Daycare Family Trying To Re-Collect Money Owed To A Provider!

[Unregistered]

For the record a verbal agreement is binding in Canada if you can prove it. Taking in copies of past and present signed contracts shows a presidence of how you run your business therefore making it alot easier to prove what was involved in the verbal agreement. It would not make sense to have your contracting clients sign to a 6 week notice in order to gain a refund of their deposit in services and then provide the family in question with a verbal agreement of a one month notice with a refund of their deposit in cash. This contridicts how you run your business so having these documents present will help alot.

[Little People]

For the record a verbal agreement is binding in Canada if you can prove it. Taking in copies of past and present signed contracts shows a presidence of how you run your business therefore making it alot easier to prove what was involved in the verbal agreement. It would not make sense to have your contracting clients sign to a 6 week notice in order to gain a refund of their deposit in services and then provide the family in question with a verbal agreement of a one month notice with a refund of their deposit in cash. This contridicts how you run your business so having these documents present will help alot.

How long was this DC family with you?

[Unregistered]

How long was this DC family with you?

This family was with me for five months.

[jen]

Huh, Personally, I would probably take it as a lesson learned and make sure I had a contract in the future. I do think it will be interesting to see how it turns out tho! Good luck! Let us know how it plays out at small claims!

[countrymom]

did this family pay you in cash or cheque. Because if it was in cash, I think both of you will have a hard time proving that money was exchanged. Now if it was cheque, all you have to do is find a cancelled cheque. How about reciepts do you have proof. See, to me, if they have no proof and you have no proof how can they say that you even watched them. Also, find the new daycare or even the old one, find out if they did this too others. i find it very ridiculous that they would term care because you didn't take them out. I'm from canada and I understand about not going outside, heck I'm lucky if kids come dressed.

[nannyde]

This family was with me for five months.

So if they were there for five months why didn't you get a copy of the contract to them?

[Little People]

This family was with me for five months.

So when you got your computer working why did you not have her sign a contract?

I am not trying to sound harsh, But I agree with other posters, get a contract and make sure everyone signs one. Alos have a few extra copies of everything, so if you have computer problems again you will have these already copied.

Sometime we think we can trust people with verbal agreements, but it will usually come back to nip you in the back side.

[Unregistered]

did this family pay you in cash or cheque. Because if it was in cash, I think both of you will have a hard time proving that money was exchanged. Now if it was cheque, all you have to do is find a cancelled cheque. How about reciepts do you have proof. See, to me, if they have no proof and you have no proof how can they say that you even watched them. Also, find the new daycare or even the old one, find out if they did this too others. i find it very ridiculous that they would term care because you didn't take them out. I'm from canada and I understand about not going outside, heck I'm lucky if kids come dressed.

They paid in cash for the whole time their child was in my care. They have reciepts up to the end of December. I only do up my reciepts every 3 months so they do not have reciepts for the months of January and February.

[Unregistered]

So when you got your computer working why did you not have her sign a contract?

I am not trying to sound harsh, But I agree with other posters, get a contract and make sure everyone signs one. Alos have a few extra copies of everything, so if you have computer problems again you will have these already copied.

Sometime we think we can trust people with verbal agreements, but it will usually come back to nip you in the back side.

I realize I should have gotten a contract to them asap. Due to alot of things going on in my life at the same time I put it off believing I could trust this family. (we found out the home that we were renting was being sold in November, had no more than one month to find a house within the area that we could purchase and move, then unpack, organize and get adjusted to the new home) I had never had a problem with them up until this point. It is more common here for daycares to run without contracts than for daycares to run with contracts so I guess I didn't see it as something I needed to rush at, I realize now though that I should have put it on the top of my list.

[Lucy]

Sorry, no contract = no binding agreement. Hate to tell you that. If your computer was not working when they first started, I understand why there was no paperwork signed, but if they were with you 5 months, you could have gotten them a contract in that amount of time.

[nannyde]

I realize I should have gotten a contract to them asap. Due to alot of things going on in my life at the same time I put it off believing I could trust this family. (we found out the home that we were renting was being sold in November, had no more than one month to find a house within the area that we could purchase and move, then unpack, organize and get adjusted to the new home) I had never had a problem with them up until this point. It is more common here for daycares to run without contracts than for daycares to run with contracts so I guess I didn't see it as something I needed to rush at, I realize now though that I should have put it on the top of my list.

I don't have parents sign contracts until they have been with me for a long time. Usually around the third to the sixth month I offer a contract. I am willing to have them leave without notice and would repay any in advance fees on the spot.

If you have three other families on contract and you didn't do it with them, I think the judge may wonder why THEM? Why would you allow THEM to not have a contract when you made sure everyone else did?

I think you need to be humble and return their funds completely and not waste another minute on this. You have to make mistakes in business to learn and you have made a big one. It's going to cost you a few hundred dollars and it will insure you don't make the mistake again.

If you don't have the money to give back to them then offer to make payments until you pay off the debt.

[Unregistered]

I don't have parents sign contracts until they have been with me for a long time. Usually around the third to the sixth month I offer a contract. I am willing to have them leave without notice and would repay any in advance fees on the spot.

If you have three other families on contract and you didn't do it with them, I think the judge may wonder why THEM? Why would you allow THEM to not have a contract when you made sure everyone else did?

I think you need to be humble and return their funds completely and not waste another minute on this. You have to make mistakes in business to learn and you have made a big one. It's going to cost you a few hundred dollars and it will insure you don't make the mistake again.

If you don't have the money to give back to them then offer to make payments until you pay off the debt.

1. What they are asking to be paid is $800 that is 3/4 of my mortgage payment...no I do not have the money upfront to pay them.

2. I did not refuse services to them for the month of February and they had already previously told me they were staying for the full month.

3. As a sucessful business owner I do intend to stand my grounds when it comes to my business. They were well aware of my policies and procedures when starting with me.

4. It's fine if you choose to let families walk at any point when only being with you for x number of months, but I do not. My income is what provides for my family and it is important I make sure that income is secure.

5. I realize that there was not a signed contract and I should have gotten them one as soon as I could have but I didn't, my mistake yes...means it's going to take more time and effort on my part to present my case before the judge but it does not mean that I do not have a case. If a LAWYER has already advised me on what to do and has told me that I have grounds to stand on and the chances of them winning in court are very small, I'm going to trust that LAWYER and go ahead and fight my case. I deserve respect if I let one family walk all over me it won't be long before another one does the same (contract or not it's irrelevant). If you look information on whether or not a verbal contract is legally binding or not I think you will be quite surprised with what you find.

[nannyde]

1. What they are asking to be paid is $800 that is 3/4 of my mortgage payment...no I do not have the money upfront to pay them.

2. I did not refuse services to them for the month of February and they had already previously told me they were staying for the full month.

3. As a sucessful business owner I do intend to stand my grounds when it comes to my business. They were well aware of my policies and procedures when starting with me.

4. It's fine if you choose to let families walk at any point when only being with you for x number of months, but I do not. My income is what provides for my family and it is important I make sure that income is secure.

5. I realize that there was not a signed contract and I should have gotten them one as soon as I could have but I didn't, my mistake yes...means it's going to take more time and effort on my part to present my case before the judge but it does not mean that I do not have a case. If a LAWYER has already advised me on what to do and has told me that I have grounds to stand on and the chances of them winning in court are very small, I'm going to trust that LAWYER and go ahead and fight my case. I deserve respect if I let one family walk all over me it won't be long before another one does the same (contract or not it's irrelevant). If you look information on whether or not a verbal contract is legally binding or not I think you will be quite surprised with what you find.

Well I guess I'm wondering why you are here. Are you here to tell us that we can secure deposits that are non refundable, not have one client sign termination notice agreements, have the other clients sign the notice agreement, and then expect the one client that didn't to give notice or loose their money if they give some verbal agreement?

I'm confused.

You are here to school us on verbal agreements in Canada?

I think it's odd that the one thing your attorney told you to show the judge is most likely going to be the one thing that shows the judge you didn't do your job... but I hope I'm wrong.

Good luck and follow your gut.

[cillybean83]

maybe you could make payment arrangements with them to pay back the $800 since it's so much? the problem is that you want to hold them to a contract that they never had, you might have verbally told them something, but what if they tell the judge "oh but we were friends, that's why we didn't have a contract" or whatever...you are kind of in a sticky situation where you were paid cash, you have no proof, they have no proof...if they get an attorney and take you to court, and win (which they probably won't since there is no proof since they have no contract and paid in cash) they can still go after you for court costs, attorney fees, etc...you could still end up with a bill significantly higher than $800, even if the judge says that it's a wash and neither of you owe anything...I would just pay it and be done!

[littlemissmuffet]

I realize I should have gotten a contract to them asap. Due to alot of things going on in my life at the same time I put it off believing I could trust this family. (we found out the home that we were renting was being sold in November, had no more than one month to find a house within the area that we could purchase and move, then unpack, organize and get adjusted to the new home) I had never had a problem with them up until this point. It is more common here for daycares to run without contracts than for daycares to run with contracts so I guess I didn't see it as something I needed to rush at, I realize now though that I should have put it on the top of my list.

I sure hope by "here" you don't mean Canada. I am in Canada and I have been running a home daycare for many years, a sibling of mine runs a home daycare and has for years, friends of mine run home daycares... we all use contracts... so do the many (there are 10 I know of, within walking distance from my home) home daycares in my neighborhood. I have NEVER heard of an established home daycare NOT using a contract.
As for charging monthly fees as opposed to daily/weekly/bi-weekly, and requiring a one month notice for terming care - yes, that is the norm for Canadian daycares.

Personally, I wouldn't go to court without paperwork relating directly to the case - judges hate that!

Lesson learned. Best of luck!