What Do You Think About A Forced Apology?

[Meeko]

I make them say it. I don't say "tell Johnny you're sorry". What I do is have a brief, private talk with them, and finish by saying, "What do you think you should do now?" and they go and say sorry.

I don't care whether they understand it or not. I'm not teaching them to FEEL the emotion of remorse, I'm teaching them manners. We teach them to say please and thank you and excuse me, don't we? So why not sorry? For me, it's more for the manners than for blowing sunshine up the other kid's .... well, you know. I want them to know this is how society works ... you hurt someone, you say sorry. Easy. Makes it a habit just like please and thank you.

I'm with you 100% on this one Joyce. I too, think of it more as manners than an actual feeling.

I insist on please and thank you's. I understand that many of them might not really understand what the words actually MEAN. But they are learning good manners and the meaning will come in time. Who wants a 5 year old that has no manners? Saying sorry is good manners in my book.

[SandeeAR]

I make them say it. I don't say "tell Johnny you're sorry". What I do is have a brief, private talk with them, and finish by saying, "What do you think you should do now?" and they go and say sorry.

I don't care whether they understand it or not. I'm not teaching them to FEEL the emotion of remorse, I'm teaching them manners. We teach them to say please and thank you and excuse me, don't we? So why not sorry? For me, it's more for the manners than for blowing sunshine up the other kid's .... well, you know. I want them to know this is how society works ... you hurt someone, you say sorry. Easy. Makes it a habit just like please and thank you.

I'm with you 100% on this one Joyce. I too, think of it more as manners than an actual feeling.

I insist on please and thank you's. I understand that many of them might not really understand what the words actually MEAN. But they are learning good manners and the meaning will come in time. Who wants a 5 year old that has no manners? Saying sorry is good manners in my book.

Very much agree. I have a child that the parents were very insistant that she said, please and thank you at 18 mos. Now at 2.5, I have to insist that she say please, thank you and Yes mam and No mam. They now accept, the huh, and uh huh, that I don't.

Manners are on my list of house rules that are in my PHB.

[nannyde]

I make them say it. I don't say "tell Johnny you're sorry". What I do is have a brief, private talk with them, and finish by saying, "What do you think you should do now?" and they go and say sorry.

I don't care whether they understand it or not. I'm not teaching them to FEEL the emotion of remorse, I'm teaching them manners. We teach them to say please and thank you and excuse me, don't we? So why not sorry? For me, it's more for the manners than for blowing sunshine up the other kid's .... well, you know. I want them to know this is how society works ... you hurt someone, you say sorry. Easy. Makes it a habit just like please and thank you.

I've seen way too many situations where kids have been able to regain control of a situation by withholding the "I'm sorry". I've also seen too many situations where the child believes that if they say "I'm sorry" then that should be consequence enough.

If you don't go to "i'm sorry" the child is lost in the situation because they know from past "say I'm sorry" that they get to be done with their consequence so they want to get to "im sorry" really quickly. They become upset if saying "i'm sorry" doesn't end their troubles.

I GET what you are saying about manners BUT i don't think small children should just spout out words they can't possibly understand for a very long time.

I don't like to create chaos around an already chaotic situation. I don't like to stack additional layers onto whatever they have done. I don't like "I'm sorry" to be the end game of undesirable behavior. I don't like the "get out of jail free card" that kids over three covet when they have done something wrong.

When kids get in trouble I like to send one message: "I don't like that." accompanied by this: They look to me to see what is right and good because I'm their compass for good behavior. That's all I need when they are under four.

Once they get into the fours THEN i start to have more extended convos about whatever happened but I just do that when we aren't in the moment. That's the time (for kids I raise from birth) when they can start thinking more universally and are able to put themselves into the place of another child.

I really don't spend too much time on saying please and thank you though either. I like "well that was nice"... "oh I like that"... "would it be okay if I did ...." "oh yummy... could I have more"... "would you do me a favor?".. "that is great.... good job"..... "you rock"... "you rule"... "sweeeeet"

We just don't focus on the "manners" that quickly become perfunctory words that don't really mean that much to kids.

I'm not against having a focus on "manners" though. I think if that works for your situation and is in your culture of behavior then it's worth it to stick to it and have that on the table of good behavior. For me, it's just not that important. I like to go about it a different way that resembles more of our natural way of talking and communicating with each other.

[youretooloud]

I've seen way too many situations where kids have been able to regain control of a situation by withholding the "I'm sorry".

That's why I was asking. I had a parent demand an apology from his daughter, and she refused. It ended up being a big wet, slobbery disaster, and nobody was happy.

I didn't say "that's OK, no need to apologize" Because Dad was trying use it to teach her to say "sorry", but it was embarrassing for everyone, and she never did say "sorry", AND it wasn't something I wanted an apology for in the first place.

[nannyde]

That's why I was asking. I had a parent demand an apology from his daughter, and she refused. It ended up being a big wet, slobbery disaster, and nobody was happy.

I didn't say "that's OK, no need to apologize" Because Dad was trying use it to teach her to say "sorry", but it was embarrassing for everyone, and she never did say "sorry", AND it wasn't something I wanted an apology for in the first place.

I've been on the receiving end of that and all it does is stall when the kid leaves and gives the kid who CAN say "Im sorry" a stage to be the boss in front of me.

No likey that...

I think most parents who do this are really trying to say "I want my kid to have manners and know when they did wrong". I don't think it comes from a bad place. I think it's just a technique that can backfire on you and net the oposite results of the kid being humble and feeling remorse.

I also think it's a risky business when you start confronting a kids behavior in front of a parent who has been gone all day and didn't have a thing to do with the kid acting up. It puts them in a spot where they want a concise end to it right there and then. Apologizing is the clearest way for them to deal with it.

I only ask the parent to deal with the kid in front of me if it is really something serious which is most often a series of "breaking the law" here in one day. If I ask the parent to get involved it means I've exhausted everything I can do by myself.

In that case I don't want the convo to turn into something the kid has to do right then and there. I want the convo to be about what they DID not what they are going to do at that moment.

It's just a style I don't like because I don't see it working for how we communicate with each other in a normal course of a normal day.

[Lucy]

I GET what you are saying about manners BUT i don't think small children should just spout out words they can't possibly understand for a very long time.

I have to disagree. It goes back to manners. While they're too young to understand the polite words, they are just words. However, I feel we have to get them in the habit of those words. Please. Thank you. You're welcome. Excuse me. Sorry. I teach and expect all those words, whether they comprehend the meaning or not. Make them habit. I'm big on manners and treating people right. When they go out a door, they hold it open for the one behind them. Things like that.

For me, the "sorry" comes AFTER the consequence anyway, not INSTEAD of it. They get a brief chill time away from the activity, then we have a nice short quiet private talk, and that's when I say "what do you think you should do now?" and they know what comes next. Just like if they ask for a toy, or a drink, or whatever, and they haven't said "please", I will say "what do we say?" and they know "please" comes next.

Manners. Habit.

[Lucy]

I really don't spend too much time on saying please and thank you though either. I like "well that was nice"... "oh I like that"... "would it be okay if I did ...." "oh yummy... could I have more"... "would you do me a favor?".. "that is great.... good job"..... "you rock"... "you rule"... "sweeeeet"

We just don't focus on the "manners" that quickly become perfunctory words that don't really mean that much to kids.

I'm not against having a focus on "manners" though. I think if that works for your situation and is in your culture of behavior then it's worth it to stick to it and have that on the table of good behavior. For me, it's just not that important. I like to go about it a different way that resembles more of our natural way of talking and communicating with each other.

Traditional kindnesses are important to me. I don't want to be walking into the bank, hold the door open for someone, and have them go "you rock". I want them to say "thank you". I don't want to let the person with 1 item in the grocery store go ahead of me with my full cart and have them go "sweeeeet". I want them to say "thank you", and I will respond with "you're welcome". It's the way I roll. As you said, my culture of behavior.

[Blackcat31]

I guess after reading the last few posts I can see the logic and basis of both sides but to add a bit more about empty words, beside saying sorry, I have a young 3 yr old dcb who says "Excuse me" every.single.time. I am talking to anyone and then he freaks out when I do not immediately acknowledge him. This happens several times a day and so I talked with mom about it and she said that she has recently been working with him on certain manners including how to say "excuse me" when he wants to say something; however, now he thinks it means people need to stop immediately and pay attention to him because in my opinion he does not understand the 'why' behind the words and ironically because of that he is rather rude! LOL! It's like owning a super cool car and not knowing how to drive!

[Zoe]

I get what people are saying by the children saying "empty" apologies, however I have kids say I'm sorry mostly to make the "victim" feel better. I give a consequence and then have the child say I'm sorry. Whether they really are sorry or not, to me, it's important that the child who was wronged get an apology. I've known some very rude kids and I can't make them feel anything they don't want to feel. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let them get away with doing something wrong to a kid and not put them responsible for it.

Thankfully, I haven't had many kids who spurted out a rude apology. The majority of my little ones say they're sorry because they're friends with the other kid and want to be friends again. And THAT'S how friends make up. By saying sorry.

[Lucy]

I guess after reading the last few posts I can see the logic and basis of both sides but to add a bit more about empty words, beside saying sorry, I have a young 3 yr old dcb who says "Excuse me" every.single.time. I am talking to anyone and then he freaks out when I do not immediately acknowledge him. This happens several times a day and so I talked with mom about it and she said that she has recently been working with him on certain manners including how to say "excuse me" when he wants to say something; however, now he thinks it means people need to stop immediately and pay attention to him because in my opinion he does not understand the 'why' behind the words and ironically because of that he is rather rude! LOL! It's like owning a super cool car and not knowing how to drive!

LOL. I see what you mean if "excuse me" is used to "butt in". I use it for when they burp or fart. ::

[nannyde]

I guess after reading the last few posts I can see the logic and basis of both sides but to add a bit more about empty words, beside saying sorry, I have a young 3 yr old dcb who says "Excuse me" every.single.time. I am talking to anyone and then he freaks out when I do not immediately acknowledge him. This happens several times a day and so I talked with mom about it and she said that she has recently been working with him on certain manners including how to say "excuse me" when he wants to say something; however, now he thinks it means people need to stop immediately and pay attention to him because in my opinion he does not understand the 'why' behind the words and ironically because of that he is rather rude! LOL! It's like owning a super cool car and not knowing how to drive!

Perfect example of them not understanding the word and/or using only the part of the concept of the word to take over. He gets the right time to say it but he expects it means something different than it really does. He doesn't understand that the person hearing it has a CHOICE of whether or not to allow the "excuse me" at that time.

I've had kids beg another kid for a toy and repeat "please"... "please" ... "please". They think the word means they are to get something if they say that word. They are incredulous when the person says no. I get "but I asked her please". It means they only get the part of please that allows them their way.

[nannyde]

Traditional kindnesses are important to me. I don't want to be walking into the bank, hold the door open for someone, and have them go "you rock". I want them to say "thank you". I don't want to let the person with 1 item in the grocery store go ahead of me with my full cart and have them go "sweeeeet". I want them to say "thank you", and I will respond with "you're welcome". It's the way I roll. As you said, my culture of behavior.

When talking with adults my system wouldn't work. I think you would have however, been delighted to hear someone who you allowed to go first "oh that was nice... so sweet." with a kind and thankful face.

My kids learn the words sorry, excuse me, please, and thank you at home. Often it's used here in a way it's not intended so I stay away from expecting them to say it.

[DBug]

I've had kids beg another kid for a toy and repeat "please"... "please" ... "please". They think the word means they are to get something if they say that word. They are incredulous when the person says no. I get "but I asked her please". It means they only get the part of please that allows them their way.

This is why it drives me NUTS when parents say "What's the magic word?" when they want their child to say please. It's NOT a magic word that gets you whatever you want! But alot of kids end up with that impression

I'm with you, Joyce, on the apologies. We say sorry after doing a time-out. It's not about the instigator, it's about the victim, and about learning manners. Manners are pretty important around here, and yes, alot of it can be empty words, but that's okay. If I get a present I don't really like, I still need to say "Thank You" for it, even if I don't mean it. It's the same with "I'm sorry".

[nannyde]

This is why it drives me NUTS when parents say "What's the magic word?" when they want their child to say please. It's NOT a magic word that gets you whatever you want! But alot of kids end up with that impression

I'm with you, Joyce, on the apologies. We say sorry after doing a time-out. It's not about the instigator, it's about the victim, and about learning manners. Manners are pretty important around here, and yes, alot of it can be empty words, but that's okay. If I get a present I don't really like, I still need to say "Thank You" for it, even if I don't mean it. It's the same with "I'm sorry".

This is why it drives me NUTS when parents say "What's the magic word?" when they want their child to say please. It's NOT a magic word that gets you whatever you want!

::::::::::

That's a good one too. It's just another example of how it can be misunderstood by the kid. They are only taking the YES of "please".

I think the "I'm sorry" doesn't come up here because my kids don't do any kind of physical aggression on each other. The worst crime here is taking toys and that's for the kids under two. Most of the time they are doing something wrong it's breaking the "rules of play" we have that isn't directed at another kid but more rooted in safety. "Sorry" isn't appropriate... I just don't want them to do it again. They just need to know I don't like it and not to do it.

I don't like the method of extracting words from them. I think it puts a level of power into their laps and then conflict comes from their choice of whether or not to say it. I would rather not add that into the mix of the conflict.

[AnythingsPossible]

I make them say it. I don't say "tell Johnny you're sorry". What I do is have a brief, private talk with them, and finish by saying, "What do you think you should do now?" and they go and say sorry.

I don't care whether they understand it or not. I'm not teaching them to FEEL the emotion of remorse, I'm teaching them manners. We teach them to say please and thank you and excuse me, don't we? So why not sorry? For me, it's more for the manners than for blowing sunshine up the other kid's .... well, you know. I want them to know this is how society works ... you hurt someone, you say sorry. Easy. Makes it a habit just like please and thank you.

I have issue with the fact of making it a habit. I think sorry should only be said when you truly mean it, and frankly there have been times when though it hurt the other person, I'm not sorry for what I said. If that makes me a rude/bad person, so be it, but I think sorry should only be used when a person truly is.
My kids say sorry all the time, they aren't sorry for what they did, they are sorry they got caught or got in trouble, but not for what happened. I think it's more important to focus on talking to them about what they did, why it was wrong, and how it made me or the other person feel. I don't like the automatic sorry. If they leave the situation, and come back to apologize, that is different.
On the other hand of the coin, I am not the most polite person. I am kind to others in that I hold doors, let people go in front at the grocery store, help people who need it, however I am not good at saying "your welcome" or "bless you" when someone sneezes. I'm great with please, thank you, and have a nice day though!
I just really have an issue with the whole "you should say your sorry" I don't think you should unless you truly feel it, I do realize that we are talking about little guys and so they don't get the whole concept, but that's why I don't think it should just be automatic response.