Point of Grace Preschool in Waukee

[DBug]

I think this church-operated daycare is within it's rights, both ethically and legally. I feel for the people who may have to change their own lifestyles, and I hope the church gave them plenty of notice before they have to sign this.

But I have to also wonder -- if you're working for a religious organization of any kind, wouldn't you assume that you'd need to conform to their way of doing things at some point? For cultural reasons, my archaeology prof in school told us that if we did a field school in the near east, we (the woman only) would not be allowed to wear shorts. No one questioned it at all. Because we all assumed that stepping into an area with a different world-view/belief system would require some changes on OUR part, not on the part of the people already living there.

I guess I just figure common sense would prevail when applying for a job at a religiously-run business, IMHO.

[jen]

Personally, I'm good with this. I would much rather see an institution for what it is than try to sort through the charade of what it isn't.

In this case, I would say this daycare is selling bigotry and hate. For me, those are NOT the christian values that I subscribe to. I'm more of the "those without sin cast the first stone" and "love thy neighbor" sort of Christian.

By the way...the daughter of my gay sister goes to a private Catholic school. Her family is not only not Catholic, they are not christian. Not only does the school know, they support the child and family. Not all religious organizations are hate filled bigots....

Whenever I see institutions like the one in this article, I wonder how long it will be until we hear some Jim and Tammy Faye like horror story...just a matter of time I'd guess.

[wdmmom]

Personally, I'm good with this. I would much rather see an institution for what it is than try to sort through the charade of what it isn't.

In this case, I would say this daycare is selling bigotry and hate. For me, those are NOT the christian values that I subscribe to. I'm more of the "those without sin cast the first stone" and "love thy neighbor" sort of Christian.

By the way...the daughter of my gay sister goes to a private Catholic school. Her family is not only not Catholic, they are not christian. Not only does the school know, they support the child and family. Not all religious organizations are hate filled bigots....

Whenever I see institutions like the one in this article, I wonder how long it will be until we hear some Jim and Tammy Faye like horror story...just a matter of time I'd guess.

My thought is this:

If they want to instill these quality values in their employees, they should only be taking paychecks from people of the same values!

What are you betting they have several children on state assistance from single parent households and they have no issue collecting a check every month?!

Is it just me or is the pot calling the kettle black here?!

[youretooloud]

I'm fine with it too. I worked in a Christian school, and not only did WE have to sign that same agreement, the students AND their parents had to also.

Kids were kicked out of school for being seen drunk even if it wasn't on school property. Teachers were fired for having affairs.

Either agree to the contract, or work at a secular school.

[Unregistered]

I think they are within their rights. I do wish they had given more notice to the employees that they would either need to agree to these policies or find other employment. Unless this took awhile to hit the news, not a lot of notice was given.

This would probably operate on an honor code. If they find out that you are breaking it, you're fired on the spot, but I don't think they'll be hiring any private detectives.

FWIW, I know a local bible college I'd thought about attending at one point that is actually more restrictive then this. If you attend there, you can only wear specific things (skirts knees and down) and you can only listen to Christian music and read Christian books while in attendance.

I don't agree with all of their restrictions, but I do think that they are completely within their rights to do so.

[momofsix]

I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock:: I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come:: There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

[CheekyChick]

I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock:: I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come:: There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

Excellent post. I agree with everything you said.

[JaydensMommy]

I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock:: I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come:: There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

VERY well said! I agree with you completely!

[Crystal]

I was going to stay out of this until you posted that everyone and everything is OK except you......where in the world did that even come from? Who ever said that YOU (I assume you mean all Christians) and your beliefs are wrong and no one else's are?

On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.

Regardless of what this preschool/daycare is doing, the "Christians" have had their fair share of telling all of us "non-christians" that THEY are okay and we are not. Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

I understand you don't want an argument, but that was a pretty inflammatory statement, and a load of garbage to boot.

If you can't tell I am not religious at all, frankly I don't even believe in "GOD" and I am pretty tired of being told that everything and everyone else is Okay except me

[familyschoolcare]

I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock:: I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come:: There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

Exactly the church school trying to set an example and show how they believe people should live.

I too am a Christian and I am divorced. Was divorce when worked for a church based pre-school. Then after getting my BA in education worked for the same [lace teaching elementary school just after getting remarried all of that was not a problem even though I was required to "live by biblical principals" Because they understand that people are human and make mistakes and while there where things in my past that are not ideal Biblical speaking the current life and walk with Christ was not in question. However, if I had chosen to live with my now husband instead of marry him then I would not have been hired. This was an issue for my sister as a snooped in and got married before her even though I was engaged after her.

[momofsix]

I was going to stay out of this until you posted that everyone and everything is OK except you......where in the world did that even come from? Who ever said that YOU (I assume you mean all Christians) and your beliefs are wrong and no one else's are?

On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.

Regardless of what this preschool/daycare is doing, the "Christians" have had their fair share of telling all of us "non-christians" that THEY are okay and we are not. Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

I understand you don't want an argument, but that was a pretty inflammatory statement, and a load of garbage to boot.

If you can't tell I am not religious at all, frankly I don't even believe in "GOD" and I am pretty tired of being told that everything and everyone else is Okay except me

Maybe it is just human nature to feel personally attacked by others? Maybe it depends on where you live as I'm not sure?
It seems the only news that gives Christians a fair voice is FOX, and I really don't care for their news! (to me they give Christians, conservatives, republicans...a bad name) ALL the editorials in our paper criticize Christians, especially in politics. Even in popular movies/tv shows Christians are usually shown as horrible people, and the non-Christians are the "better" people.
As for those Christians that say the earthquake is God's punishment on the USA, that really just proves my point. MOST Christians don't feel that way. MOST of us are praying for those that were hurt or had property damage...our churches are helping where/if needed in rebuilding or with financial support. Why is the focus on the bad only...I guess because it's newsworthy and it gets ratings because it gets people ticked off. The response of most normal Christians isn't going to get any tv station big ratings so they don't show that.
I don't shove my beliefs down anyones throat. I live my life the way I believe is right I hope I always treat others respectfully and would feel horribly if someone thought I was disrespecting them. I have many, many relationships with people that believe differently than I do. We can be and always will be friends-whatever our beliefs

[youretooloud]

Just yesterday with the earthquakes inDC the Christians came out of the woodwork claiming this is God's way of letting us know that he is mad at Obama/governemt, etc. BARF.

But, those are not the normal Christians. I have a family member who is like this. She watches only the 700 club and Jerry Fallwell, and thinks these things too. I'm the first one to defend her, but I don't agree with her. She's a shut in, with absolutely no access to the outside world. Other that the 700 club.

Most average Christians didn't ever think it was about Obama. Most average Christians thought "Oooh.. how cool to live through an earthquake.. Praise the Lord nobody was hurt".

***************************

I personally think it's stupid that this was ever on the news. Sure it was an unpleasant surprise to the teachers, but they will get over it. I applied for a job at a Jewish Preschool... Guess what? They didn't hire me because I'm not Jewish. We have a half dozen Muslim schools within a ten mile radius... and they only hire Muslims. They expect a certain behavior and lifestyle too.

[Blackcat31]

On a daily basis I hear from the "Christians" about how they are the only one's who are right........it is being crammed down our throats left and right with the elections coming up.....being presented as the only way to run our Government, etc. I personally do not care about ANYBODY'S religious beliefs and feel everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they so choose, but please, keep it to yourselves and out of our Government.

FWIW~ Our country was founded on religious beliefs. "One nation under God." Whether a person believes or not is beside the point, the constitution was written by religious followers. That is a fact. It may have worked then and not be working so well now but that is how it all started.

Americans have been taught to believe the concept that “a wall of separation of church and State” exists between religion and government. The truth is our founding fathers did not want any one Christian church to be preferred (have power) over another. Religion was fundamental to every aspect of life. They did not want religion out of government—they wanted government out of religion!

[nannyde]

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

NOPE

Parents care for their own children.
Staff assistants in the center care for center children.

Why is it okay to TAKE money from a parent who cares for their child and is behaving in an "ungodly" way but it's not okay to PAY a staff assistant who is caring for the center child and living in an ungodly way outside of work?

If they TRULY believe that it isn't good for the children then it's NEVER good for the children... not just when they are in care.

And what about their responsibility to the ADULTS? The staff should be working with parents who live an ungodly life? How is that good for THEM? Why are you just worried about the children? Why not the poor staff assistants who has to call two parents of one kid Mommy? Why should SHE have to have that conversation? Why should SHE be exposed to that?

That church can minister to the ungodly without having the other day care kids and the staff assistants exposed to it every day in their work environment. The staff who keep up their standards should have a right to only work with adults who do the same... that includes the parents.

IMHO Can't have it both ways.

If that business is a full center and have kids from birth to five I don't think they can pull it off. If they are just a preschool and have only three to five year olds for a few hours a week during the school year (Bev Boo style) they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

When your staff pool is minimum wage workers that have one of the highest turnover rate of any proffession in the country.... you are going to have a really tough time tightening down that group to even a smaller subset and making it work UNLESS you got sompin special special for THEM. That would be higher pay then they can get anywhere else.

[mom2many]

I'm really praying what I type comes out the way I intend it to
I fully support this schools right to have their employees agree to this. As pps have said, if you are going to work for a church you should really expect to abide by their belief system. Also, if you send your child to a church-based school you should be able to expect the teachers to hold the beliefs of that church.

I fully expect that agreeing to the lifestyle clause is not the only condition of employment. I would expect that they would hire qualified childcare workers that care about children.

I also don't believe that they are being judgmental of others by doing this. It is a church-based school. That is what parents would expect of the staff working there. They aren't judging anyone or trying to change anyone, they just want the people that work in their preschool to have the same beliefs that are held by the church that runs/supports the school. If i were to teach in the public school system, I certainly would not expect to teach my kiddos about creation...I would have to agree to teach them the current scientific explanations. It would be silly for me to say they were discriminating/being judgmental for them to require that of me!

They may offer care to children of single parents, drug users...whatever. That is totally different. The children are not the ones teaching and guiding the other children. The adults are the ones with that influence and responsibility. Why would a church not want to help these kids-especially when there are so many of us that are unwilling to take them:confused:

I am trying to not get dragged into a huge argument here, even though that's what this whole post really is about. I am a Christian and am getting really tired of everyone and everything being OK except me and what I believe. I am a Christian-not a perfect person. I mess up all the time! I am a pastor's wife-and my first child was born out of wedlock:: I can't even hide it (not that I would, of course) b/c my dh and all our children together are of a different race and my dd is as blonde and blue-eyed as they come:: There are some that have looked down on me, but many more supported me and loved me even though they believed that premarital sex was wrong. They are the real Christians. It should not be about "judging" others. It should be about loving and caring and helping.

But, that doesn't mean we can't bellieve things are "wrong" either. Everyone, no matter where or when thay live(d) has some type of "code of conduct" that they believe is 'right'-always, all the time, no gray areas. The trouble comes when people place the worth of a person on his thoughts/beliefs/ideas. The other problem is when people elevate one "sin' above another. In God's eyes (the Christian God) telling a lie or gossiping is just as bad as murder! Wrong is wrong and we ALL fall short. So who am I to judge another person, that's God's job. But it is my job to do what He called me to do. If that were to run a Christian preschool/daycare then I would need to find like-minded people to work in it. If it were to run a public daycare I would still need to find the very best people to care for those entrusted to us, they just wouldn't need to be Christians
and now the kiddos are waking up and I don't even have time to proof/edit I hope this says what I intend it to!

Perfectly said! I could not agree with you more!