Paying Full Tuition When the Daycare Closes for a Snow Day...Is This Fair?

[Lil'DinoEggs]

Why pay for a service that are not using?

Perhaps looking at your tuition differently will help you see it from a business perspective. Many centers and home daycares come up with their rates differently than you may think.

Let's say that there are 260 work days in a year (because Google told me so). The daycare will be closed 10 holidays per year as well as one full week during winter break. That means they will be open 245 days in the year. They are going to go ahead and figure in 5 unexpected closures for the year (weather related, loss of utilities, illness, etc.) so now they are at 240 days open for the year.

They charge $25 per day per child. Multiplied by the amount of days they estimate they will be open = $6000. To make payments easier for parents they divide this amount into 52 equal payments = rounded to $115 per week.

Assuming that clients are long-term (which is ideal) this means that the clients actually ARE only paying for days the daycare is open. They are not paying for days the daycare is closed. In fact, it's likely that they are getting free days in the end... if the daycare doesn't actually close for all 5 of those additional days they figured in. It sure feels like you're paying for every day, but it's likely you're not. In the scenario above if they charged for all 260 work days regardless of closed days the weekly rate would be $125.

I hope that makes sense

I love it. It is something I have thought about but was unable to put into words. I am saving this!

[KidGrind]

Kidgrind:

This is nothing about being sneaky--I appreciate that it's in your contracts and your parents know up front, and no one should be surprised...but that doesn't make it fair.

What if your contract said, "Sometimes, when I've personally overspent my bank account that month, I'll charge all you parents extra to make sure I have personal spending money. That way I can still go out to dinner every Saturday."

Is it in your contract? Yes. Do the parents get to decide up front if they will ACTUALLY pony up when it happens. Yes.

.....but does that make it FAIR? Nooooo.

And, oh wait...before I address the other part of your post, Kidgrind, can you please clarify something for me? You said this: "It’s fair. As a business owner I still have costs whether the children enrolled come or not."

Are you really saying that even when YOU PERSONALLY decide that you WILL NOT care for the children that day, you still think it's fair to charge the parents because you have to cover the costs of running your business? I can't imagine you mean it this way...

Or do you mean that if a parent CHOOSES not to come that day, they still have to pay? (I agree with this charge. You're right-on to charge for this.)

I don’t PERSONALLY make the decision not to care for children. My regulations dictate I do not provide services for the children’s SAFETY. The service I offer is safe & quality childcare based upon ENROLLMENT not ATTENDANCE.

The definition of fair is in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate

My snow day policy based on the regulations I am governed by is fair. Thanks for sharing your perspective from your vantage point.

[Unregistered]

Kidgrind,

So help me understand. I'll give you an example: if you visit a tanning bed (at least in my state), there are signs everywhere stating that if the temperature in the room exceeds 100 degrees, the patron cannot tan. It's a regulatiin that the business MUST follow for the safety of the patron.

You have paid $25 for one tanning session before your trip to the tropics to get out of the snow (LOL), you go into the booth and it's 105 degrees and the tanning folks say sorry, regulations prohibit us from letting you tan.

YET THEY TAKE YOUR $25 ANYWAY and when you return to tan again, they make you buy another tan, EVEN THOUGH YOU NEVER RECEIVED THE FIRST TAN YOU PAID FOR.

You, apparently, would not feel cheated in this scenario, and you'd find this to be perfectly fair? Help me understand that.

Remember, in the question I've posed in this forum, whether or not it's in your contract is irrelevant.

[Annalee]

Kendallina--

I'm not surprised your parents are impressed with your great commitment to customer service!! Sounds like your policy keeps parents happy and doesn't help you/hurt you too much either way. That's a WIN!

Annalee--

I'm guessing from your confused emoticon with three question marks next to this ---> "then there is how charging for snow days is unfair" means that you are:

1) baffled as to how I could think such a thing, and
2) CONFIDENT that you are right in your opposite opinion.

But since you didn't actually address any of my points to help me understand why you think such a practice is clearly FAIR (as evidenced by your baffled emoticon), and instead just lumped me in with some complaint that sounded like "God I'm so sick of all these complaining customers!", I guess we can't talk about it.

So in response, I'll just address how I feel about the lack of any actual points on-topic in your response:

Actually, I am open on snow days unless dc is rendered without electricity or water which are STATE guidelines/requirements. My main point is if a client reads/signs the contract, they are bound by it. I think what a dc chooses to put in their contract will be pertinent to THEIR program. Clients must respect that or go elsewhere! Why have a contract if you are not going to consider it binding? The confused emoticon simply expresses my frustration at how clients in my program and those I have received calls from consider those contracts for the "other clients", and feel they are not bound by that due to their situations.

[Unregistered]

Annalee, I'm guessing you didn't read through all the recent posts (understandable--they're long!!!).

Honestly, I'm absolutely sure there are a ton parents who don't read their contract, or don't think they'll CARE about their contract (until suddenly they care), and those parents--understandably--drive you all crazy, but my post was reacting to all of the original responses back in 2011, I think, where so many daycare owners were jumping on and defending this policy as FAIR (rather than defending it as being covered in the contract).

Covered in the contract is one thing. FAIR is something totally different.

[craftymissbeth]

This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.

I don't personally offer that benefit to parents, but I know there are users on this forum that do. I know we try to make it clear that whatever the contract states you need to just follow, but I wonder if your center director would be open to hearing your concerns. Perhaps you could ask if your family could use those 5 vacation days instead towards individual days your child cannot attend? They may say no, but if you currently have a good relationship with them they may at least consider it. I wouldn't suggest they actually change any of their policies, though.

Please consider registering for the forum. I always love hearing feedback from parents! The few parents that have joined and stayed here have helped me form many of my policies.

[Cat Herder]

This daycare I'm complaining about has another policy: Once per year you are allowed to take your child on vacation and NOT pay for that week at all.


their vacation policy "punishes" families with less money and less ability to take vacation!

Personally, I don't close for weather so I have no interest in that debate. I also don't charge for closings other than Federal Holidays with 12 month notice given. (all in the contract )

Your views on Unpaid Vacation Time interest me greatly, though.

I offer two weeks per family, per year. I don't view it as a punishment for those who can't. I view it as an incentive for those who wouldn't otherwise.

I can't tell you how many times in the last 20 years parents have taken vacations and still had their kids in daycare, full time.

My goal with this incentive is for the kids to spent as much time with their parents as possible while they are small. This incentive works in the kids best interest, not the parents.

The parents are not my concern. Their life choices are their own. I don't mean that in an ugly way, I mean it literally. I gladly give up pay to see parents take their kids on vacation/stay-cations with them. Most use one week at Christmas and one in the summer since I added it to my contract..

[SilverSabre25]

There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?

[MarinaVanessa]

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

I get what you're saying Silver. I still pay the same amount in gym membership fees when their pipe burst and the gym closed for two days even if I couldn't go. I pay for the month, not per day that I attend. But there's no sense in beating a dead horse.

[SnowDayMom]

There's something I'm noticing here that I think plays a big role in how both sides are viewing this issue.

Parent (Can you give yourself a user name there, so we can refer to you? ), you are using example from services that are pay-as-you-go: the deli, the tanning salon, etc.
The daycare providers tend to use examples that are monthly subscriptions, like cable, rent, etc.

Parent, you are viewing your daycare as a pay-as-you-go service, but WE tend to see ourselves as subscribe-for-the-week/month/whatever. There is a disconnect here between how YOU are viewing the service and how WE are viewing it.

Furthermore, I am familiar with the Primrose chain and the are very much more in line with a private school than with a regular ol' daycare center. As such, they (and many places like them) choose to (or may be required to, I'm not sure) follow the local public schools when it comes to weather related closures, holidays, etc.

If you choose to view your center as a school, and your "$50/day" as TUITION at a PRIVATE ACADEMY--do you still feel that it is unfair? If you choose to send your child to Catholic school for elementary, will you still consider it unfair that you still have to pay the same tuition every month, regardless of how many snow days there are?

{okay I broke down and got a user name }

Okay, let's talk about that. What you're describing is a recurring charge that happens whether I use the service or not. For example, I have a monthly newspaper subscription. It would be ludicrous and unreasonable for me to call my newspaper provider and say, "I know you delivered the paper every day like you promised, but I only read it three times. So can I have my money back for the other 27 days?"

This is totally different. Let's look at MV's scenario: MV paid for a gym membership and was DENIED use of the gym for two days, but was charged for it anyway. Know what I'd be doing? (I know you know...) I'D BE COMPLAINING. It's not fair.

Maybe MV's contract is clear that if the roof falls in she still has to pay for the gym membership--I don't know. But that doesn't make it fair and it would probably cause her to look for another gym.

SilverSabre, you're likening it to a "spot held"...as in, almost like a club membership, but it's not the same thing.

I've really thought about this, and I've considered your scenario of a school situation, and I've decided that schools are far more justified in closing (i.e. CHOOSING not to perform the service that day) because they have kids waiting for the bus and they are actually transporting children. That doesn't really address if it's still fair for them to charge me, but it at least helps explain part of my beef, in that, why do these darn daycares close SO MUCH??? McDonald's isn't closed. The Post Office isn't closed. My corporation I work for isn't closed, but guess what...my DAYCARE is closed. WHY????

Oh! But my daycare transports kids! To kindergarten and such! Oh wait...but they DON'T do that when SCHOOL'S CLOSED (which is the only time daycare's also closed). So there goes that argument in their favor...

But to directly answer your question, yes I would feel different if it was a private Catholic school, and here's why (and I'll totally ignore the transportation issue I mention above):

1) I'm paying for an EDUCATION, NOT child care services. Snow day or not, they can probably *overall* prove that they are still providing my child with the good education I'm paying for, plus they'd point to the state laws and say, "We were in session this year the minimum amount we were required to be in session."

NET: I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR. (But when daycare is closed for snow, I DO NOT get what I paid for)

2) I don't pay "tuition". I pay by the week for child care. I should receive the child care I paid for or I shouldn't have to pay for it.

3) Finally, in order to provide an adequate education, the state determines how many days schools have to be in session (I'm assuming this applies to private schools too). So let's look at it another way. By state law let's say they have to be in school for a minimum of 200 days. Due to snow days (for which I still had to pay! *sob*) they only have been in school for 190 days. I'm guessing, that *if* I pay a yearly tuition and not weekly, and *if* that private school then has to extend their school year by adding TWO WEEKS to the end of the school year, I'm guessing I DO NOT get billed for that extra two weeks ON TOP of the yearly tuition I already paid. In other words....I *STILL* got what I paid for and I didn't have to pay any extra to get it.

And if we're looking at this as what I'm BUYING and what I'm GETTING, think about it this way. What if I bought a private high-school "education" for my child and that school CHOSE that year not to teach ANY MATH at all (because their math teacher quit! and it wasn't THEIR fault! and it would be challenging to find another math teacher! and they still have to pay their bills/other teachers/licences etc!) and I had to go to another private school or tutor and pay for my child to learn his/her math... Sound fair?

That's really what's happening when the daycare closes for snow. I paid for child care. I was refused child care. I had to buy child care from some other provider. And somehow this is supposed to be fair?

[SnowDayMom]

So far Craftymissbeth wins as the only possibly satisfying response that doesn't make me feel cheated.

I want to give credit where credit's due, so I want acknowledge my question as satisfactorily addressed by Crafty, with much respect for her answer. I was impressed.

But I'm still willing to address any other versions of justification for this policy, because...uh...clearly I have a passion for it.

[OMG the owner or moderator or someone (or maybe it was randomly generated??) made my avatar a snowman. This seriously cracked me up! It's perfect!]

[Blackcat31]

{okay I broke down and got a user name }

Welcome to the forum!

Can I ask you a couple questions?

Are you trying to find out why your child care charges for snow days?

Are you trying to convince other providers not to charge or that it isn't okay to do so?

Are you just looking to vent that some things in life aren't fair?

Are you discussing this with YOUR child care?

Bottom line, I don't understand your point. Why are you putting forth so much time and effort making sure everyone here knows you don't think it is fair to be charged for a snow day...

What is in that for you and what's in that for me? (not me personally but the providers on this board in general).

Charging for snow days isn't fair. I agree. But there are a lot more important things in life that aren't fair that deserve this kind of attention, if not more.

In the grand scheme of things, as a parent...if I had to pay my provider for a few snow days here and there and couldn't use her services, I might feel a little put out financially but if the other 99.9% of her policies AND care is good, sound quality care that I can trust with my child, it would be worth it in the end to me.

I value the bigger picture verses picking apart the small stuff....especially those things (snow days) that happen so infrequently that in a few months, we won't even remember how tough or irritating they were.

[SnowDayMom]

Welcome to the forum!

Can I ask you a couple questions?

Are you trying to find out why your child care charges for snow days?

Are you trying to convince other providers not to charge or that it isn't okay to do so?

Are you just looking to vent that some things in life aren't fair?

Are you discussing this with YOUR child care?

Bottom line, I don't understand your point. Why are you putting forth so much time and effort making sure everyone here knows you don't think it is fair to be charged for a snow day...

What is in that for you and what's in that for me? (not me personally but the providers on this board in general).

Charging for snow days isn't fair. I agree. But there are a lot more important things in life that aren't fair that deserve this kind of attention, if not more.

In the grand scheme of things, as a parent...if I had to pay my provider for a few snow days here and there and couldn't use her services, I might feel a little put out financially but if the other 99.9% of her policies AND care is good, sound quality care that I can trust with my child, it would be worth it in the end to me.

I value the bigger picture verses picking apart the small stuff....especially those things (snow days) that happen so infrequently that in a few months, we won't even remember how tough or irritating they were.

Wait, before I respond to your post, I want to make sure I'm being fair in my response, so I need a clarification. Are you genuinely just curious about why I'd put so much effort toward addressing the thing I posted to your forum about, or am I supposed to pick up on all the unspoken things I *could* read between the lines from in your post?

Unspoken, but implied things like:
"I'm tired of this discussion."
"You're beating a dead horse."
"Your issue has been thoroughly addressed, so please fade back into the interwebz and leave us alone."

And before you answer, please consider that I posted ONE original response to this thread, and since then, I've only been responding to people who have responded to me. Thus, *I'm* not driving this traffic.

Unless...I'm NOT SUPPOSED TO BE responding to those who are responding to me??

Wait, that can't be right... *consults internet handbook*

[Blackcat31]

Wait, before I respond to your post, I want to make sure I'm being fair in my response, so I need a clarification. Are you genuinely just curious about why I'd put so much effort toward addressing the thing I posted to your forum about, or am I supposed to pick up on all the unspoken things I *could* read between the lines from in your post?

Unspoken, but implied things like:
"I'm tired of this discussion."
"You're beating a dead horse."
"Your issue has been thoroughly addressed, so please fade back into the interwebz and leave us alone."

And before you answer, please consider that I posted ONE original response to this thread, and since then, I've only been responding to people who have responded to me. Thus, *I'm* not driving this traffic.

Unless...I'm NOT SUPPOSED TO BE responding to those who are responding to me??

Wait, that can't be right... *consults internet handbook*

:: *I like you you *

No, I am genuinely curious.

...and I am not a read between the lines kind of provider. I am pretty black and white...and very transparent.

Sometimes that leaves my foot in my mouth but I am who I am and will apologize if I offend but take responsibility for all I say and do.....even when I am in the wrong.

So no. There is no hidden message or anything like that...just genuinely curious. I can't help that part of me...

I started this profession accidentally. I was on the same path as you.... and suddenly found myself here.

[Sugar Magnolia]

If your very expensive center is providing good care on a reliable basis, and their policy states no refund for snow days, it seems really simple to me. You pay, as per policy, or go elsewhere. It shouldn't be that controversial. Life isn't always fair.
My Verizon was down for 3 days, I did not get a refund or discount. I don't think that's fair either, but I didn't want to pay an ETF, so I had to **** it up and continue with Verizon.
I don't charge for days my center is closed, but that's in my policy manual.