Point of Grace Preschool in Waukee

[Kaddidle Care]

I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe.

Amen Sista!

Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

:confused: Never heard this one.

Even if they did, are you truly going to believe that a few nutters represent everyone?

Let's just agree to disagree OK?

[Unregistered]

NOPE

Parents care for their own children.
Staff assistants in the center care for center children.

(I'm not sure what you're saying here?)

Why is it okay to TAKE money from a parent who cares for their child and is behaving in an "ungodly" way but it's not okay to PAY a staff assistant who is caring for the center child and living in an ungodly way outside of work?

(Would you take money from an overweight parent? You won't hire an overweight worker!)

If they TRULY believe that it isn't good for the children then it's NEVER good for the children... not just when they are in care.

(Absolutely true! We all discuss on here plenty of times the things we think parents do that aren't in the best interest of the children. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.)

And what about their responsibility to the ADULTS? The staff should be working with parents who live an ungodly life? How is that good for THEM? Why are you just worried about the children? Why not the poor staff assistants who has to call two parents of one kid Mommy? Why should SHE have to have that conversation? Why should SHE be exposed to that?

(The "poor staff assistant" is exposed to much more then that every day of her life just as we all are. She is Christian, not in a monastery!)

That church can minister to the ungodly without having the other day care kids and the staff assistants exposed to it every day in their work environment. The staff who keep up their standards should have a right to only work with adults who do the same... that includes the parents.

(You're correct, the staff does have that right. They are not forced to work there. They can open there own daycare and have whomever they want for clients!)

IMHO Can't have it both ways.

If that business is a full center and have kids from birth to five I don't think they can pull it off. If they are just a preschool and have only three to five year olds for a few hours a week during the school year (Bev Boo style) they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

(I know plenty of places that pull it off )

When your staff pool is minimum wage workers that have one of the highest turnover rate of any proffession in the country.... you are going to have a really tough time tightening down that group to even a smaller subset and making it work UNLESS you got sompin special special for THEM. That would be higher pay then they can get anywhere else.

I put my responses in (). I'm on my kids' computer and so I don't have all the extra features. Sorry if it's hard to read
momofsix

[nannyde]

Would you take money from an overweight parent? You won't hire an overweight worker!

I do employ an overweight worker. I've employed an overweight worker for the last 2.5 years.

I wouldn't hire a morbidly obese worker (someone who is eighty to one hundred pounds overweight) because they can't perform the job "I" have here safely and timely.

I would take money from a morbidly obese parent because they can perform the job or role of day care parent safely and timely.

Of course there are different expectations for a staff assistant than a parent. The law demands that. The law says we can't have molesters working here or felons.

I have to follow those laws.

I'm specifically talking about morality. I'm saying I wouldn't hire a staff assistant and require them to have a higher standard of morality than I would expects clients who come to my home and bring their kids.

You can't see the difference?

I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

What I think doesn't make sense is that they require these moral attributes for their workers but they haven't put into writing that I know of that they only SERVE clients with the same values.

I live the values I think are right.
I hire the staff assistant that has the vaules that I think are right.
I only work for the clients that have the values that I think are right.

I don't take clients that don't mesh in with my values. I wonder if they do the same. To me, they are one and the same.

What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?

[familyschoolcare]

FWIW~ Our country was founded on religious beliefs. "One nation under God." Whether a person believes or not is beside the point, the constitution was written by religious followers. That is a fact. It may have worked then and not be working so well now but that is how it all started.

Americans have been taught to believe the concept that “a wall of separation of church and State” exists between religion and government. The truth is our founding fathers did not want any one Christian church to be preferred (have power) over another. Religion was fundamental to every aspect of life. They did not want religion out of government—they wanted government out of religion!

Exactly, for what ever reason people have forgotten that what our founding father meant by freedom of religion was we think everyone should believe in God just in their own way. The pressure to be religious was stronger than it is now back then.

[mom2many]

I'm specifically talking about morality. I'm saying I wouldn't hire a staff assistant and require them to have a higher standard of morality than I would expects clients who come to my home and bring their kids.

You can't see the difference?

That's your prerogative...but if a certain clientele wants something different for their child, then they would be serving a specific niche within our society.

I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

This contradicts what you just stated above. Okay...you wouldn't do it, but why can't they just do it and be left alone. Everyone wants to condemn them for who they want to hire. It's the employees choice if they want to work there or not!

What I think doesn't make sense is that they require these moral attributes for their workers but they haven't put into writing that I know of that they only SERVE clients with the same values.


I live the values I think are right.
I hire the staff assistant that has the vaules that I think are right.
I only work for the clients that have the values that I think are right.

I don't take clients that don't mesh in with my values. I wonder if they do the same. To me, they are one and the same.

Who cares who their clients are...that is irrelevant for others to be judging. I don't comprehend why this is an issue. For many years, I have witnessed parents seeking out a childcare environment that shares their values and if this school is expecting a certain kind of employee, then I'm sure it will attract those parents with the same belief system. They will embrace and welcome it!

The church is full of less than perfect people, we are all human...so that is our nature. However, I see nothing wrong with running a business and choosing who you wish to hire and making sure they align with your own beliefs and values. Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with allowing an innocent child to be put into an environment like this, regardless of whether their parents live up to the same standards required of the staff!

What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?

IMHO it doesn't matter.

[Unregistered]

This just seems wrong

I went to the church's website and I downloaded the application and the rules and I was kind of shocked. I don't believe that what I do outside of my core daycare hours negatively affects the care that I provide to my daycare kids. It's just offensive to me. Because I have a potty mouth outside of daycare hours, does that make me not fit to care for children? My daughter was born out of wedlock. Does that mean that I'm not fit to do what I do best: My job as a child care provider, which I do well and enjoy so much! I'm a very liberal person and even though I'm not gay, it's just because I happen to be straight. If I were gay, I would make no apologies for it because it's not my problem that there are people who can't handle the concept that not everyone loves the same way. I think it's amazing when people find love with one another, regardless of their sexual orientation.

That daycare will lose employees and families because the church didn't consider that the employees and parents may not be cool with the policies which all but trample on a person's civil liberties.

Disgusting. Just disgusting.

[nannyde]

IMHO it doesn't matter.

I don't have a problem with the center having these expectations on their staff. It's their business and their neche in the market. I could care less about their conduct expectations on the staff.

This contradicts what you just stated above.

Where?

Where did I say they can have whatever expectations they want on their staff?

I don't have a problem with them surrounding themselves and filling their business with what they believe is right and good as long as it doesn't break any laws. This doesn't AFAIK

It's a neche (sp) market .. promoting your godly staff as the caregivers.

What I want to know is if they TAKE money from the very people who drink, have premarital sex, don't go to church, are gay, cuss... etc.

THAT'S what I see as unethical. If you are going to say you believe in this then why not put that expectation on EVERYONE?

Again.... what full on birth to five centers do you know of that have a code of conduct similiar to this.. have it in writing.... so it's provable?

It does matter. This made the news here because it's something unique. If you are saying it's done all over the place and you know of plenty then why not tell us the name and point us to their code of conduct?

I think it would be terribly hard to run a 200 kid birth to five center with 50 staff and pull this off. I think the administrative costs of this would be huge. I think the turnover in this field is SO high that the pickings of just finding good WORKERS that come every day and stay more than a few months is SO low that if you subtract out of those workers the "godly" living ones you are going to end up with a very very small pool of workers.

Now if it's just a preschool doing "school" serving a small age group for a few hours a week with lots of breaks and no HARD work like caring for infants, serving meals, doing naps, etc... then that's a different story. I think you could pull that off.

[nannyde]

http://www.pointofgrace.com/site/images/stories/files/pog_academy_app.pdf

[Unregistered]

The application

I read that thing. I think that it's offensive. I think that it's a shame that their current employees have to agree to those rigid terms about how to live their lives if they want to keep their jobs.

To be honest, if I were employed by that place, I would have ACLU involved ASAP.

If this is all legal, it seems like it's just barely legal!

[nannyde]

That daycare will lose employees and families because the church didn't consider that the employees and parents may not be cool with the policies which all but trample on a person's civil liberties.

I don't think they will loose families over it. In fact, I think it will be a nice draw for them to promote their godly staff.

Think about it:

How many parents are looking for a child care that has NO TV so they can feel okay about the amount of TV they have their kid watch when the kid is on their clock?

How many parents are looking for a healthy diet for their kid so they can feel okay about feeding processed or take out food for their kid on their clock.

How many parents want a kid up ALL DAY LONG so they can have the kid sleep more on their clock?

It's REALLY common for parents to look for care that is the opposite of what they do.

I think their biggest client base is actually going to be the sinners.

My guess is... and this is a complete one hundred percent guess... is that they are having what many employers across the country are having with the new generation of workers.

My guess is that they are having a hard time dealing with the behavior of their staff. I think they are having problems with staff absenteism, interpersonal relationships between staff, baby daddy issues, baby mama issues, inappropriate contact with clients (facebook relationships, texting, outside of work contact), gossiping, low work production, cell phone addiction, legal issues that affect the workplace like salary garnishments, etc. etc. etc.

I think they know from previous experience that employees who are highly involved in church, live in their version of godly behavior, and do ministry for church are more likely to not come to the work table with behaviors that are easier for them to deal with as employers and they work at a level of work that is more conducive to what they want as an employee.

If they weren't having WORK problems with their staff and previous management I doubt that they would be restructuring by hiring a new director and setting these pre- and current employment standards.

I get it.

I strongly prefer families that have a farm background. My experience with families connected to the land is that they are easier for ME to work with, they have discipline and discipline their kids, they know how to work HARD so they work hard to keep our relationship going.

I strongly prefer staff assistants who are the eldest child in the family and who have much younger siblings. I have found that SA's who have the life experience of caring for much younger siblings and the household chores that are often put on the eldest female in a wide age group of siblings are very simliar to the work I have here.

They are trying to set up their staff to have the highest liklihood from their experience... to operate this child care. They have the added bonus of saying it is what God would want and the bad behavior isn't what God would want (see all their biblical citations with their expectations).

You can't go higher than God when it comes to setting up your code of conduct and they have protection under our separation of church and state laws so they are good to go.

Now will they be able to actually GET a staff and keep them? I don't know about all of that.

[wdmmom]

This pre-school/daycare is so worried about a code of conduct and ensuring that these childcare workers live up to their high standards.

It seems very discriminatory to me.

Are you going to kick patrons out of your church for living that way?! Even the strongest bible thumper is going to have a drink every so often. What about the guy sitting in the back pew that lost his job because he's an alcoholic? Are you going to condemn him too?!

WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!!!!

That is why some choose to go to church...forgiveness of sins. Even the holy book says that we are all sinners and we all sin everyday in some way, shape or form. (Of course not those exact words.)

No two families live the same. These are rules this employer is setting forth. I'm sure there is no "grace period" or excuse if you disobey.

(For example: If you just got a phone call telling you that your sister was in a car accident and they aren't going to survive, do you mean to tell me you aren't going to swear or even take the lords name in vain?!) I guarantee 99% of us would be guilty.

This employer needs to realize that this isn't the 1960's anymore. Women do not act all prim and proper like they used to and I think that is what they are expecting.

They want June Cleaver working in their daycare center wearing dresses and high heels.

When they get off their high horse and don't have any employees or so few that they can't operate, maybe they'll realize that this isn't a democracy!

[momofsix]

What Full on Centers do you know that have a code of conduct with these specific attributes that operate successfully with a group of birth to five? Can you give names of them and any direct info on the code of conduct content in writing?

Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about

[CheekyChick]

As for those Christians that say the earthquake is God's punishment on the USA, that really just proves my point. MOST Christians don't feel that way. MOST of us are praying for those that were hurt or had property damage...our churches are helping where/if needed in rebuilding or with financial support. Why is the focus on the bad only...I guess because it's newsworthy and it gets ratings because it gets people ticked off. The response of most normal Christians isn't going to get any tv station big ratings so they don't show that.
I don't shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I live my life the way I believe is right I hope I always treat others respectfully and would feel horribly if someone thought I was disrespecting them. I have many, many relationships with people that believe differently than I do. We can be and always will be friends-whatever our beliefs

I'm in total agreement. The media rarely portrays Christians in a positive light. We only see the crazy extremists. The ones who commit horrific crimes in the name of God. Ugh. Even on reality TV, if there is a "Christian" - I can guarantee you that he/she will be the nutjob of the group. It is so frustrating to see that scenario played out over and over again.

[CheekyChick]

Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about

I can only go by my children's Christian school and I am positive that what they're asking from their staff was the "norm" at our school. It was a large Christian school (700+) and there was no shortage of teachers or students willing to abide by the school's standards.

[nannyde]

Really?
I have lived here all my life. I myself have applied at many of these centers when I was starting out, filling out applications very similar to the one the Waukee church has. I have been involved with the Christian community in my area my whole life. I have been involved in the child care community since my internships in high school 27 years ago!
Please trust that I am not lying and I do know what I am talking about

Yes really

I'm not asking to call you out. I'm asking because I want to see what their standards are. I found the Point of Grace stuff and posted it. Do any of the ones you know of have their jazz online so you can see the standards and see what the center operations are (age group and capacity)?