My Usual Tricks Aren't Working. Any Other Suggestions?

[Indoorvoice]

I have had dcg since she was 1. She is my favorite kiddo and she has always come in happy and ready to start the day. She gives me hugs when she enters and is generally just happy to be here. I have had zero behavior issues in the 3 years she has been here... Until now. Mom had a baby at the beginning of summer and she went down to part time. Mom is a teacher so this is our usual setup for the summer. Since baby was born, every drop off is horrendous. She will cry for hours. I have tried sending home but that is EXACTLY what she wants though so we thought maybe she continued the crying everyday to get to go home. So I temporarily put a stop to that because I REALLY don't want to term over this. I have tried giving her extra attention, I have tried giving no attention, I have tried the crying spot, I have tried bribing, I have tried having her earn "big kid activities". NOTHING is working. She cries harder. Mom and dad are reporting the same behaviors at home to the point where they are looking at getting her professional help. They have been on board in helping me and support whatever decision I make. What do I do?

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I have had dcg since she was 1. She is my favorite kiddo and she has always come in happy and ready to start the day. She gives me hugs when she enters and is generally just happy to be here. I have had zero behavior issues in the 3 years she has been here... Until now. Mom had a baby at the beginning of summer and she went down to part time. Mom is a teacher so this is our usual setup for the summer. Since baby was born, every drop off is horrendous. She will cry for hours. I have tried sending home but that is EXACTLY what she wants though so we thought maybe she continued the crying everyday to get to go home. So I temporarily put a stop to that because I REALLY don't want to term over this. I have tried giving her extra attention, I have tried giving no attention, I have tried the crying spot, I have tried bribing, I have tried having her earn "big kid activities". NOTHING is working. She cries harder. Mom and dad are reporting the same behaviors at home to the point where they are looking at getting her professional help. They have been on board in helping me and support whatever decision I make. What do I do?

So she is 4-years-old and doing this? I would ignore it for up to 4 weeks. If it continued past then I would have to put it on the parents to figure out completely.

[Indoorvoice]

She is newly 4. I was willing to give her some leeway because I figured it was tough with a new baby at home. I'm normally of the belief to let them get their feelings out and be supportive... But it feels like she is almost doing this on purpose or out of habit at this point? Is that even possible? I can't figure out her motive or trigger. When I ask her why she is crying she will give a list of answers: I miss my dad/mom/baby, I'm scared, I don't know, my belly hurts, my belly is hungry, I don't like my clothes, I don't want to forget my mom... Ugh she just makes stuff up! I miss my sweet, happy kid.

[Ariana]

How long did you do the ignoring? The parents are who she is looking for attention from and they are obviously giving it to her. Even if they say they aren't. The only thing that works is ignoring but it has to be the parents AND you together. It makes sense that this started when she stopped getting her usual attention once baby was born. A psychologist will be adding even more attention and they are really making a big deal out of this which feeds the behavior. I have gone through this with my own niece who acted up at drop off at 5 yrs old with me her aunt!!

The behavior must be starved of all attention.

[Blackcat31]

Rather than give her a crying spot (that she can leave when SHE chooses to.... done crying) I'd lay her down.

When she comes in after she says goodbye to mom/dad, give her the opportunity to stop crying and participate with the others....if she can't or won't stop crying I'd just lay her down to rest. I tell my criers (older ones) that crying means you're tired.

I have something similar going on and I did everything you are doing....but my patience is wearing thin and I figured out one day that this is silly.... kids have had to deal with siblings for eons now and it's nothing unique so the amount of attention they seek or we feel they need is out of control in my opinion and honestly at 4 (even a new 4) she totally understand mom will return and you are home away from home just as you've always been.

I think when we (adults in general) feel we have to make something of this, the kids figure it out pretty darn quickly and I don't care what skills they say kids develop when but I DO know that manipulation seems to be one the hone very early on....

[Indoorvoice]

How long did you do the ignoring? The parents are who she is looking for attention from and they are obviously giving it to her. Even if they say they aren't. The only thing that works is ignoring but it has to be the parents AND you together. It makes sense that this started when she stopped getting her usual attention once baby was born. A psychologist will be adding even more attention and they are really making a big deal out of this which feeds the behavior. I have gone through this with my own niece who acted up at drop off at 5 yrs old with me her aunt!!

The behavior must be starved of all attention.

Well currently I'm sending her to the crying area. As soon as she stops, I go over to her and welcome her join us, to which she immediately starts crying again. So I guess I'm half ignoring her. If I don't go to her when she stops she will fall asleep. I'm not sure if I should let her sleep because I'm afraid she will be awake all nap time. I suppose I could try it.

This morning she came in great because she knew she was my only daycare kid today. My kids were still sleeping and she asked to watch a movie. I'm normally screen free, but I let her (mistake) . As soon as the movie ended she wanted to watch another and I told her we were all done with TV and it was time to play. Instant tears saying I miss my mom.

[Leigh]

Well currently I'm sending her to the crying area. As soon as she stops, I go over to her and welcome her join us, to which she immediately starts crying again. So I guess I'm half ignoring her. If I don't go to her when she stops she will fall asleep. I'm not sure if I should let her sleep because I'm afraid she will be awake all nap time. I suppose I could try it.

This morning she came in great because she knew she was my only daycare kid today. My kids were still sleeping and she asked to watch a movie. I'm normally screen free, but I let her (mistake) . As soon as the movie ended she wanted to watch another and I told her we were all done with TV and it was time to play. Instant tears saying I miss my mom.

Awww. She misses her mom. Or, rather, she misses her mom letting her have what she wants when she wants it. I have a feeling that this will resolve as soon as she realizes she is wasting her time. At 4 years old, you can talk to her and she will UNDERSTAND that she is wasting her time and energy when you tell her so.

[Pandaluver21]

Is it tears, or is it a fit? If it's genuine sad tears, I would just give a quick hug and say "I'm sorry your sad" and go about your day like normal. You are still showing her comfort, but not letting it take over your day. It may take a while, but eventually she should get past it.
Maybe talk with the parents and see if there's a night (or day) they can have some one on one time with her (no baby) as a reward for being a "big girl"

[Ariana]

Well currently I'm sending her to the crying area. As soon as she stops, I go over to her and welcome her join us, to which she immediately starts crying again. So I guess I'm half ignoring her. If I don't go to her when she stops she will fall asleep. I'm not sure if I should let her sleep because I'm afraid she will be awake all nap time. I suppose I could try it.

This morning she came in great because she knew she was my only daycare kid today. My kids were still sleeping and she asked to watch a movie. I'm normally screen free, but I let her (mistake) . As soon as the movie ended she wanted to watch another and I told her we were all done with TV and it was time to play. Instant tears saying I miss my mom.

Yeah the parents are feeling guilty about not giving her all the attention so they give in to her demands. Poor kids world is being shook up right now. You don't want to feel guilty either. I went through this with my eldest and then it sort of dawned on me that she needs to learn that she is no longer the centre of attention. It is a painful process but the sooner she "gets over it" the better it is for everyone!

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Rather than give her a crying spot (that she can leave when SHE chooses to.... done crying) I'd lay her down.

When she comes in after she says goodbye to mom/dad, give her the opportunity to stop crying and participate with the others....if she can't or won't stop crying I'd just lay her down to rest. I tell my criers (older ones) that crying means you're tired.

I have something similar going on and I did everything you are doing....but my patience is wearing thin and I figured out one day that this is silly.... kids have had to deal with siblings for eons now and it's nothing unique so the amount of attention they seek or we feel they need is out of control in my opinion and honestly at 4 (even a new 4) she totally understand mom will return and you are home away from home just as you've always been.

I think when we (adults in general) feel we have to make something of this, the kids figure it out pretty darn quickly and I don't care what skills they say kids develop when but I DO know that manipulation seems to be one the hone very early on....

Once again, you are brilliant! I will be adopting this!

[daycarediva]

Rather than give her a crying spot (that she can leave when SHE chooses to.... done crying) I'd lay her down.

When she comes in after she says goodbye to mom/dad, give her the opportunity to stop crying and participate with the others....if she can't or won't stop crying I'd just lay her down to rest. I tell my criers (older ones) that crying means you're tired.

I have something similar going on and I did everything you are doing....but my patience is wearing thin and I figured out one day that this is silly.... kids have had to deal with siblings for eons now and it's nothing unique so the amount of attention they seek or we feel they need is out of control in my opinion and honestly at 4 (even a new 4) she totally understand mom will return and you are home away from home just as you've always been.

I think when we (adults in general) feel we have to make something of this, the kids figure it out pretty darn quickly and I don't care what skills they say kids develop when but I DO know that manipulation seems to be one the hone very early on....

No new sibling, but a new move/change in family situation has one 4yo doing the same here.

Happy here for 2 1/2 YEARS. All of a sudden- screaming/crying all day.

I IGNORE and send to the cry spot after a quick hug and reassurance that she can rejoin as soon as she calms down.

Doesn't happen though. If I wasnt done already, they would be getting notice.

[Blackcat31]

No new sibling, but a new move/change in family situation has one 4yo doing the same here.

Happy here for 2 1/2 YEARS. All of a sudden- screaming/crying all day.

I IGNORE and send to the cry spot after a quick hug and reassurance that she can rejoin as soon as she calms down.

Doesn't happen though. If I wasnt done already, they would be getting notice.

Once I stopped allowing them to have a choice in joining us (once they are done crying) the behaviors stopped.

If the option to get up when ready was there, it seemed the issue was awful and showed no signs of stopping.

Finally one day I just said I'd had enough.... what's that saying.... "If you've tried to tell a child a 1000 times and they still aren't getting it, who's the slow learner?"

Me!! I'm the slow learner....

crying and having a fit means you are tired. Go lay down. I will tell you when you can get up. Removing the option to get up changed everything. I know it's probably not PC and is probably frowned upon by some but for Pete's sake when are people (in general) going to figure out that we are allowing these little people to run the show and it's chaos! Planet of the Apes anyone?!? ::

So now my 2 yr old "used to be a screamer" comes in awesome! If he looks as if he is going to start screaming or starts screaming his mom or I will say "Oh-oh it looks like C must be tired" and he seriously ****s his breath in, puts a smile on his face and says "No I not tired. Bye mom!" and comes in like a rock star! happyface

[KIDZRMYBIZ]

Rather than give her a crying spot (that she can leave when SHE chooses to.... done crying) I'd lay her down.

When she comes in after she says goodbye to mom/dad, give her the opportunity to stop crying and participate with the others....if she can't or won't stop crying I'd just lay her down to rest. I tell my criers (older ones) that crying means you're tired.

I have something similar going on and I did everything you are doing....but my patience is wearing thin and I figured out one day that this is silly.... kids have had to deal with siblings for eons now and it's nothing unique so the amount of attention they seek or we feel they need is out of control in my opinion and honestly at 4 (even a new 4) she totally understand mom will return and you are home away from home just as you've always been.

I think when we (adults in general) feel we have to make something of this, the kids figure it out pretty darn quickly and I don't care what skills they say kids develop when but I DO know that manipulation seems to be one the hone very early on....

Thank you, BC, for saying so!!! I started using this very method for my nightmare drop-off kids. I know it isn't PC nowadays, but it IS common sense discipline to help a young child learn some self control. It works to deter any behavior, really (Aww, DCK, you must be very tired if you do XX here. You know that could hurt someone/self/break something/disturb babies/etc.). Really, it's just a time-out that takes all the power away from the child.

I have tried the bye bye outside, and it works...but the response is usually a PO'd mama bear that seems to think I am an unfeeling royal witch (with a capital B). It works, but in my experience it also damages the parent/provider relationship. It shouldn't-parents should not be so blind as to how things are from our side-but it is what it is. I've tried all other tactics as well, but none worked well for the long term.

I hope more and more people will come around to a more old-school method of child rearing. Bring back instilling excellent character traits such as self-control, respect for self/others/property, self-discipline, humility, modesty. All the important things have gotten lost in the early childhood curriculum hulabaloo.

[daycare]

I have not had a chance to read all, but this poor girl just had her world rocked and turned upside down. She went from center of attention to having to share it all with someone they don't even know yet.

I have had to deal with this many of times. Does she have a baby to take care of her very own? I have allowed my dcks to do this with the assistance of the parents and they are allowed to bring it to DC. I also make them my assistant and involve them in as much as I can. I pay no mind to the crying, don't even say the word or ask why they are crying. move on, business as usual.. I ask parents to include child in all baby matters when possibe like feeds, diapering, reading books, singing them songs. I bet she feels replaced instead of being a part of it.

[daycarediva]

I agree to a certain extent daycare, because parents do not really include the older sibling in the care/welcoming of new sibling. They're often sent straight back to daycare. They have already set up an unrealistic level of attention to the older sibling, too. The child is accustomed to 1:1. I have SAHM's who bring children here because they need to do housework. They WILL NOT do anything but play with child. Hence why child has to come to daycare, so the parent can do anything else. They cannot possibly maintain that level of attention at home 24/7, but with a new sibling? NO WAY.

BC- I wish I could, regs prevent me from leaving non sleeping children on mats. The only thing I can do is cry spot (and even that is frowned upon, my new registrar was SHOCKED that I wouldn't continually comfort this ONE child until she stopped crying). My registrar with a social work degree and no child care background or children of her own was trying to bribe her with candy from her purse until I said THAT was against regs (rewarding/using food)