How Many Time Outs Is Too Many?

[MG&Lsmom]

I'm sure this is going to start a heated debate, so please let's keep this civil.

How many time outs in one day or one week are too many? At what point to do you do put them on probation or even start thinking about termination?

I've talked about my openly defiant dcg before and I'm just not comfortable with the amount of time outs or disciplinary actions I have to take every day she's here. I had planned on giving a letter on Friday stating that she was going on probation, but she was really good and I decided to give it one more week. Big mistake.

[daycare]

I had this same exact issue and I finally decided that I would not do a time out, that I would just do seperation.

The child was seperated from the group, but was still allowed to play with a few toys that I gave them. They did not get to participate in class, art, dancing, or ect. They had to play by themself.

I also talked to the parents about it in detail and we had to draw up a contract that if behavior did not improve within 14 days, then out they went.

Things have gotten better, and the seperation from the group works ok...

[littlemissmuffet]

Hmmm. This really depends. There are days/weeks when my most well-behaved kids are absolute terrors... and spend a good portion of their day on time-outs...
I wouldn't put on probation or term because I know the child doesn't usually misbehave and that something is usually going on to cause the disrupt in behaviour. Communication and strict "on the same page" tactics with the parents usually get everything back on track.

On the other hand, I have had children who have behavioural problems from the beginning - if I can't get them under control with the help of parents within a two week period, out the door they go.

[cheerfuldom]

Everyone has a different level of tolerance but if you are doing consistent consequence with no progress over a fair amount of time, then I would terminate. One good day is hardly progress if this is an ongoing issue. I also have done probationary periods (of two weeks) and then terminated. Normally nothing changes but it gives me the confidence in knowing that I have addressed issues with the parent as best as possible and have done what I could on my end to make it work. I don't separate kids for long periods of time. It is too much work for me. If the kid can't be a part of our day to day routine, the parent needs to find somewhere else.

[MG&Lsmom]

I should mention that she only comes 2 days a week on a rotating schedule: M/T then M/F. She's been here a month and is just starting to show some minor improvements in her behavior. I feel she would do better quicker at a center or with a one-one, but that with more consistency here should 'could' get better. I've done time outs-or breaks as I call them-and separation. Neither work terribly well since she's not learning from the experience.

DCPs and I are on the same page that she has to start behaving or she won't be coming here, but we have different approaches. I'm more of a calm but firm approach. They yell, stand in the corner, take things away, and threatening to spank. She responds to neither approach.

[daycare]

I should mention that she only comes 2 days a week on a rotating schedule: M/T then M/F. She's been here a month and is just starting to show some minor improvements in her behavior. I feel she would do better quicker at a center or with a one-one, but that with more consistency here should 'could' get better. I've done time outs-or breaks as I call them-and separation. Neither work terribly well since she's not learning from the experience.

DCPs and I are on the same page that she has to start behaving or she won't be coming here, but we have different approaches. I'm more of a calm but firm approach. They yell, stand in the corner, take things away, and threatening to spank. She responds to neither approach.

This is why I dont do any less than 3 days a week or drop in care anymore. The less time that they are with you at DC the harder it is for them to adapt to the rules, structure and the group of kids. I would tell the parents that they need to add and pay for a 3rd day, that it's just too hard to get her acclimated to the DC with an inconsistent schedule.....

[MG&Lsmom]

This is why I dont do any less than 3 days a week or drop in care anymore. The less time that they are with you at DC the harder it is for them to adapt to the rules, structure and the group of kids. I would tell the parents that they need to add and pay for a 3rd day, that it's just too hard to get her acclimated to the DC with an inconsistent schedule.....

That is exactly what I was going to present to them. They really should be paying for all 3 days anyway (M,T,F) for me to hold those days for them. I think both Mom and Dad really need a break so that's how I'm going to present it to them. Good for both of them

[MsMe]

This is why I dont do any less than 3 days a week or drop in care anymore. The less time that they are with you at DC the harder it is for them to adapt to the rules, structure and the group of kids. I would tell the parents that they need to add and pay for a 3rd day, that it's just too hard to get her acclimated to the DC with an inconsistent schedule.....

I agree. I do not allow less then three days. Some of it may be the child but I bet a big part of it is that she is only there two days.

[Lilbutterflie]

I definitely think that she should be there at least 3 days per week as the pp's have stated.

Even still, it may or may not work. I think I would do probation and making them switch to 3 days.

I have a dcb that I am on the fence with. He is full time. He is a notorious dangerous climber, though he goes in & out of climbing phases. Mostly though; he just does not listen to rules. There are days he has had 2-3 timeouts per day for a whole week straight. I've started to give him more one on one attention since I suspect his problem is his competition with two siblings; and that seems to be helping. Still there are some days he is going to do what he wants and doesn't care what the consequences are at all. I just posted about him; I just found boogers all over the wall next to his nap mat.

[ninosqueridos]

I had one who was always in time out, and ended up spending the day with more miserable times than happy times. I knew that without the parents' cooperation with behavior improvement, the relationship was going to end. And it did when I terminated. Not an easy decision, but I know that I don't have the key to all children.

[MG&Lsmom]

I told DCM about her most serious offense today (purposefully waking 2 other kids because I would not feed her immediately instead of getting them out of the car). DCM was not nearly as upset as I would have liked and kinda brushed it off. I told her that I spoke to dcg about her behaviors and if she continued to behave like this she would not be able to come here. DCM asked if it was a threat to dcg or was this a warning to the dcps. I told her that I have been trying to figure out how to get her adjust and that the thought had crossed my mind that maybe I couldn't help her. I told her that she's here too inconsistently and that I'm not sure if she'll ever understand that there are boundaries and rules here. I'm not at the point of terminating, but I'm uncomfortable with the amount of time she's spending in time out for serious behaviors. We had already spoken in the morning about how not being able to follow simple rules leads to not following more important rules (like not running into the road when we're outside). It's total chaos when this family arrives or leaves so it was not a very productive conversation. I'm not sure if they'll leave on their own since they have too few daycare options available. Not a lot of places here do SA and toddlers and allow for rotating schedules.

[nannyde]

Two days a week isn't enough time for the child to go native into your routine. Can you ask them to put her in full time for a few months so she can get used to your ways?

I rarely ever use time out (maybe once every year or two) because it doesn't work but I would NEVER consider keeping a kid who was misbehaving to the point where they were in and out it all day. I can't imagine how upsetting it would be to my other kids.

[Crystal]

I told DCM about her most serious offense today (purposefully waking 2 other kids because I would not feed her immediately instead of getting them out of the car). DCM was not nearly as upset as I would have liked and kinda brushed it off.

time out doesn't work. too many timeouts is even worse, as it is counterproductive.

not sure I understand your above post......they were sleeping in the car and she was waiting to eat? not sure if that's what you're saying or not?

[SilverSabre25]

time out doesn't work. too many timeouts is even worse, as it is counterproductive.

not sure I understand your above post......they were sleeping in the car and she was waiting to eat? not sure if that's what you're saying or not?

I read it as, there were two kids sleeping in the car. dcg wanted to eat, but MG&Lsmom was getting the two sleeping kids out of the car first.

[MG&Lsmom]

Two days a week isn't enough time for the child to go native into your routine. Can you ask them to put her in full time for a few months so she can get used to your ways?

I rarely ever use time out (maybe once every year or two) because it doesn't work but I would NEVER consider keeping a kid who was misbehaving to the point where they were in and out it all day. I can't imagine how upsetting it would be to my other kids.

I'm pretty sure that financially that's not possible, and I'm not willing to bend my rates too much to take on the stress it will be to get her adjusted.

I only use time-outs as a last resort, when redirection and modeling the correct behavior don't work or a behavior is unsafe. That's why I call them breaks. "You are showing me you can't follow the rules right now, let's have a break to calm down and then we'll try again." And that answers my question really. It's too much! She racks up 2-3 breaks a morning. She sleeps most of the afternoon 12:30-3 and she's gone by 3:45 at the latest.