Paying Full Tuition When the Daycare Closes for a Snow Day...Is This Fair?

[Hunni Bee]

Lol...

SnowdayMom should switch to the preschool chain I work for....we NEVER close. Snow days don't exist. I'm located in a Mid-Atlantic state that doesn't see a whole lot of snow, so when we do, its a big deal and there's usually a breakdown in plowing/salting. Buuuut, we are required to be there regardless.

Once, the police department demanded we close to prevent parents from endangering their kids lives by trying to drive to us. Yes, it actually took that.

[Brustkt]

Funny!

I had one dcp come in after two consecutive snow days in a row and say "wow! You must really LOVE snow days! You get paid two times for one day of work!" (I only watch teachers children and I do not charge them for summer break but I do require that they keep their children home with them when school is closed throughout the year. ie; spring break, Christmas break, snow days, etc..) She is referring to us having to make up these snow days at the end of the year and having to pay me for that. She was being rather passive aggressive.
I just smiled at her and said, "yep! I am ROLLING in the dough now!" ::::::

[My3cents]

What a great read. I am teetering on good read and stupid silly nonsense. All my forum buddies here good responses. The debate from Snowman.......eh, not so much. Its like the child that won't take NO for an answer so tries every angle until satisfied.

Bottom line is you pick and decide where to send your child to daycare. You sign the contract.

In order for me to run my childcare smoothly I charge no matter if the child is here or not for everything except if I have used my five sick days up in a year. I take Holidays off. I have two weeks paid vacation. I expect parents to have back up care. I work hard. Food is bought no matter if your child comes or not. I am paid little when all is said and done. I go above and beyond for my parents and especially the kiddo's. I am not a big center. I am a small family business. I have to depend upon a weekly anticipated income, in order to be able to do my job.

I feel it is fair to charge if you have to close down for weather. Safety trumps all. I rarely do. but.......if I had a meat head client, that didn't have enough common sense to keep off the roads in horrible weather then I would close in a heart beat. Your life is more important to me then it is you if you make a greedy choice to send your child to daycare in a horrible storm. You can't take back Dead- No debating that- It's a no brainer~

Your comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to fight for something fight for jobs for Americans that pay enough so that a choice can be made if they want to stay home with their children or make a choice to work. Fight for places of employment to have understanding of working parents and the need to take take time off for little ones for being sick, or daycare closures. Pick a fight that has more meaning then "unfair snow days"

Pay your provider well, treat your provider well, they are taking care of your most cherished possession. Respect your provider and know this person works extremely hard and long hours for little pay- Realize your provider spends more time with your child in the first few precious years of life then you do. Realize you have choices of who you send your child to and the contract you sign.

**** it up buttercup- Life is not fair is many aspects. This is tiny in comparison of all the unfairness of the world we live in. Greater causes that a Lawyer that loves good debate could energize time with- Make it count.

I am really stuck on that **** it up buttercup.......love love lovelovethislovethislovethis

[kitykids3]

Show me the employer who would 1) offer the employees unlimited paid sick days, and 2) agree with you that such an arrangement would be totally fair (he'll just pay you AND a temp to get the work done!). You show me that, and then you can call me hypocritical.

And I employ a daycare CENTER because I have no intention of having a care provider who can't watch my child due to illness, let alone ask me to pay.

I know I'm late to this thread but just came across it. I hate closing unless absolutely necessary, but i would never consider myself 'employed' by my clients. I run a business. Clients can choose to use my services or not (as I offer them), plain and simple. I do things for the best interest of my kiddos and have had parents that have been extremely happy over the years and run a 5 star daycare home, but I will not ever consider that I am employed by them. If I was, I would have the benefits for my hard work and education, which would include retirement plan, etc. I don't close for snow days since they have to travel to me and I know some parents don't get a choice in working, but if it might possibly put the kids in extra danger (such as not being able to get an ambulance here if something happens, or my old boiler can not keep it warm enough in here), then yes, I will occasionally close. Running a business, I make those decisions though and if my clients don't think it's fair because I am doing what I think is best overall, then they can find someone they think is 'fair.' Honestly I think what's 'fair' is relative.

[cheerfuldom]

Craftymissbeth....THAT is very interesting. Maybe that sorta actually helps me to understand it. I guess that's *if* my daycare used that formula to figure out their pricing, but if I choose to believe they did, then I can not feel so screwed anymore!

Sorry to hear about your water issue...OMG that kinda stuff STINKS because how many HOURS of your time did you spend just dealing with that?? You're lucky you got it sorted out.

And, hey, all you business owners out there, consider this:

This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.

I was so surprised to hear this. The daycare is expecting my child and they've held a spot in their school for my child and I've decided not to have my child attend. I actually EXPECT to have to pay in this scenario and they tell me I don't have to!

Honestly, I wish they'd scrap that policy entirely and instead just not charge me for snow days. Because on one hand I feel like I'm getting a benefit I don't even deserve, but on the other hand I feel like I'm getting screwed. Switch the two policies and I'm happy.

Besides, their vacation policy "punishes" families with less money and less ability to take vacation! If I'm in one of those families who don't get paid if I don't work (i.e. no paid vacation), then I might only go away on weekends and never take a week vacation. In that case I never get the BENEFIT of this policy, yet those families will also bear the worst burden on snow days. ('cause if they can't go to work, they don't get paid.)

The issue that the contract and policies are not made with YOU in mind (as in you personally and your own personal life situation). What you are missing here is that this is GROUP care. I can guarantee that there is no place or sitter that will do everything your way in order for you to feel that it is fair and ethical because it is not all about you.

No, life is not fair.

Nothing is ever fair.

If your biggest concern is having to be inconvenienced and pay for a few snow days a year, I would say that you have it pretty good. Instead of over analyzing on small portion of your daycare situation, perhaps it would do you good to count the positives of your daycare situation. All the services that they do provide and do benefit your family. You should come out with more positives than negatives and if you don't, time to find a new daycare.

You are looking at this in a mostly one sided way "what is best/convenient for me and my definition of fair" and not seeing that no matter what the daycare did, there will be some parent complaining about it and saying "thats not fair!".

[cheerfuldom]

Alright, I'm losing steam on this (finally), but I think I can find a *lil* bit more for one point.

Blandino, I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bad analogy. You're describing an employee on SALARY. My daycare is not on "salary" from me... What if you work at Macy's and you're not on salary, and you show up one day and Macy's is closed due to a power outage, I'm pretty certain Macy's would NOT pay you that day.

On the other hand, I DO pay by the week. It's not salary, but then it's actually not hourly either...so maybe this is some hybrid situation where there is a point in there somewhere... I'm not sure I have the energy left to ponder deeply (the only kinda pondering I know how to do) on this twist, but at least I can see from your post that it's not just black and white.

Blandino, though, you brought up a REALLY interesting point about bad weather. Part of what irks me is that the daycare center is closed when other businesses are open. That drives me crazy. My thinking was, "they don't have to bus the kids anywhere, so how do they justify closing?" But, I hadn't considered that you are RESPONSIBLE for getting the child help in an emergency situation, and so maybe that's a justification for closing when so many other establishments are open.

Now frankly, I'm not 100% sure it's a great argument, because maybe all you're legally responsible to do is call the police/firemen/ambulance and if they can't get to you, it's not your fault. (sorry, I'm thinking strictly about your liability, not whether or not that's a good idea or a "nice" way of thinking!! That's what we lawyers do...think about liability.) But, Blandino, it's a really good point worthy of further pondering...



There are some really great thinkers on here! (and clearly a lot of savvy business owners) So while I have your attention, I'm curious about your thoughts on another situation at my daycare:

This particular center has at least two "Teacher In-service Days" per school year. These are days when they are "closed" (but of course I have to pay) so that their teachers can train, clean, organize, decorate classrooms, etc. As you can imagine, I find this outrageous. I know, I know...you're surprised about that.

*If* they were a private school, I could see this happening. *If* I was paying them for their private kindergarten I can see ****ing it up. Fine. But when my child is an infant, or a preschooler, or whatever, I can't see the justification around having a Teacher In-Service Day. My husband owns his own business--he doesn't "charge" his customers for training his staff, or for a special day of keeping up his offices and warehouses. Sure it's built-in to what he charges, as it should be, but there's not a special day when his customers all have to pony up $50 and don't get service in return because he's training his staff.

I'm starting to recognize why Primrose calls themselves Primrose SCHOOL. Because then they can say, "YOU, SnowDayMom, might see us as a daycare, but you're actually paying for private school for your infant (har har), so that's why we need a teacher in-service day, just like any other SCHOOL."

Also, you can probably see from this that the snow days are not the ONLY area I'm feeling a little taken advantage of here, when I'm already paying for an expensive place as it is (i.e. don't slip extra costs in too, please!). There's also a $50-75 "supply fee" I have to pay at the beginning of every school year. Grrrr.

I know I could change schools, but my hubby thinks it would be too disruptive for my lil girl, and he doesn't have the same sense of personal outrage around perceived "unfairness" as I do.

But within the next year I may "retire" from what I'm doing, and then I'll pull her out and watch her myself. Money will be tight, but then I'll have more free time to spend with my kids, and maybe put some of my energy toward helping others! (as one of your respondents suggested)

You ARE receiving a service for the teacher training.....your child is benefiting from staff that is trained, competent, confident, and up-to-date. The facility is cleaned, the rooms are organized, the staff is prepared adequately to provide excellent care for YOUR child. The staff is working that day, you are still receiving a service (not daycare, but a general benefit from the training).

And by the way, welcome to parenthood. School/childcare is frustrating no matter if you are using the services or providing the services. Don't kid yourself that the providers/teachers have all the benefits and parents are the ones with all the frustrations. Even "free" public education is enough for a parent to want to jump off the nearest bridge. If you put this much intensity on the issue of snow days, you are going to drive yourself insane when you get to kindergarten with your daughter......you will have even less control over the situation there, regardless of whether you public or private educate. Sounds like you need to consider homeschooling. or take a huge chill-pill before inflicting your intense nature on your daughter's future teachers. I say this in jest....sort of....

[WDW]

Now that we've moved on to paid training days/in-service days....I'd like to add that in order for me to do my job and continue caring for your (general you) child I must attend xx amount of training hours per year.

I have to pay for these trainings out of pocket. Travel, meals and whatever else it entails. I also pay for these trainings with loss of personal time with MY family...so that I can continue to offer quality and legal care to client families.

I work 50-55 hours per week ON SITE and another 10 or so after hours and on weekends. Running errands, cleaning and keeping my environment up to code.

I can deduct some of those expenses and claim a little bit of my time (although, how do you place a price tag on loss of time with your own DH or child) but for all intents and purposes the IRS allows me a break in some of those costs/expenses.

I charge my families for days I am not open for business. It's not always about that particular day and who it is or isn't fair to. It's about the bigger picture.

I work MUCH longer days/weeks than my clients and when it's all said and done.... I make a small profit.

Not a ton, and certainly not the kind of money people who work in other fields that require the same training, degree, and/or knowledge.

I don't bring home the big bucks...I don't own a home on some tropical island where the sun shines all the time. I don't drive a giant SUV that has a gas tank bigger than my kitchen. I don't wear designer clothing and my purses do NOT say Coach or Dooney & Burke.

I live pay check to pay check and my only real plans for retirement is death or the lottery...which ever happens first.... Not because I don't want a retirement plan but because I can NOT afford one.

I have too many parents complaining about having to pay a few dollars more when it snows so that they can feel like it is fair to them.

Like I said in my previous post.....I know you want fair. I know you are looking for justification but honestly, it isn't about fair and it isn't about what you or me or anyone else thinks is morally and/or ethically right or wrong.

It's about the big picture. It's about being happy OVERALL with the care you receive....even if that care is temporarily unavailable when it snows....

If you are genuinely happy with the services you receive, let it go. Pay for the few extra days that winter is hard on folks. Pay for the snow days and let it roll off your back because technically there are worse things going on in the world of early childhood and child care that ARE worthy of this kind of attention and discussion.

Be happy that you have a place you can trust 100% with the care of your child. If paying for a snow day here and there helps your provider stay in business and continue running in the black....great!

If collecting fees for snow days is a big money maker then your daycare has stumbled upon a gold mine and more power to them because we all know (atleast those of us on the providing end) this profession is NOT a gold mine....

Most of the providers I know here and in real life would qualify for government assistance.

So all in all, thank you for the parent perspective. Thank you for the good debate (I too love a good one ) but I am signing off this thread by offering you this.

Life is a give and take. Sometimes we have to be the givers. If it paints a better, prettier picture in the grand scheme of it all, it's all good.

Even if it isn't fair at the moment.

Yes, Yes Yes!

[nannyde]

There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?

This

I think the analogy would be better served with this:

My power goes out and I can't use my Direct TV. I want Direct TV to credit me for the days my power goes out.

Will they?

Nope

If a person pays 300 bucks a month for a parking spot and when they get there the road is blocked off because a water main breaks on the street in front of the entry... making it unsafe for the cars to gain entry into the parking garage should the person get a credit for that day?

NOPE


I always feel it is wonderful when Centers can close and not have staff expenses. If they can wiggle 5-7 days a year for snow days then boo Yah for them.

It gives them a chance to take the money and build a nest egg for unforeseen expenses. They operate on a thin margin and something like snow days helps their bottom line a lot.

As far as the parent goes... of course they would like to not pay for the day. I think it's VERY rare that parents actually find care givers for hire on days the weather is so bad the day care and schools close. I think that excuse that they have to pay someone else is actually pretty slim.

Parents need to educate themselves on these kinds of financial disagreements and look specifically for child care that meets their money belief system as well as their child care belief system. If the parent feels it is unethical to charge for those days then they should think clearly the center is unethical in every way and not be involved in their business.

It's the ever ongoing disagreement of what the parents are paying for. Parents for the most part want pay as you go... only for the days used... type of payment. MOST successful child care businesses don't operate on that model UNLESS they charge about 1.25 to 1.5 X the actual rate they need per day per day to compensate for the unused days. This is what drop in center do. If their average hourly rate is 4 bucks an hour for a ten hour a day kid who is five days a week they charge 6 bucks an hour for drop in for the same slot.

[blandino]

This


Parents need to educate themselves on these kinds of financial disagreements and look specifically for child care that meets their money belief system as well as their child care belief system. If the parent feels it is unethical to charge for those days then they should think clearly the center is unethical in every way and not be involved in their business.

THIS !!!


But the only childcare they are going to find to fit that kind of money belief system, is probably going to be unlicensed daycare, a SAHM "sitter", a sitter that comes to your home, or someone with no backbone at all. In those scenarios , the care is going to either be illegal, low quality, expensive (as in a paying a private sitter $20.00/hr), or unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

[cheerfuldom]

THIS !!!


But the only childcare they are going to find to fit that kind of money belief system, is probably going to be unlicensed daycare, a SAHM "sitter", a sitter that comes to your home, or someone with no backbone at all. In those scenarios , the care is going to either be illegal, low quality, expensive (as in a paying a private sitter $20.00/hr), or unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

[Unregistered]

"My power goes out and I can't use my Direct TV. I want Direct TV to credit me for the days my power goes out. "

Side note- my parents work for the cable company, and people actually do call and ask for this, and they do get the credit. Have always thought it was funny, but they'd rather throw the few bucks their way or give them a free on demand movie than get yelled at!

[saved4always]

For my in home daycare, I watched all teacher's children. At first, I did not charge for snow days. However, one winter we had many snow days and not getting paid for all of those days killed my budget. I changed my policy to require full pay for snow days. I was there and available to watch the kids, so, I changed my policy to make snow days paid. My situation was a little different since I was technically "open".

[saved4always]

As a parent I think it's bull. If I can get my child to the daycare then the daycare should provide the care. The other day my wife was dropping our kid off and the normal opening person was leaving saying they was not going to be open due to the weather. The employee made it there just fine as did my wife, but left us in a bind.

I shouldn't be forced to keep a backup plan that I can use at the drop of a hat because those plans are rarely possible. At the very least if you must charge then snow days should be only 25% of a normal day. Would it kill anyone to be a honest person and not try to screw a hard working person over? Because not only are you forcing them to pay for a service you're not providing but you are making them bend over backwards to find another provider or not go into work themselves.

If I can't make it then charge me for that day, no issues at all from me. But when I can make it and you won't then yes we have issues and I will be seeking out a different provider.

When I worked full time outside the home, there was a big snow storm. I took the bus downtown and my husband went to drop the kids off at our daycare center. My husband got there and it was closed. He was so angry and called me to come home so he could go to work. Turns out that there was a level 3 snow emergency for the county which means the county sheriff dept. determined that the roads were bad enough that only emergency vehicles were allowed to be on the roads. My husband could have totally been ticketed for driving (in spite of his opinion otherwise, his engineering job was not an "emergency" worker ). So, even though my husband got to the daycare safely, it was not actually safe for him or the daycare workers to be on the road. The daycare needs to take into account the safety of employees based on weather conditions against the inconvenience to parents.

[debbiedoeszip]

For my in home daycare, I watched all teacher's children. At first, I did not charge for snow days. However, one winter we had many snow days and not getting paid for all of those days killed my budget. I changed my policy to require full pay for snow days. I was there and available to watch the kids, so, I changed my policy to make snow days paid. My situation was a little different since I was technically "open".

I would also charge if I was open and ready to provide care. I live in southern Ontario, Canada. Between heavy snowfalls and/or freezing rain, it gets pretty messy here from November to April. I don't plan to charge if I choose to close the daycare, but then I will likely not close unless the power goes out and is likely to stay out for more than a few hours (in winter).

Living where I do, with the road equipment that we have, I've never experienced weather so bad that all area roads were closed. They often will close a section of a road if there are problems on that particular section (problems like an accident or severe damage to the road itself), but you can still get where you need to go by taking other roads. They will sometimes suggest that no one should be out driving, but they don't prevent you from doing so. It's at your own risk.

I probably would close, and not charge for that day, if all area roads were closed. Around here, that would likely only happen in the event of the arrival of the apocalypse, though. LOL.

[Childminder]

Do you pay your lease payment if it snows and you can't drive anywhere? Do you pay for a school/college tuition if you can't go because of snow? If you dock your boat at a marina and can't use it do you still have to pay? If the answer is yes to any of the above then you should pay your childcare bill if the weather shuts them down.