Point of Grace Preschool in Waukee

[wdmmom]

She was making a point about not caring what people do in their own lives as long as they weren't Christian role models for her children.



I thought the debate was over whether or not the daycare had the right to ask their employees to live a specific lifestyle, NOT about whether or not they were doing it and/or policing them. They were asking new and old employees to agree to it, which to me means the employees are agreeing to police themselves and be people of their word.



People are losing their jobs every day to new management, down sizing and outsourcing to other places, people and countries so why is it so especially sad for these people?

I think whenever new management/owners come on board it is common practice to clean house.

That may be so but these employees have 2 weeks to govern themselves accordingly.

No stated rules/regulations/policies to an actual "Code of Conduct"?! I just think it's very unfair to these employees that have worked there for an unspecified amount of time, have gotten pay increases, received exemplary performance reviews, do their job, aren't late/tardy, don't call in, etc. but might not meet ALL of this so called criteria.

What if your child was placed in a daycare at age 1 and had the same teacher for the past 3 years and this year you find out that this new management team will not allow Ms. Sarah to work there anymore all because she roommates with a guy and a girl?! It's really ridiculous if you ask me.

No one knows anyones finances. If you can't afford to live on your own, you roommate or live at home. What if DSM isn't home?! What if you are going to school part time and working part time? Why should it matter who you live with... if it's man, woman, dog, cat or alien?! Because according to their new code of conduct, you can't live with someone of the opposite sex without being married. What if you roommate with a gay guy?! There's always going to be circumstances that aren't going to apply to everyone and they are trying to make this code apply to everyone regardless of their past work performance.

[satcook]

I hope the employees of this place realize it's much easier to be broke and happy than work for someone with rules you don't like and be unhappy!

But for some of us, we are happy with these rules, and it is what we want in a workplace.

Lori

[Blackcat31]

That may be so but these employees have 2 weeks to govern themselves accordingly.

No stated rules/regulations/policies to an actual "Code of Conduct"?! I just think it's very unfair to these employees that have worked there for an unspecified amount of time, have gotten pay increases, received exemplary performance reviews, do their job, aren't late/tardy, don't call in, etc. but might not meet ALL of this so called criteria.

What if your child was placed in a daycare at age 1 and had the same teacher for the past 3 years and this year you find out that this new management team will not allow Ms. Sarah to work there anymore all because she roommates with a guy and a girl?! It's really ridiculous if you ask me.
No one knows anyones finances. If you can't afford to live on your own, you roommate or live at home. What if DSM isn't home?! What if you are going to school part time and working part time? Why should it matter who you live with... if it's man, woman, dog, cat or alien?! Because according to their new code of conduct, you can't live with someone of the opposite sex without being married. What if you roommate with a gay guy?! There's always going to be circumstances that aren't going to apply to everyone and they are trying to make this code apply to everyone regardless of their past work performance.

I agree with you, I do. It is a sad, and IMHO, an unfair thing for current employees especially in the situation you mentioned above (in bold).

However, with that being said, (and FTR- this is NOT my personal thought as I don't care either way) if I had placed my child in a Christian daycare with the intent for them to learn from Christian role models, then I would probably not want my child being taught by Ms Sarah if I was not in agreement with her sinful living arrangements. Does that make sense?

Like I said, I do not care about how someone lives since I truly believe in personal choices and life styles, I am only saying what I think parents who specifically seek out Christian daycares and role models would think about the situation.

Hypothetically, Not having the new rules would not have allowed me, as a parent to know what Ms Sarah was doing in her personal life/time but with the new rules I could rest assured that the daycare was doing everything in it's power to guarantee me the proper role models for my child by requiring all staff to agree to this committment to a moral life style.


This whole topic/debate reminds me alot of the thread cillybean83 started about being termed by a parent for her political beliefs. https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...itical+beliefs

[satcook]

Lori could we see what they do have to sign?

Offering free child care on top of minimum wage is a BIG salary for a staff assistant. That would definitely help. Here in a center that would be an additional 4.5-5.00 dollars an hour per kid of untaxed income.

That's what I'm talking about with special special. THAT'S some money especially when you are getting into a second/third kid.

If they offer THAT... and they keep their infant population really low or no infants... my guess is they can pull it off.

Just my guess though...

We ask them to read the staff handbook and then sign a statement acknowledging they have read it and will follow it. Here are some snippets from the handbook:

SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT
The teacher should:
 Have a clear testimony of salvation and ability to express it
 Make sure that any doctrine discussed in the classroom should be in alignment with Sunrise’s statement of faith or not discussed at all
 Be an active member in a church that is doctrinally sound
 Have a daily quiet time to be renewed, fed by the word, and prayed-up before entering the classroom every morning
 Remember and strive to include Christ in all our teaching styles and methods

THE MATTHEW 18 PRINCIPLE FOR SOLVING PROBLEMS IN AND OUT OF THE CLASSROOM
“And if your brother sins go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gather. Matthew 18:15-17

Problems are defined as work-related disputes or an employee’s expressed feeling of dissatisfaction with aspects of her/his working conditions and working relationships which are outside her/his control. There are several clear principles that Jesus taught in solving people-to-people problems: Keep the issue in confidence. Discussing the problem with others (gossiping) does not keep the matter confidential. Most issues are solved on the two person level. Keep the issue straight forward and in brotherly (sisterly) love.

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES
The use of alcohol, tobacco, and non-prescription drugs is strictly forbidden. All employees are responsible for their conduct during the working day as well as after hours. Conduct that is not in compliance with the ethics and morality taught at Sunrise Christian Childcare may be grounds for immediate dismissal.

I, _________________________, have thoroughly read, understood, and agree to observe the requirements as outlined in the staff/personnel handbook.

[wdmmom]

I agree with you, I do. It is a sad, and IMHO, an unfair thing for current employees especially in the situation you mentioned above (in bold).

However, with that being said, (and FTR- this is NOT my personal thought as I don't care either way) if I had placed my child in a Christian daycare with the intent for them to learn from Christian role models, then I would probably not want my child being taught by Ms Sarah if I was not in agreement with her sinful living arrangements. Does that make sense?

Like I said, I do not care about how someone lives since I truly believe in personal choices and life styles, I am only saying what I think parents who specifically seek out Christian daycares and role models would think about the situation.

Hypothetically, Not having the new rules would not have allowed me, as a parent to know what Ms Sarah was doing in her personal life/time but with the new rules I could rest assured that the daycare was doing everything in it's power to guarantee me the proper role models for my child by requiring all staff to agree to this committment to a moral life style.


This whole topic/debate reminds me alot of the thread cillybean83 started about being termed by a parent for her political beliefs. https://www.daycare.com/forum/showth...itical+beliefs

I have no doubt the previous management team made strides in who they chose as employees and if Ms. Sarah is a Christian, parents are members of the church, she also attends, isn't interested in a relationship, etc. it makes no sense why her living situatioin should affect her job. Especially if she's not even having a relationship with the male roomate. KWIM?

I know many young, college students roommate right after school while searching for ideal employment.

I completely understand what the new management team is trying to do but how do you tell someone that has been employed for years that all of a sudden, they are good enough to employ based on their living situation?!

Hypothetical situation but what if Ms. Sarah lived in her female cousins house and the female cousin got engaged and had the fiance move in. Now Ms. Sarah has to find a new place to live just to comply with her employers request. That's just ignorant. Ms. Sarah's cousins fiance should have no bearning on employment...kwim?!

[nannyde]

We ask them to read the staff handbook and then sign a statement acknowledging they have read it and will follow it. Here are some snippets from the handbook:

SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT
The teacher should:
 Have a clear testimony of salvation and ability to express it
 Make sure that any doctrine discussed in the classroom should be in alignment with Sunrise’s statement of faith or not discussed at all
 Be an active member in a church that is doctrinally sound
 Have a daily quiet time to be renewed, fed by the word, and prayed-up before entering the classroom every morning
 Remember and strive to include Christ in all our teaching styles and methods

THE MATTHEW 18 PRINCIPLE FOR SOLVING PROBLEMS IN AND OUT OF THE CLASSROOM
“And if your brother sins go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gather. Matthew 18:15-17

Problems are defined as work-related disputes or an employee’s expressed feeling of dissatisfaction with aspects of her/his working conditions and working relationships which are outside her/his control. There are several clear principles that Jesus taught in solving people-to-people problems: Keep the issue in confidence. Discussing the problem with others (gossiping) does not keep the matter confidential. Most issues are solved on the two person level. Keep the issue straight forward and in brotherly (sisterly) love.

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES
The use of alcohol, tobacco, and non-prescription drugs is strictly forbidden. All employees are responsible for their conduct during the working day as well as after hours. Conduct that is not in compliance with the ethics and morality taught at Sunrise Christian Childcare may be grounds for immediate dismissal.

I, _________________________, have thoroughly read, understood, and agree to observe the requirements as outlined in the staff/personnel handbook.

THANK YOU for putting that up.

Do you see that what you have here isn't anywhere near the SPECIFIC conduct as Point of Grace? This ... to me... doesn't compare in any way to what they are saying.

With the exception of being specific about alcohol and cigs.... there isn't anything in there suggesting a homosexual would be forbidden from working there... someone who lives with an opposite sex person who is not an IMMEDIATE relative... someone who has sex outside of marriage... etc.

What I'm interested in with POG is that it's SO specific.

Now can I ask... do you work for parents who aren't living the christian lifestyle?

[Blackcat31]

I have no doubt the previous management team made strides in who they chose as employees and if Ms. Sarah is a Christian, parents are members of the church, she also attends, isn't interested in a relationship, etc. it makes no sense why her living situatioin should affect her job. Especially if she's not even having a relationship with the male roomate. KWIM?

I know many young, college students roommate right after school while searching for ideal employment.

I completely understand what the new management team is trying to do but how do you tell someone that has been employed for years that all of a sudden, they are good enough to employ based on their living situation?!

Hypothetical situation but what if Ms. Sarah lived in her female cousins house and the female cousin got engaged and had the fiance move in. Now Ms. Sarah has to find a new place to live just to comply with her employers request. That's just ignorant. Ms. Sarah's cousins fiance should have no bearning on employment...kwim?!

I know. It is a really complex situation and there really is no realistic way of being able to foresee all the different scenarios that each staff person could or does have and I assume each situation will have to be looked at as an individual situation but I also think they will either have to grandfather some current employees in regardless of the rules or they will simply have to make a fresh new start and not care who they have to fire or let go.

Either way, whether I disagree or not, it is still their (the new owners) right to make whatever rules they see fit to make for their business. It is no different than us doing interviews to see if potential families are a good fit for us. Which is really just another way of saying that we are checking to see if their ideals about raising, teaching and disciplining a child is the same as ours.

[satcook]

THANK YOU for putting that up.

Do you see that what you have here isn't anywhere near the SPECIFIC conduct as Point of Grace? This ... to me... doesn't compare in any way to what they are saying.

With the exception of being specific about alcohol and cigs.... there isn't anything in there suggesting a homosexual would be forbidden from working there... someone who lives with an opposite sex person who is not an IMMEDIATE relative... someone who has sex outside of marriage... etc.

What I'm interested in with POG is that it's SO specific.

Now can I ask... do you work for parents who aren't living the christian lifestyle?

A lot of the things you are talking about would be covered in the interview and those people would not be hired. Everyone who works here would have no problem signing the statement that Point of Grace is asking their employees to sign. That is the point I am making.

When I place my own children in this daycare I want to know that their teachers are Christians, living out the Christian life. That is important to me and to the school!

The parents in the daycare are not asked to sign any statement. If they would like their children at a Christian daycare with Christian teachers, then that is fine with us. What they do at home does not affect us.

Lori

[Unregistered]

Here's something to consider

Why should a person have to sign an agreement like the one that POG has? Is that piece of paper going to guarantee that the person signing it will honor it?

I would be much more comfortable with trusting the teachers to lead the lifestyle that POG requires without having to force them to sign a contract stating that they will. I would want free will to determine what kind of choices the teachers make with regard to how they live their lives.

Just a thought.

[wdmmom]

We ask them to read the staff handbook and then sign a statement acknowledging they have read it and will follow it. Here are some snippets from the handbook:

SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT
The teacher should:
 Have a clear testimony of salvation and ability to express it
 Make sure that any doctrine discussed in the classroom should be in alignment with Sunrise’s statement of faith or not discussed at all
 Be an active member in a church that is doctrinally sound
 Have a daily quiet time to be renewed, fed by the word, and prayed-up before entering the classroom every morning
 Remember and strive to include Christ in all our teaching styles and methods

THE MATTHEW 18 PRINCIPLE FOR SOLVING PROBLEMS IN AND OUT OF THE CLASSROOM
“And if your brother sins go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gather. Matthew 18:15-17

Problems are defined as work-related disputes or an employee’s expressed feeling of dissatisfaction with aspects of her/his working conditions and working relationships which are outside her/his control. There are several clear principles that Jesus taught in solving people-to-people problems: Keep the issue in confidence. Discussing the problem with others (gossiping) does not keep the matter confidential. Most issues are solved on the two person level. Keep the issue straight forward and in brotherly (sisterly) love.

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES
The use of alcohol, tobacco, and non-prescription drugs is strictly forbidden. All employees are responsible for their conduct during the working day as well as after hours. Conduct that is not in compliance with the ethics and morality taught at Sunrise Christian Childcare may be grounds for immediate dismissal.

I, _________________________, have thoroughly read, understood, and agree to observe the requirements as outlined in the staff/personnel handbook.

I think this would be appropriate for employees to sign. Not the new code of conduct.

HOWEVER, Tylenol falls into the catagory of non-prescription drugs. Does that mean I can't take Tylenol for a headache, Sudafed for a cold or Robitussin for a sore throat?!

[familyschoolcare]

Why should a person have to sign an agreement like the one that POG has? Is that piece of paper going to guarantee that the person signing it will honor it?

I would be much more comfortable with trusting the teachers to lead the lifestyle that POG requires without having to force them to sign a contract stating that they will. I would want free will to determine what kind of choices the teachers make with regard to how they live their lives.

Just a thought.

By having the employees sign an agreement, they can fire them if they do not follow it and under the law it would not be discrimination. Because, they did not uphold their end of the agreement.

[momofboys]

I thought many Churches sold discrimination as a product....

Yep, I am going to pay for that one....

Eh, I am still bitter about the whole Churches protesting at Military Funerals thing.... You know...the guys dying because of Religious wars and all

Just b/c one whacko church protests (and they are whackos) don't lump all Christians in the same boat. I believe it is just one church doing this. Please don't assume all Christians agree. That church is evil!

[momofboys]

Maybe it is just human nature to feel personally attacked by others? Maybe it depends on where you live as I'm not sure?
It seems the only news that gives Christians a fair voice is FOX, and I really don't care for their news! (to me they give Christians, conservatives, republicans...a bad name) ALL the editorials in our paper criticize Christians, especially in politics. Even in popular movies/tv shows Christians are usually shown as horrible people, and the non-Christians are the "better" people.
As for those Christians that say the earthquake is God's punishment on the USA, that really just proves my point. MOST Christians don't feel that way. MOST of us are praying for those that were hurt or had property damage...our churches are helping where/if needed in rebuilding or with financial support. Why is the focus on the bad only...I guess because it's newsworthy and it gets ratings because it gets people ticked off. The response of most normal Christians isn't going to get any tv station big ratings so they don't show that.
I don't shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I live my life the way I believe is right I hope I always treat others respectfully and would feel horribly if someone thought I was disrespecting them. I have many, many relationships with people that believe differently than I do. We can be and always will be friends-whatever our beliefs

ITA with this! Just because some influential Christian says something does not mean that ALL Christians believe in the same manner.

[Preschool/daycare teacher]

These people aren't applying. They have worked there and because of a change in management, now they are required to sign a code of conduct.

If a teacher was hired regardless of having a child out of wedlock and was residing with the child's father/boyfriend and the facility didn't have an issue prior to hiring, why is it now being condemned just because a new management team says so?!

And, how do you really know (I mean REALLY KNOW) whether any and all of these people are upholding this lifestyle? Are you the ethics police? Are you a fly on all of these people's walls?! Of course not!

No one ever REALLY knows anybody. For all you know your pastor is a closet drinker, he treats his wife horribly, etc. YOU nor anyone REALLY knows...

We all just HOPE that everyone lives a particular way, however, everyones beliefs vary as does everyones way of life.

I meant when they first applied, they should have assumed they'd be required to live the Christian lifestyle, since it is, after all, in a church. This whole thing of having to sign the agreement would be an issue if it had been at a regular preschool/daycare center that is not in the church and then they wanted the employees to sign that agreement. Since secular businesses cannot discriminate on religious matters. But a church is a CHURCH, and is seperated from the state. A catholic church wouldn't hire a morman to be their Pope:: But is that wrong, since it was in regards to religion?

When new management comes on board, the current employees are pretty much "new" to that manager. Things change when a new manager begins managing things. They are in charge now, and the old way of doing things are normally changed or done away with. The new director wants to make sure the employees representing that church and preschool are living the lifestyle. If the owner at the daycare I'm at now were to turn it over to me, I would probably change some things. Would I not have the right to do that, since I would be the one managing things now? The parents, I'm sure, would expect that since I'm a seperate person from the current owner.

I didn't mean that they COULD police the changes. But if they found out otherwise, they'd have the right to fire that person since they weren't upholding their end of the contract. Besides that, their conscience should get the better of them if they were knowingly not living in accordance to the Bible. I just don't see what is wrong with a new manager setting out some new policies for her employees that require them to behave as if they are related to a church. They would probably go through the list on a case by case basis, anyway. It's a heart issue. If the employee was living in an non-biblical way, they should find another daycare that isn't church based. However if there was some technicality, the employee could probably explain the issue and how it doesn't affect THEIR lifestyle. The media just loves to make Christians sound as bad as possible (and yes, there are some radicals out there who claim to be Christian, but aren't behaving like it). The whole story may not be reported.

Does anyone know the whole list of exactly WHAT the new director is requiring them to sign? I haven't found the full list yet. Maybe I'll change my tune a little after I see the whole thing But from what I've heard so far the new changes only make sense to me for a church preschool.

[mom2many]

I didn't mean that they COULD police the changes. But if they found out otherwise, they'd have the right to fire that person since they weren't upholding their end of the contract. Besides that, their conscience should get the better of them if they were knowingly not living in accordance to the Bible. I just don't see what is wrong with a new manager setting out some new policies for her employees that require them to behave as if they are related to a church. They would probably go through the list on a case by case basis, anyway. It's a heart issue. If the employee was living in an non-biblical way, they should find another daycare that isn't church based. However if there was some technicality, the employee could probably explain the issue and how it doesn't affect THEIR lifestyle. The media just loves to make Christians sound as bad as possible (and yes, there are some radicals out there who claim to be Christian, but aren't behaving like it). The whole story may not be reported.

DITTO! I totally agree with this!