I Just Termed After 2 Days

[nannyde]

This may NOT be a rage baby as you call it or a parenting problem this is NOT always the case he could have some kind of special needs people should not always jump to conclusions.

How is it jumping to conclusions? This behavior IS rage behavior. It doesn't matter if he is special needs or not. The behavior is what it is whether it's because of a medical problem or psyche problem. It's still rage.

[momma4many]

The parent has to figure out that lying about it isn't going to get a provider to keep him. She needs to be refused time and time again so that she GETS that she has to find someone who knows upfront that he is unstable and is willing and able to work with him OR they have to rearrange their lives and be the only ones with him.

It's really sad. He's only fifeen months old and he has such severe issues that he really can't be in public.

I am begining to wonder if there isn't a combination of poor infant/toddler care AND a link to the mother going into the pregnancy and during the pregnancy having really poor nutrition. It makes me wonder if there isn't a connection between what the baby gets during in utero and what condition the mother is in before she gets pregnant AND what is then done with the baby once he/she is born.

I don't know why it's so bad now. I think it's:

poor health of mom before pregnancy
poor eating and general health during pregnancy
no training before kids are born on how to care for kids. NO generational teaching.
high expectation that the kid is going to be wonderful and motherhood is going to be awesome
baby comes and as soon as they get home from the hospital they realize it's super hard.
they don't want it to be hard
the dream starts to crumble
they start using motion, pacifying, hold me... walk me.. rock me... to get the kid to be quiet
they use battery stuff to entertain and motion the baby
they are "distracted" parents because they have a point and click instant gratification life with little sense of HARD WORK.
they don't do the work to do the things that make a baby easy to care for because they don't want any crying
they start feeding the baby the white grains and fruit first and then end up with a kid who won't eat meats and veggies
they pass instant gratification onto the kid which results in poor eating and poor sleeping
the baby starts doing high stimulation stuff like battery toys and tv
by the time they are nearing one they start eating processed foods especially sugar grains.
So by a year or so they have a baby on a bad diet, bad sleep, no discipline and they deal with all of this minute to minute to have as much peace as possible so they can lead the life they had before the kid. That life was a life of entitlement, junk food, constant distraction with phone, internet, tv

Just random thinking but there HAS to be a perfect storm happening right now. We just have to figure out what that is and how we fit into this.

I completely agree with you on all points here. I have seen this so much lately with interviewing and I am floored by it. I am forever grateful to my family for helping me with my children. I will always hear my mother saying, "Always remember you are raising ADULTS. These children will someday have to function in society. Do you want to see them suffer with not being able to cope or deal with real life? "

[cheerfuldom]

The one that I had emailed me again about the issues and I straight out told her everything I was seeing and what her options where in my opinion. What did I have to lose as they where already termed. She then posted a new ad looking for childcare and specifically said that the baby would not be a good fit for a daycare (and leaving her with a nanny option) so I guess maybe she learned something from our day and a half experience.

[nannyde]

I have seen this so much lately with interviewing and I am floored by it.

It's really scarry. It's so common now that it's now normal.

Babies aren't supposed to be hysterical all the time. They aren't supposed to have to have an adult just for them. If we were designed that way we would have never evolved.

[momma4many]

The one that I had emailed me again about the issues and I straight out told her everything I was seeing and what her options where in my opinion. What did I have to lose as they where already termed. She then posted a new ad looking for childcare and specifically said that the baby would not be a good fit for a daycare (and leaving her with a nanny option) so I guess maybe she learned something from our day and a half experience.

Wonder what they'll do if the situation continues until school age? Not just the family you dealt with, but every family similar to them. I always think about that when I hear about kids who have to have a nanny b/c they can't be in a group situation.

[Country Kids]

The parent has to figure out that lying about it isn't going to get a provider to keep him. She needs to be refused time and time again so that she GETS that she has to find someone who knows upfront that he is unstable and is willing and able to work with him OR they have to rearrange their lives and be the only ones with him.

It's really sad. He's only fifeen months old and he has such severe issues that he really can't be in public.

I am begining to wonder if there isn't a combination of poor infant/toddler care AND a link to the mother going into the pregnancy and during the pregnancy having really poor nutrition. It makes me wonder if there isn't a connection between what the baby gets during in utero and what condition the mother is in before she gets pregnant AND what is then done with the baby once he/she is born.

I don't know why it's so bad now. I think it's:

poor health of mom before pregnancy
poor eating and general health during pregnancy
no training before kids are born on how to care for kids. NO generational teaching.
high expectation that the kid is going to be wonderful and motherhood is going to be awesome
baby comes and as soon as they get home from the hospital they realize it's super hard.
they don't want it to be hard
the dream starts to crumble
they start using motion, pacifying, hold me... walk me.. rock me... to get the kid to be quiet
they use battery stuff to entertain and motion the baby
they are "distracted" parents because they have a point and click instant gratification life with little sense of HARD WORK.
they don't do the work to do the things that make a baby easy to care for because they don't want any crying
they start feeding the baby the white grains and fruit first and then end up with a kid who won't eat meats and veggies
they pass instant gratification onto the kid which results in poor eating and poor sleeping
the baby starts doing high stimulation stuff like battery toys and tv
by the time they are nearing one they start eating processed foods especially sugar grains.
So by a year or so they have a baby on a bad diet, bad sleep, no discipline and they deal with all of this minute to minute to have as much peace as possible so they can lead the life they had before the kid. That life was a life of entitlement, junk food, constant distraction with phone, internet, tv

Just random thinking but there HAS to be a perfect storm happening right now. We just have to figure out what that is and how we fit into this.

I'm not sure if it has really anything to do with diet because if you think about it I think children from the 70's had as much sugar in their diet as kids today. In fact they were probably the first generation with a ton of sugar in their diets.

I think rage kids are just very spoiled, hard headed children. In fact I have dealt with a few in my childcare and all came from professional families and all families ate extremely healthy, grew some of their own foods, active in the outdoors, etc. What I think happens is these kids actually have someone who tells them no (us the daycare provider) and they don't know how to handle it.

One of mine went into a rage and we had to leave storytime at the library. I actually had to call the last provider and see what she would do when this behavior happened and she said be very strict, stern and don't give in. This child had also been known to scream the entire way home (20 min) because she couldn't have a toy from here.

Have had children just scream at me/their parents that they don't want to do something. How many of you would have done that as a child or would let your child do that to you? Then I or parent have put child in time out and child has literally screamed for 15 minutes from this and my own children left because they were tired of it.

So bottom line is I think parents aren't strict enough and then when we come along the child panics because they won't get their way.

[PitterPatter]

I had this boy for 2 days and couldn't do it. I feel like a failure. No matter what I did, he cried. He would not play, just cry. On top of that, his mother was 1/2 hour late both days, Dad dropped him off 45 min early both days, going over part time to full time. He was inconsolable, scratching my face and slapping me. Why do I feel bad?! I cried after she left, and I'm worried she is mad and will make up some rediculous thing to call licensing about. But the relief is IMMENSE. I caught her in several lies (in 2 days! Obviously, she could not tell the truth about anything, including her son). When I asked her what they do at home to console him, she said she didn't know, her dh was home with him and they didn't talk about it. She said he didn't hit or scratch at home. Two seconds later, he was hitting her and scratching at her face/neck. I flat out told her it was a liability issue for me, he was going to hurt himself or another child. She just said, "Fine", and left. Guess I'm not superwoman after all

U probably did dodge a bullet! I have a child that was this same way even worse! He would act up in a rage when he didnt get his way, at times even leaving marks on me. We were at a playground 1 of the times when he acted out. It was time to go and he snapped telling me no and pointing his little finger at me and talking through clenched teeth. The other adults there were like "oh heck no" I explained he was not my child and tried to take him home. He slapped, pinched and scratched my face and when I picked him up to carry him he kicked me in my stomach, pulled hair out of my head and the repeated pinches to my face and neck so hard there were red marks left for days! I could only carry him for a few feet at a time before I would sit him down. I had to get him home so I endured it. I never left a stroller home again after that day! Even days I took the stroller it was a physical fight to get him strapped in when it was time to leave.

I would tell the DCM about this nd she would even see the rage when she dropped off and tried to leave. She would tell me just leave him lay on the floor and scream because she didn't know what else to do. BUT this child would stand up and slam himself back banging his head into whatever was in the way. I finally stopped trying to consol him and let him have his fit of rage in a pack and play. 10 -20 mins later he would calm and just have an attitude. An hour later we could play with blocks on the floor. Oddest child behavior I have ever seen! He was my only child at the time and I was desperate for the income so I worked with him. I called CCRR to get a behavior specialist's help after a few weeks of this rage.

He is much calmer now. Doesn't beat on me but will sometimes raise his hand to my assistant. He also gives these looks... I don't know how to describe them. They look like a convict expression, like a "killer thug" another DCP has said. BUT the beatings are gone thank God.

It is very dangerous having abusive time bombs like these kids. If I had other children in care when he was in his rages he would have been gone ASAP! U did the right thing!

[PeanutsGalore]

The parent has to figure out that lying about it isn't going to get a provider to keep him. She needs to be refused time and time again so that she GETS that she has to find someone who knows upfront that he is unstable and is willing and able to work with him OR they have to rearrange their lives and be the only ones with him.

It's really sad. He's only fifeen months old and he has such severe issues that he really can't be in public.

I am begining to wonder if there isn't a combination of poor infant/toddler care AND a link to the mother going into the pregnancy and during the pregnancy having really poor nutrition. It makes me wonder if there isn't a connection between what the baby gets during in utero and what condition the mother is in before she gets pregnant AND what is then done with the baby once he/she is born.

I don't know why it's so bad now. I think it's:

poor health of mom before pregnancy
poor eating and general health during pregnancy
no training before kids are born on how to care for kids. NO generational teaching.
high expectation that the kid is going to be wonderful and motherhood is going to be awesome
baby comes and as soon as they get home from the hospital they realize it's super hard.
they don't want it to be hard
the dream starts to crumble
they start using motion, pacifying, hold me... walk me.. rock me... to get the kid to be quiet
they use battery stuff to entertain and motion the baby
they are "distracted" parents because they have a point and click instant gratification life with little sense of HARD WORK.
they don't do the work to do the things that make a baby easy to care for because they don't want any crying
they start feeding the baby the white grains and fruit first and then end up with a kid who won't eat meats and veggies
they pass instant gratification onto the kid which results in poor eating and poor sleeping
the baby starts doing high stimulation stuff like battery toys and tv
by the time they are nearing one they start eating processed foods especially sugar grains.
So by a year or so they have a baby on a bad diet, bad sleep, no discipline and they deal with all of this minute to minute to have as much peace as possible so they can lead the life they had before the kid. That life was a life of entitlement, junk food, constant distraction with phone, internet, tv

Just random thinking but there HAS to be a perfect storm happening right now. We just have to figure out what that is and how we fit into this.

To Momma4many...good for you! I'm glad it didn't take you too long to remove the disruption to your sanity and the sanity of your household.

Nan, you make some good points. Especially about parenting skills, poor sleeping and the disconnect between what parenting really is and what this generation of parents expects it to be. I have to disagree about the nutrition thing because I live in an area where nutrition is pretty top notch. Organic, local, low-carbon eating are more than just buzz words, even for those on welfare. Cane sugar, artificial foods, fat, red meat and meat in general are no-nos, but maybe this leads to poor nutrition in the opposite direction. Plastic, electronic toys are the worst thing in the world and absolutely forbidden! What I would add to your list are parents who have kids for no particular reason other than it's part of the "package". They're trendy young couples, and a baby is a required accessory to make them cool with the in-crowd. Same goes for parenting skills. "Attachment Parenting" has also become a buzz word, but I don't think parents realize what they are doing to their kid when they raise it to expect to be held 24/7 by loving arms, then drop it into a daycare situation where that's just not possible, even if the caregiver is a loving person. But letting a baby CIO (or cry at ALL) will get you kicked out of some mommy groups around here, and mommy groups can be important to your sanity when your basic support system consists of childless friends, or family who lives thousands of miles away, so everybody does their own version of attachment parenting. I think there's a way to do attachment parenting while your kid is in daycare, but I think it has to be carefully thought out and planned in conjunction with your kid's temperament. And then, you have to find the absolute perfect daycare situation for your child.

I was also wondering about this a week or so ago, and I realized that some of the kids we might be watching are children of the first generation to be put on meds for ADD / ADHD. Maybe the babies we're seeing now are a result of the initial push to medicate at the slightest sign of ADD, whether or not the diagnosis was correct? About that time, the mindset of "it's not my fault" was also cemented into the general population (or maybe before this, but I wasn't aware of it!), so even if somebody wasn't on medication, they could still have been greatly impacted by the mindset.

Just throwing out more randomness into the pot to discuss. I talk about this with my parents all the time, and they tell me people don't know why they have kids, shouldn't be allowed to have kids, don't know how to take care of them, and pretty much just don't care about their kids. I have a hard time accepting that last bit, so I churn my brain to figure out what else could be the cause and come up with some crazy things sometimes.

Which is probably why I took care of a rage baby for 5 months!

[PitterPatter]

The parent has to figure out that lying about it isn't going to get a provider to keep him. She needs to be refused time and time again so that she GETS that she has to find someone who knows upfront that he is unstable and is willing and able to work with him OR they have to rearrange their lives and be the only ones with him.

It's really sad. He's only fifeen months old and he has such severe issues that he really can't be in public.

I am begining to wonder if there isn't a combination of poor infant/toddler care AND a link to the mother going into the pregnancy and during the pregnancy having really poor nutrition. It makes me wonder if there isn't a connection between what the baby gets during in utero and what condition the mother is in before she gets pregnant AND what is then done with the baby once he/she is born.

I don't know why it's so bad now. I think it's:

poor health of mom before pregnancy
poor eating and general health during pregnancy
no training before kids are born on how to care for kids. NO generational teaching.
high expectation that the kid is going to be wonderful and motherhood is going to be awesome
baby comes and as soon as they get home from the hospital they realize it's super hard.
they don't want it to be hard
the dream starts to crumble
they start using motion, pacifying, hold me... walk me.. rock me... to get the kid to be quiet
they use battery stuff to entertain and motion the baby
they are "distracted" parents because they have a point and click instant gratification life with little sense of HARD WORK.
they don't do the work to do the things that make a baby easy to care for because they don't want any crying
they start feeding the baby the white grains and fruit first and then end up with a kid who won't eat meats and veggies
they pass instant gratification onto the kid which results in poor eating and poor sleeping
the baby starts doing high stimulation stuff like battery toys and tv
by the time they are nearing one they start eating processed foods especially sugar grains.
So by a year or so they have a baby on a bad diet, bad sleep, no discipline and they deal with all of this minute to minute to have as much peace as possible so they can lead the life they had before the kid. That life was a life of entitlement, junk food, constant distraction with phone, internet, tv

Just random thinking but there HAS to be a perfect storm happening right now. We just have to figure out what that is and how we fit into this.

Yep this exactly! After having my "rage baby" for a year I notice DCM allows him to eat what he wants when he wants. He starts his day being by waking up 15 mins before he has to be here. He doesn't get food at home unless it's junk because she couldn't get him out of the house without it.

Issues start here when I say no food. (has gotten much better to sticking to that rule tho) She takes the items from him in the car and lies to him to get him in my house. Then lies again to get him to let her leave. (i have confronted her with this and she says its works and he trusts her, pfft not for long!)

At pick up he runs from her either because he doesnt want to leave or because he just thinks it's funny. She lies and makes promises if u go we will... or u can have... He hits her when she finally picks him up and they fight.

He goes home and gets put in his room to watch Nick the rest of the night and goes to sleep whenever he wants. Next morning, repeat.

[PeanutsGalore]

I'm not sure if it has really anything to do with diet because if you think about it I think children from the 70's had as much sugar in their diet as kids today. In fact they were probably the first generation with a ton of sugar in their diets.

I think rage kids are just very spoiled, hard headed children. In fact I have dealt with a few in my childcare and all came from professional families and all families ate extremely healthy, grew some of their own foods, active in the outdoors, etc. What I think happens is these kids actually have someone who tells them no (us the daycare provider) and they don't know how to handle it.

One of mine went into a rage and we had to leave storytime at the library. I actually had to call the last provider and see what she would do when this behavior happened and she said be very strict, stern and don't give in. This child had also been known to scream the entire way home (20 min) because she couldn't have a toy from here.

Have had children just scream at me/their parents that they don't want to do something. How many of you would have done that as a child or would let your child do that to you? Then I or parent have put child in time out and child has literally screamed for 15 minutes from this and my own children left because they were tired of it.

So bottom line is I think parents aren't strict enough and then when we come along the child panics because they won't get their way.

To the bolded parts: AMEN! I know that is a HUGE issue around here. Parents mistake creating a strong bond with their child with never saying "NO". Big problem.

[Cat Herder]

I feel the other causes listed are definite contributors.

I have to add that both of my Ragers over the years had parents who were very submissive, barely made eye contact, were not unified as a couple and revolved all decisions around the childs wishes to include meal decisions.

Both adults wanted to be liked the most by the child, well maybe even NEEDED to be liked. :confused:

The worst even had to be 3 hours late to work because the 3yo child did not want to ride in her car. Dad came home from work to drive her to daycare so mom could go to work.

No one was raising these two, just surviving them.

[jen]

I feel the other causes listed are definite contributors.

I have to add that both of my Ragers over the years had parents who were very submissive, barely made eye contact, were not unified as a couple and revolved all decisions around the childs wishes to include meal decisions.

Both adults wanted to be liked the most by the child, well maybe even NEEDED to be liked. :confused:

The worst even had to be 3 hours late to work because the 3yo child did not want to ride in her car. Dad came home from work to drive her to daycare so mom could go to work.

No one was raising these two, just surviving them.

There is a whole segment of the population who just lets their kids grow up as opposed to actually raising them.

[momma2girls]

I had to terminate after 1- 1/2 days as well. I started a little girl who was 15 months old. She had only been to daycare once before, and then I found out she was terminated from there as well. The little girl has been with Grandma since.
The day started out not so bad, for the first 5 min. then when she realized her Mom was gone, she threw a huge fit, and screamed kicking, etc.....
Her Mom gave me this 3 page letter, on that day as well. She still took a bottle in bed with her for her afternoon nap. She took a blanket and a paci all the time.
SO after 20 min. of screaming, I finally laid her down!! UGHH!!!
SO then it went on and on--- then another thing written on the note, was that she pooped all the time at nap, and she won't quit, til you change her. Ok, so I was checking on her periodically with all the screaming going on. Now she has woke up my 2 other infants/toddlers!!! UGHH!!!
She had pooped twice during her am nap- I changed her both times!! Then the 2nd nap, she pooped again!!
Then continued to scream and scream!! Then she kept throwing out her paci and her blanket. I went down like 3 more times, and placed those back in her pack and play, til I said Enough, is enough!!!!
SO she cont. to keep herself up by screaming and my 2 other children. I finally moved the other one, up in my bedroom to keep him away from her, so he could sleep!
She wouldn't eat, just screamed, wouldn't take her bottle(I wasn't going to give it to her in bed for nothing) this is the only way her parents say she falls asleep with her bottle in bed with her!!
Ok, so the afternoon nap was the same way- kept everyone up inc. herself!!!
Day 2- was the same way- I couldn't take it anymore, and called the Mom who was sitting at home- I told her I couldn't cont. this any longer!! I called her at about noon on the 2nd day, she wouldn't eat , drink, sleep, etc....
She came and was crying to me, that is when she told me , she doesn't know what to do with her-
I told her I would definately finish out the week, since they had paid for it.
She said no, I don't want to put you and the other children thru this , the rest of the week.
The Dad called and was furious at me!!! What a family!!!!! I told them they needed to stay at home with her, or a personal nanny 1:1-

[Unregistered]

How is it jumping to conclusions? This behavior IS rage behavior. It doesn't matter if he is special needs or not. The behavior is what it is whether it's because of a medical problem or psyche problem. It's still rage.

There is no such thing as a rage baby did you pull that out the air? Yes some children are more angry then others so are some adults. If it is a special needs child the anger is something he probably can not control. I feel bad for the child as no daycare wants him because they cant deal with them and I feel for the parents of this child also hopefully he gets some help when he is older or outgrows the tantrums or whatever it is he is having.

[nannyde]

There is no such thing as a rage baby did you pull that out the air? Yes some children are more angry then others so are some adults. If it is a special needs child the anger is something he probably can not control. I feel bad for the child as no daycare wants him because they cant deal with them and I feel for the parents of this child also hopefully he gets some help when he is older or outgrows the tantrums or whatever it is he is having.

Yes I pulled it out of the air.