Daycare Family Trying To Re-Collect Money Owed To A Provider!

[littlemissmuffet]

maybe you could make payment arrangements with them to pay back the $800 since it's so much? the problem is that you want to hold them to a contract that they never had, you might have verbally told them something, but what if they tell the judge "oh but we were friends, that's why we didn't have a contract" or whatever...you are kind of in a sticky situation where you were paid cash, you have no proof, they have no proof...if they get an attorney and take you to court, and win (which they probably won't since there is no proof since they have no contract and paid in cash) they can still go after you for court costs, attorney fees, etc...you could still end up with a bill significantly higher than $800, even if the judge says that it's a wash and neither of you owe anything...I would just pay it and be done!

The OP said that the parents have receipts up until the end of December. The parents have proof, the OP doesn't have anything but contracts signed by OTHER parents... I too would arrange a payment plan and chalk it up to an expensive lesson.

[cillybean83]

oooooo dear...Yeah I hope it works out

[MyAngels]

It seems, after reading through the thread, that the OP doesn't really want to hear opinions of other providers unless they are in agreement with his/her position.

I say gather whatever documents you think will prove your case, show up in court, and let the judge determine what's what. Do be prepared, however, for whatever that decision may be, whether you win or lose.

FWIW I can see the parent's side here, too, as I would have taken your refusal to provide care for that single day to mean that you would not provide care, period.

[squareone]

As long as you don't have to close your daycare to attend court, I would say fight it in court. Since there is NO contract at all, it's just their word against yours. So you have a 50% chance of winning, right? If you have to close for the day though, it's not worth inconveniencing other parents because of the mistake you made of not having them sign a contract.

One question for you though. When you told the mom that you would not watch her child for that day, did you specifically say just for today? Unless you said something to the effect that "You are welcome to bring her back tomorrow" or "I will see you tomorrow" then the mom was reasonable in assuming that you were terminating care for good.

6 weeks does sound like a long time but if that is the standard in your area then hopefully that will work in your favor in court.

[grandmom]

If you have no contract - they have no contract.

If you can't prove what the agreement was - they can't prove what the agreement was.

If they paid you in cash, they have no suit to make. You should go with your records and own up to what they paid, but THEY are the ones who have to prove they paid you anything.

Do not delete those text messages! Take the phone with you. Don't block them from your cell phone so that as they escalate, you'll have proof of their harrassment.

You had every right to ask a parent to go and cool off. If you really didn't tell them not to come back, then they could have come back the next day. DO NOT tell the judge that "if they would have apologized..." because that will be a big negative on you.

Take along to court a listing of what temp is was for the couple weeks before they left. And the licensing regs on going outside to show that you did not violate the regs. They just choose to not like your policy.

Take proof that you had to move with short time notice and take a receipt for fixing your computer.

Take the other parent's contracts to show your normal way of doing business.

Stay calm and factual with the judge.

I'd strongly encourage you to let this go to court. I think a judge would hear their harrassment, understand your dilemna with no computer, etc.

I disagree with the others, I wouldn't give up the money without a court order.

Good luck.

[momofsix]

I can see both sides here. If they are willing to take you to court, obviously they are not going to be able to deny that you had any type of business arrangement with them. If you think they seriously will go the court route, I would try to offer a settlement for maybe 1/2 of the amount. Even though you said that you sent them home for only the one day, I can see where that could ber taken as terming care. How would they be kicked out one day and welcomed back the next? That would be awkward all the way around IMHO.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

[nannyde]

There's a lot of good lessons in this story.

If you are going to take 800 dollars up front for care you need to make sure you have in writing that you get to keep that money OR you keep the money in reserve until you have earned it and then spend it.

The other lesson is how to handle that one fifteen minutes when you have a parent in your doorway asking something of you that you can't or don't want to do. You have to have your policies and your signed contract standing beside you in that doorway.

Having a high conflict arrival is going to put you to the test. It's THAT moment... the moment when you are giving them a money NO... it's always best to try to difuse the situation and put the "talk" off to another time when you don't have kids in the house. In this situation I would have most likely just told her I would need time to figure it out and tell her to think about it for a bit today. Once I returned the child to her in the evening I would have tried to ask for a time when we could all talk.

This parent, who did not confront the provider the day before, felt powerful the next day because she KNEW she didn't have a written agreement. She most likely found care that told her she must start immediately or very soon if she wants the spot. At that point she's not going to take NO for an answer because she KNOWS she didn't sign anything. Her only weakness is the fact that she doesn't have possession of the money.

When a provider tells a parent that she can't care for the child... even if it is one day... over money conflict or policy conflict the parent will likely never bring the child another day. The parent has what she was after... a REAL reason that could be taken back to the safety of her child.. to pull the kid. She did what most any parent would do after that high conflict. She left.

If you give the parent ANYTHING that can be taken back to the safety or happiness of their child they will use that as their reason to not honor their agreement. In that high time of conflict the message has to be... "I see we disagree on this... let's talk about it later... but I'll give little Missy a WONDERFUL day at day care... on baby.. and we will talk about it tonight... okay...

That will buy you some time to get your plan together and see where you stand. It's your only chance to try to work out some arrangement to make it work. If the parent refuses a money "no" then you will end up going to court. In the end you do NOT want to muddy the water with any "safety of my child" in the money matter.

I'm sure in a month or two we will hear that the provider was victorious.

[Unregistere]

Just a little more information...

There was no talking on the side of the DM in this situation. She walked in with an upset look on her face and immediately said she wanted the deposit refunded in cash and when I reminded her of what we agreed upon in the initial interview regarding deposits she immediately started yelling. She was yelling to the point that my neighbor next door heard her and asked me about it later that day. I did not raise my voice at any point but there was no reasoning with this mom and there was certaintly no "let's talk about it later." It was 100% clear that she wanted it dealt with at the exact point in time. The only way that I could end things that day was to tell her I would not be providing services for her daughter THAT DAY and walk away. Once I walked away she left.

I do not think a judge would think I was the one who would have been putting HER child in harms way that day when it HER that was yelling at me (infront of her child and the other daycare children in my care).

I believe I made the best decision for everyone involved that day. For the other children that I had in my care who certaintly do not need to be witnessing something like that...for her own child that she was yelling infront of and for my own mental health.

[SilverSabre25]

Not much to add except to ditto lots of the pps...you made a lot of mistakes this time around and will hopefully learn from them and change your way of doing things in the future.

I will say though that if I ever start taking a deposit of any kind--refundable or not and especially if its purpose is to cover the last weeks of care--I would put it aside in a special savings account and not touch it until those last weeks of care. Doing otherwise just seems to set one up for trouble. Besides...isn't the point of the deposit to guarantee income during those last weeks, or if the family decides to leave without notice? So...shouldn't you save it until you need it?

[nannyde]

Just a little more information...

There was no talking on the side of the DM in this situation. She walked in with an upset look on her face and immediately said she wanted the deposit refunded in cash and when I reminded her of what we agreed upon in the initial interview regarding deposits she immediately started yelling. She was yelling to the point that my neighbor next door heard her and asked me about it later that day. I did not raise my voice at any point but there was no reasoning with this mom and there was certaintly no "let's talk about it later." It was 100% clear that she wanted it dealt with at the exact point in time. The only way that I could end things that day was to tell her I would not be providing services for her daughter THAT DAY and walk away. Once I walked away she left.

I do not think a judge would think I was the one who would have been putting HER child in harms way that day when it HER that was yelling at me (infront of her child and the other daycare children in my care).

I believe I made the best decision for everyone involved that day. For the other children that I had in my care who certaintly do not need to be witnessing something like that...for her own child that she was yelling infront of and for my own mental health.

So you are saying she asked you to give her 800 dollars cash that morning? How would she even think you had that much cash in your house?

Why didn't you offer her a contract? I still don't understand how you could have her in your home for five months and not abide by what you said when you verbally agreed. Didn't you verbally agree to offer her a contract? Why her? Why do you have everyone else on contract but her?

[QualiTcare]

verbal agreements are only binding if both parties ADMIT to what the agreement was.

that's why it's so important to get signatures.

you are going to tell your story to the judge and when the judge lets them speak, they are going to say, "no, that was not the agreement. we don't have a signed contract bc we would never agree to that."

you then have to PROVE that the agreement you had with them was the same as the agreement you had with the other families. i've seen contracts that hundreds if not thousands of people have agreed to and signed that i wouldn't want my dog to put their paw print on - so just because other people signed a contract means NOTHING to this individual case and family.

[Unregistered]

verbal contract is just as valid as a written one in Canada and America .

[Unregistered]

Take it a a lesson learned. I'm in Canada, too. It's going to cost you more to fight it.

From now on:

Care does not start without both you and the parents having a signed contract. If you want to offer a 3 month term where either of you can call it quits without reason as nannyde does, then write that into your contract.

Parents get receipts EVERY month. That is for your protection as well as theirs.

Keep a hard copy of everything - technology cannot be trusted.

[countrymom]

I'm wondering if there is more going on with that family. I think its a cop out to suddenly change providers because the kids don't go outside. Heck we are inside today because its so cold (michigan ladies we have the same weather) I even had parents today ask me not to take the walk to the library. (you know its cold when your glasses are stuck to your face)
I would pay half back and thats it. But also, why didn't the parent ask for a contract or something written, its also the parents responsibility too. I also think, that asking for that much money upfront is just insane. I would reword some things in your contract.
But I watch alot of courts, and basically its going to come to down to a)you need to prove it and b)she said you said deal.

[nannyde]

I'm wondering if there is more going on with that family. I think its a cop out to suddenly change providers because the kids don't go outside. Heck we are inside today because its so cold (michigan ladies we have the same weather) I even had parents today ask me not to take the walk to the library. (you know its cold when your glasses are stuck to your face)
I would pay half back and thats it. But also, why didn't the parent ask for a contract or something written, its also the parents responsibility too. I also think, that asking for that much money upfront is just insane. I would reword some things in your contract.
But I watch alot of courts, and basically its going to come to down to a)you need to prove it and b)she said you said deal.

When they come up with something that can EASILY be fixed on their clock (like outdoor time... just have them outside for a few mintues when you get home and have at it... get up earlier in the morning and get em out before you go off to work) then you know it's almost ALWAYS about money.

I'll betcha they found a cheaper and easier day care that told them to get to enrolling now or they aren't going to have a cheapo slot for them. They want the upfront money from first provider to give upfront money for cheapo provider.

They had the opportunity to behave badly because they knew they could. They don't have the money now but they will. Knowing the provider wouldn't give it back didn't get them to pass up on cheapo provider. In the end they'll get both.

That's my guess.