Okay-Here's A Good One! So Mad!

[Live and Learn]

I am glad the dad offered to pay part.

For what it is worth I have a 4 year old dc girl who uses the toilet by herself all the time.....door closed but not completely KWIM? She has some special needs so she has only been potty trained for about 6 months. Never a problem.

I truly believe that most 4 year olds are completely capable of using the toilet without being naughty or making a mess.

I would keep a very close eye on your two little rascals though!!::::

[youretooloud]

I would be in huge trouble with my CCR&R if it was reported that I left a daycare child, not related to me, unsupervised in the restroom.

That just shocks me. I had no idea some of you had to supervise in the bathroom.

I almost never supervise. I do check, but I don't supervise. (not after the first five or so months of being potty trained.)

I have never, ever been asked to supervise either. If they need to be wiped, they better start yelling "I'm Do-ne!" Or they'll sit there for a while.

I don't think the kid should have been in a lot of trouble... and I can understand the parents not being MAD at him, but embarrassed, or apologetic, or something to make you feel better about it.

His consequence would be "Guess who's going to be watched each and every time he is in the bathroom from now on". Because at his age, he doesn't want you in there watching everything he does.

I don't know if it will help... but, I had some girls going through WAY too much toilet paper for a while. First, I confiscated the toilet paper, and they had to ask me for some... then I tried smashing to toilet paper tube so it was too much work to get off, and then finally, I bought the super cheap paper wrapped toilet paper from Walgreens and that put an end to the overusage.

I truly believe that most 4 year olds are completely capable of using the toilet without being naughty or making a mess.

Me too!

[Cat Herder]

Missani, I am sorry if you felt I was bashing. I am having a bad week and most likely did not come off well, again.

I was telling you it happened to me, too, how my State feels about it and their reasonings. Some of it is absurd and impractical at best. I tried many things to skirt around it but finally just had to limit my daycare.

It is one of those hot button issues and I did not think most would be aware of how harshly you can be penalized for an issue like this. I could be shut down during the investigation or worse.

IMHO, The rest of the posters were replying to other PP's that said the parents should be made to pay or the child should be terminated, NOT your original post. YKWIM?

[morgan24]

Oh, and since you don't have the layout of my home, I can *sort of* see into the bathroom from the stairs. I can hear, the door is left open, and I can see more than half of the bathroom. I cannot see the toilet. Therefore, I do not say that I am in visual supervision at every point. However, I do look in there almost the entire time, I can hear if they are playing in there (unless it's silent playing as it was this time), I can see the sink so I know they aren't playing in there. This bathroom is used for daycare so there are no poisons/chemicals in there and only cold water comes from the faucet. They are not allowed to use the sink in there (they come downstairs to wash hands). No one has ever been left alone for more than 60 seconds...ever..and that's if I was distracted and BEFORE any problems ever occurred. I usually stand on the top step/in the doorway/in the actual bathroom because we have scheduled breaks. BUT, when they have to go at other times, I let them (if I did not this would be a licensing violation-I cannot deny a child the chance to use the bathroom). I knew the child had issues, I was supervising, and we had gone over a month without unsupervised problems. The tp on the ceiling happened 2 weeks ago while my DH was supervising, and the hook thing happened when I was standing on the step (and I walked in immediately after because I was supervising). Safety is a big thing to me and I am certain these kids were safe. Just my house wasn't. Oh, and no, in my 15+ years experience I have never had a previous flush issue. Not that any of this matters, just clarifying.

And I still think almost 5 is old enough to know that playing with tp is unacceptable because it has been discussed so many times. Did he know what would happen if he flushed? Probably not, but he KNEW he wasn't supposed to be playing with toilet paper and he knew he had a "4 square limit" and an appropriate 4 square piece was there for him to compare. He told me from the look on his face that he knew he was wrong. I just want to teach him right from wrong. That's all I want, and he knew he was wrong.

I'm glad the parents offered to help pay something. I also wouldn't accept it. I let them go to the bathroom at that age by themselves also. They need to be prepared for when they start preschool where they will not get any help or supervision. I also work with parents to resolve problems. One thing I did to a dcb I had that like to use a ton to tp was keep it on the counter and when he had to go I gave him tp to take with him. That way he couldn't use 30 sheets at a time. I had to hand it out to everyone but that really didn't bother me.

[missnikki]

First of all, what a huge bummer! I feel for you, and I would be livid.

The thing is, I would be livid at myself. I agree that it is not the parents' responsibility to pay. I would hope for an apology, but unless they offer I wouldn't expect any monetary help.

Sorry, OP. I've tried to think about the parent's obligation and I cannot in good conscience justify asking for reimbursement.

[sahm2three]

I disagree with almost this entire post.

No one is condeming her. She made a mistake like we all have. It's just a costly mistake.

I don't care if a four year old is embarrassed to ask to go potty or to be supervised. They can't be here if that's a problem. I have to supervise them at all times. A four year old doesn't have a say in that. That's decided by grown ups who make laws and regulations... not a four year old and their four year old feelings.

Of course it could have happened right in front of her. This didn't. She wasn't in the room or next to the room when he did it. She was there before but not thirty seconds after.

The provider HAS a choice about how many children she cares for. If seven is too many too supervise the bathroom while doing the other tasks then she has to decrease the number of kids to the number she CAN supervise and do the other things.

This kid showed SO many signs that he couldn't be trusted alone in there. She knew he behaved badly numerous times before. Whatever supervision she is doing today.. could have been done yesterday. She's saying she will never leave him alone in there again... that means she CAN care for him and not leave him alone in there.

Your response seems to me to be from someone who would really never have to pay the damage for this kind of mistake. It's easy to SAY this but paying for it is a whole nother thing. I don't think there are any center employees who could afford a third of this kind of situation.

Do you supervise EVERY bathroom trip, 100%? If so, how do you supervise the other kids in your care at the same time? I think that is the point. Unless you have a team of helpers, which with in home daycare is not the norm, this is impossible to do. In this case, I think I would term this family. Sorry, but if a 4 year old can't go to the bathroom without destroying my house, then he is outta here!

[nannyde]

Do you supervise EVERY bathroom trip, 100%? If so, how do you supervise the other kids in your care at the same time? I think that is the point. Unless you have a team of helpers, which with in home daycare is not the norm, this is impossible to do. In this case, I think I would term this family. Sorry, but if a 4 year old can't go to the bathroom without destroying my house, then he is outta here!

I only have eight kid capacity and one helper.

[Missani]

First of all, what a huge bummer! I feel for you, and I would be livid.

The thing is, I would be livid at myself. I agree that it is not the parents' responsibility to pay. I would hope for an apology, but unless they offer I wouldn't expect any monetary help.

Sorry, OP. I've tried to think about the parent's obligation and I cannot in good conscience justify asking for reimbursement.

Just to keep this point from running rampant AGAIN, I am going to say ONE MORE TIME that I am NOT asking for compensation from the family. In fact, it has been offered and I am REFUSING it. I won't say it again, I promise, I just don't want to start another string of posts of "I don't think the parent should pay."

And, I don't think anyone is condemning me or being mean.

[missnikki]

Just to keep this point from running rampant AGAIN, I am going to say ONE MORE TIME that I am NOT asking for compensation from the family. In fact, it has been offered and I am REFUSING it. I won't say it again, I promise, I just don't want to start another string of posts of "I don't think the parent should pay."

And, I don't think anyone is condemning me or being mean.

I'm so sorry- I just read to the end of page one and responded...I didn't see there was a page 2, where you addressed this- SORRY!!!!!

And to answer your original question, yesI would expect an apology and be offended if I didn't get one, regardless of fault.

[countrymom]

at 4, they are very capable of going to the bathroom by themselves, dressing themselves and washing themselves. Kids go to school and I know the teachers don't ask the doors to be left open, teachers don't stand and watch the children use the bathroom.
as for the comment that teachers are not paid for bathroom breaks with the kids, well I don't know about you all but my taxes pay for everything school related, we even have papers that are sent to us asking which school board we pay taxes into.
also, I found it rude that it was mentioned that she should have less children so she can watch them go to the bathroom or get an assistance, obviously they make way more money than the rest of us to afford it.

[youretooloud]

at 4, they are very capable of going to the bathroom by themselves, dressing themselves and washing themselves..

I realize some states obviously have more rules on things like this. But, if I had a teacher watching and being involved in my four year old's potty-ing, I'd be kinda eeked out. Most kids are smart enough to use a bathroom by themselves.

In our schools the kindergarten teacher will not even go in the bathroom to help. If a child needs help, he or she must go to the nurses office and get help.

Teachers don't tuck in shirts, they don't buckle belts, they don't wipe bottoms. So, if the child isn't autonomous by kindergarten age, they shouldn't be in kindergarten. (not including special needs kids in this statement)

I work hard to give these kids life skills. If they can climb up on the stools, they can be up there... if they can climb the jungle gym they can be up there, But, until they can make it up there themselves, I won't put them up.

I expect WAY more from children than their parents do... and they ALWAYS rise to my expectations.

[dEHmom]

i mentioned this on another post a while back,

i would be ticked if i didn't receive an apology at the very least, and i would be upset if they didn't at least OFFER to pay the deductible or a portion of.

i'm glad the family offered, and that they are on board. it's the offer that makes the issue go away.

no matter how tempted i would be to take it, i would most likely refuse the offer for the money. but if they didn't offer, than i would be tempted to pull out the contract and request the payment.

[Unregistered]

kids were out of your sight

Because the kids were out of your sight, this family has no liability. Your licensing requires that the children be within your sight and sound at all times. Actually, if I were these parents, I would call licensing to file a complaint against you for admitting that you seem to always leave them unsupervised during their toileting. I guess you don't realize that the kids could turn on a tub faucet and crawl in and drown within minutes? I really can't believe that your post is true - I actually think you're making it up - why would you even think that the family has any liability? You were 100% at fault for leaving the children unsupervised and you would get fined by your state if a complaint was filed. Have you not had any training on supervision of children and the risks of bathrooms and water?

[Crystal]

I realize some states obviously have more rules on things like this. But, if I had a teacher watching and being involved in my four year old's potty-ing, I'd be kinda eeked out. Most kids are smart enough to use a bathroom by themselves.

In our schools the kindergarten teacher will not even go in the bathroom to help. If a child needs help, he or she must go to the nurses office and get help.

Teachers don't tuck in shirts, they don't buckle belts, they don't wipe bottoms. So, if the child isn't autonomous by kindergarten age, they shouldn't be in kindergarten. (not including special needs kids in this statement)

I work hard to give these kids life skills. If they can climb up on the stools, they can be up there... if they can climb the jungle gym they can be up there, But, until they can make it up there themselves, I won't put them up.

I expect WAY more from children than their parents do... and they ALWAYS rise to my expectations.

I don't stand in the potty while the children go and I don't stand there looking at them. The door stays open and I stand in the hallway, generally facing the playroom area while they do their thing. They are afforded their privacy, but they are still being supervised directly. I can hear everything and respond immediately if something is amiss because I am within a few feet of the child. I also do this to make sure hands are properly washed....no direct supervision and half your kids aren't gonna wash after wiping and touching the toilet

Here in Kindy, the children have restrooms in the classroom, so the teacher can supervise.

I don't think children are FULLY autonomous until 5-ish.

[nannyde]

I realize some states obviously have more rules on things like this. But, if I had a teacher watching and being involved in my four year old's potty-ing, I'd be kinda eeked out. Most kids are smart enough to use a bathroom by themselves.

In our schools the kindergarten teacher will not even go in the bathroom to help. If a child needs help, he or she must go to the nurses office and get help.

Teachers don't tuck in shirts, they don't buckle belts, they don't wipe bottoms. So, if the child isn't autonomous by kindergarten age, they shouldn't be in kindergarten. (not including special needs kids in this statement)

I work hard to give these kids life skills. If they can climb up on the stools, they can be up there... if they can climb the jungle gym they can be up there, But, until they can make it up there themselves, I won't put them up.

I expect WAY more from children than their parents do... and they ALWAYS rise to my expectations.

So, if the child isn't autonomous by kindergarten age, they shouldn't be in kindergarten.

You can have a kid that is completely autonomous to do these skills but it doesn't mean they are going to behave in the bathroom.

I supervise the kids going potty but I haven't seen the front of any kid pottying over the age of four. I might see their backside when they are wiping but I don't stand there and LOOK at them.