provider is doing this job to MAKE money.
The bottom line is that while the general population views in homes as "babysitters" who can set their own hours and policies, that simply isn't true if they are licensed. Both the state and insurance companies view licensed in homes as they businesses they are, and subject to the rules and regulations of the state. I can't say to licensing "I'm not going to follow this reg because it inconvenience my clients." A parent can't give a licensed provider permission to do the wrong thing.
It does sound as if you need a different care option, I know centers around here tend not to close for snow days, and hardly any holidays. That may be the better option for you. Or perhaps network with neighbors to see if any teens could babysit for the day when you have to work and dc is closed.
Since you know your providers policy and it doesn't work for you, it's not a good idea to stay and let things stew. Good luck!
I just knew with the storms in the northeast US that this was going to be dredged up yet again.
It's this simple: DON'T ENROLL YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE POLICIES.
I close in a SOE, with pay. I cannot control acts of God, nor will I risk my livelihood and freedom to stay open for a parent willing to risk their child's safety to get to work.
We have specific state regulations, policies and plans in place for emergencies that cover all of this. I can be cited if BOTH my egresses aren't clear at all times, if it's snowing hard enough, with six small children in care, how am I supposed to keep these areas clear in the event of an emergency? I NEVER want to be placed in a situation where I cannot get children out safely in an emergency, where emergency personnel cannot arrive to my home in time to save a child, or where I have to evacuate due to power loss. These are very real, very possible scenarios. I am the business owner. I am liable. I am responsible.
I operated under a delay today, until roads were passable and the SOE was lifted. I NEVER want to place these children at risk. I NEVER want to be in one of the above scenarios. EVER. It's my absolute worst nightmare.
The safety of the children in my care is my highest priority, NOT a parent's inconvenience. MANY times, I have been the one to overrule a parent when a child's best interests aren't at heart (road conditions, illnesses, proper attire for weather, you name it).Comment
-
Wondering what this has to do with anything?
Being a single mother that gets nothing from the dad has NO bearing on this subject. NONE.
Being a single parent is NOT a disability. I'm am so tired of people tossing this concept into the equation like it bears some sort of weight in the argument.
Child care providers are among THE lowest paid workers in our country!!
Have you not been listening to any of the President's speeches lately.
Paying for a closed day here and there should not, in the grand scheme of things, be such a big deal if your provider offers quality care and leaves you with no fears when you drop your child off. That peace of mind is worth MORE than the couple dollars you have to fork out when Mother Nature decides to mess with us.Comment
-
Blackcat well stated! I always have "those" certain parents that don't want to pay for a day where I close, they take off etc. I have parents that are bankers and work long hours so their children are here with me from sun up to sun down. They are the ONLY parents that automatically pay me on days off/closed. They never complain about it and feel they get paid on their days and holiday pay and so should I. The other families however right at the interview start asking if they have to pay on days closed/off. It does bother me and I try to get them to pay for the "spot" rather than the day. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.Comment
-
At our daycare, our parents pay for a week at a time regardless of whether we r opened or not. If we have snow days like this week, our parents still pay.Comment
-
When I lived in hurricane country if you could prove that your power was out for a significant amount of time (more than a week) the cable company would prorate the bill. I guess that this was a good PR move on their part."My power goes out and I can't use my Direct TV. I want Direct TV to credit me for the days my power goes out. "
Side note- my parents work for the cable company, and people actually do call and ask for this, and they do get the credit. Have always thought it was funny, but they'd rather throw the few bucks their way or give them a free on demand movie than get yelled at!
Comment
-
Childcare Centers Should Remain Open During School Snow Days
It is my opinion that a licensed daycare provider who works from their home should not be closed for snow days simply because the schools are closed. The schools are closed for the safety of the children who walk and/or ride the busses that the schools provide for them. A daycare provider who is not liable for the transportation of their clients should remain open to those who are willing and able to bring their kids to the daycare. On another note, whether the parents decide it is safe enough to bring their child or not, all parents should pay full tuition for the day(s) because the daycare center should remain open. If the power is out or something more severe, this should be an acceptable reason to be closed. In conclusion, I believe that daycare centers should not be closed, but they still should require full tuition for snow days. They should be open for parents who still have to work to bring their children if they choose to do so, and if they do not and choose to stay home because they feel this is safer, they still must pay and this decision is up to them (or maybe their employer if they are required to attend work).Comment
-
Sounds like you have it all figured out.
Your child care business should be a success!
If you are not a provider and are just commenting on the subject in general....my advice to you then is to interview every provider you are able to in order to find one that has policies that meet your needs or coincide with your beliefs.Comment
-
Totally agree with this!Sounds like you have it all figured out.
Your child care business should be a success!
If you are not a provider and are just commenting on the subject in general....my advice to you then is to interview every provider you are able to in order to find one that has policies that meet your needs or coincide with your beliefs.
As a provider who normally doesn't close on snow days, I end up charging parents extra, because most of my kids are SA kiddos. It is a huge inconvenience for me when school closes because it often means a menu change. What I planned for one or two kiddos for lunch changes in a hurry when I find out at 7:30 AM I will instead have six for the day. It also means I plan extra activities and use extra art supplies. For that reason, I have in the contract what the additional fee is for non school days. But if I was going to close on school days, I would expect any parent to signed off on that contract to understand the contract will be followed.Comment
-
I have not had to close for a snow day before because my clients are smart enough not to try to take their kids out into a blizzard. However, in the event of a snow emergency, what is a provider to do when she has 12 kids trapped at her home because of weather? Roads DO become clogged and impassable-a smart provider would close when there is a risk of kids not being picked up. There are plenty of stupid parents out there who will call into work for a snow day and still risk life and limb to get their kids to daycare so that they can have a day alone. Providers who close do so for the safety and well-being of the children that they care for...they make the decision FOR that group of parents who can't be trusted to make a good decision on their own.Comment
-
The decision should be made based on whether the inclement weather prohibits or delays access to emergency services. Can 911 be called in an emergency and arrive in the same amount of time as regular weather.
If emergency services are overworked because of the weather it isn't safe to have a house full of kids who have little chance of accessing services while the others are being normally cared for.
The second concern is if staff can arrive on time and have their child care needs met.
Next, can the provider keep her property safe for arrivals and departures? A provider inside with kids can't keep the outside safe.
A center may not have access to their normal plowers in a huge snow event. Many providers have been stuck with kids while their parents are stuck in their driveway or street or on the way to pick them up. Many providers have had parents get stuck in their driveway and blocked it off for other incoming parents.
Then the odds that parents can get back to pick.up on TIME? Is there staff available to care for kids if parents are delayed?
The money is easy. Centers and providers just need to build closure days into their contract. If the average closures are five a year then build five into the contract. If they aren't used then the parents get a few days of care they didn't pay for over the course of a year. If they exceed five them refunds are issued for the sixth and over days for parents that have actually used the five days.
My experience is that most parents will call into work because of the drive but drive their kid to care so they can have a me day and an excuse if they are late. It's a pretty rare parent who will keep their kid home even if the weather is REALLY really dangerous.
Some will... but most won't.Comment
Comment