That One Child......

[trippingontoys]

I have a little boy that started August 1st. I've known his dad for 25 years. The child is a handful, but I knew that going in. His parents discipline him at home and deal with his behavior. At my house we use time out. And then he goes right back and does the same thing again. Ive taken away toys or privileges. When he does something nice I give positive reinforcement. He likes to call the other kids names. And scream at them when he doesnt get his way. This morning before his mom even had time to walk out the door at drop off he looked at another child and said I hate you. Since he was at my house, I got down on his level and talked to him about it. He hasnt been too bad since the talk but I'm not expecting it to last. At nap time he refuses to be quiet. It takes almost an hour to get him to settle down and go to sleep. But he sleeps for 2+ hours so I know he is tired. And its affecting the rest of my kids. My group of once well behaved children are all turning into holy terrors. I will take any suggestion you have for dealing with this situation. Termination is not an option. He came to me from another sitter where he was exposed to things that are completely inappropriate for a child. We are in a small town where the options for care are limited. He can be a sweet child when he is alone. He just doesn't play well with others. I want to help the situation, not pass it off to someone else.

[Blackcat31]

I have a little boy that started August 1st. I've known his dad for 25 years. The child is a handful, but I knew that going in. His parents discipline him at home and deal with his behavior. At my house we use time out. And then he goes right back and does the same thing again. Ive taken away toys or privileges. When he does something nice I give positive reinforcement. He likes to call the other kids names. And scream at them when he doesnt get his way. This morning before his mom even had time to walk out the door at drop off he looked at another child and said I hate you. Since he was at my house, I got down on his level and talked to him about it. He hasnt been too bad since the talk but I'm not expecting it to last. At nap time he refuses to be quiet. It takes almost an hour to get him to settle down and go to sleep. But he sleeps for 2+ hours so I know he is tired. And its affecting the rest of my kids. My group of once well behaved children are all turning into holy terrors. I will take any suggestion you have for dealing with this situation. Termination is not an option. He came to me from another sitter where he was exposed to things that are completely inappropriate for a child. We are in a small town where the options for care are limited. He can be a sweet child when he is alone. He just doesn't play well with others. I want to help the situation, not pass it off to someone else.

How old is the child?
How long and how often is he in care?

If time outs do not work, I would eliminate use of time out.

What are the parents doing at home to discipline him? Is it working?

It seems to me if he is having repeat behaviors over and over, whatever methods of redirecting, guiding and discipline that is being used isn't working.

Also, any time a provider is unwilling to term one child that negatively influences a group of children, I cringe.... I would never put my livelihood, my business nor the safety and well being of the other kids on the line for ONE child. It's simply not worth it.

[Ariana]

What was he exposed to at the other daycare? Do you think it is causing this behavior?

Time outs do not work at all. Natural consequences are the only thing that i feel works. For example if he calls a child a name he gets to put a puzzle together by himself quietly...away from the other children. If he cannot settle at nap time he loses his stuffy, then blanket and then he gets placed outside the door or somewhere away from others. In a situation where the child is not getting along with others the consequence has to be seperation but it is not the same as a time out. Another idea is to come up with priviledges that the kids get for good behavior. They get to pick a book at story time, choose a game, play with a coveted toy for 15minutes etc. This can be used to reward good behavior. I do this all the time for cleanup. Whoever is the fastest at cleaning up gets to pick a game to play when the room is clean. Kids who do not clean up do not get to play with messy toys like lego or playdoh etc. I am a real hard a$$ about this!

Most importantly stick with it. It might not work the first few times, especially if this kid is stubborn, but it will eventually start working. Be very firm and assertive but never angry. Angry means he has won which is what he is looking for. Angry kids want you to react so don't.

Get the parents to do the same at home as well

[daycarediva]

Is he spanked at home? I find the worst behaved children are the ones who are hit. NOTHING you can do will 'top' that, and once they realize you aren't a physical threat, they rule at your house and it's nearly impossible to stop.

I agree with BC- I cringe when a provider will not let a child go when it negatively affects the other children in care.

I also agree with Ariana, he needs natural consequences and a LOT of ignoring/redirecting/positive reinforcement.

"If you can't use nice words, you cannot play with your friends. You sit here and color." (do something fun with the other kids)

I find giving expectations up front to be helpful for kids. We are doing X, we will (use nice words, inside voices, walking feet, gentle hands, whatever your rules will be for the activity). THEN give ONE reminder. "Oh, dcb, that's not the limit. If you do that again you will go sit and do a puzzle alone." and FOLLOW THROUGH.

[Ariana]

^^ GREAT question. Spanking at home causes a lot of issues.

[trippingontoys]

How old is the child?
How long and how often is he in care?

If time outs do not work, I would eliminate use of time out.

What are the parents doing at home to discipline him? Is it working?

It seems to me if he is having repeat behaviors over and over, whatever methods of redirecting, guiding and discipline that is being used isn't working.

Also, any time a provider is unwilling to term one child that negatively influences a group of children, I cringe.... I would never put my livelihood, my business nor the safety and well being of the other kids on the line for ONE child. It's simply not worth it.

He is 3.5. He is here 5 days a week 730am-515pm. His parents take privileges and spank. I realize the current methods are not working, that is why I am asking for suggestions. I've never had this kind of trouble in the 6.5 years I've been babysitting.

The other kids are not being harmed. They are just following his lead and misbehaving. Jumping on the furniture, not wanting to pick up toys, things like that. The parents of this child are friends with the other parents who have kids here and they spend time together outside of here. So termination doesn't remove this child from their lives. The boys mom has talked to me about his behavior and wants to help all she can.

What I have been told about his last sitter is there was an older boy belonging to the sitter that taught him to swear, talk about naked girls and their lady parts and to call names.

I have terminated kids before but it is always my last option. I am not joking when I say options are limited here. I quit my office job to provide child care because I would not leave my kids with the local providers. I have had most of my kids since they were babies. I go to church with all but one family. For me this is just not a 9-5. I love these kids. After my bunch goes to school I will be done babysitting. I am not emotionally equipped to look at this as only business.

[Pestle]

My challenging kids have one parent who spanks angry and another who runs to offer them anything they want. It's the tag-team of destructive behavior.

Does your layout allow you to section off a space for him with a play gate? I have a 21mo who used to bite; I would pop him over the gate each time and then attend to the injured child. Isolation is only a stop gap measure, but it did help the other kids feel secure (and me feel sane) while we worked on long-term intervention. Maybe you can spin it as a space that belongs just to him.

On the other hand, this kid's older sister goes into total screaming kicking hitting hysterics when she's disciplined, and knocks the gates down/scales them. So if your boy is like that, I don't currently have any effective solutions for you. If you find one, let me know.

[trippingontoys]

^^ GREAT question. Spanking at home causes a lot of issues.

I have.to disagree with that. All of my other kids have parents that spank and they are all good kids. I am old fashioned and don't buy onto the not spanking kids movement. I don't spank daycare kids because I wouldn't allow someone else to do that to my kids. I figure alot of people.will disagree with me on this, and that is their right. But the world would be a less screwed up place if a few more people would have been spanked as children.

[trippingontoys]

My challenging kids have one parent who spanks angry and another who runs to offer them anything they want. It's the tag-team of destructive behavior.

Does your layout allow you to section off a space for him with a play gate? I have a 21mo who used to bite; I would pop him over the gate each time and then attend to the injured child. Isolation is only a stop gap measure, but it did help the other kids feel secure (and me feel sane) while we worked on long-term intervention. Maybe you can spin it as a space that belongs just to him.

On the other hand, this kid's older sister goes into total screaming kicking hitting hysterics when she's disciplined, and knocks the gates down/scales them. So if your boy is like that, I don't currently have any effective solutions for you. If you find one, let me know.

My house isn't big enough to section off an area. Winter time is hard on everyone because during warm weather we are outside all day except for lunch playing on our 2.5 acre property. And the less outside time we have the.more problems we have.

[Blackcat31]

I have.to disagree with that. All of my other kids have parents that spank and they are all good kids. I am old fashioned and don't buy onto the not spanking kids movement. I don't spank daycare kids because I wouldn't allow someone else to do that to my kids. I figure alot of people.will disagree with me on this, and that is their right. But the world would be a less screwed up place if a few more people would have been spanked as children.

But spanking could be the culprit in this child's situation.

Just because spanking "may" have been a successful method of punishment or discipline for one child or even a 100 others, it is (or may not be) an acceptable or useful method for THIS child.

[trippingontoys]

I also think we need more of a schedule. I am a go with the flow sitter. And I sometimes think the lack of scheduled activities makes them a little hyper. So that's going to be my first change. Then if he is being bad, he won't get to participate in the activity we are doing. Also, maybe a reward chart. I am thinking about getting tablets but they will have to earn tI'm to play.

[trippingontoys]

I don't have any say so over the spanking since it's done at home. But if I can find a more effective method of correction I'm sure his mom would use it. He really stresses her out because she doesn't know how to deal with it either.

[Pestle]

Don't mistake correlation for causation--if your parents did X and you turned out okay, that doesn't mean you turned out okay BECAUSE your parents did X. Kids are resilient. A healthy child can thrive in spite of being hit.

I had a care provider who hit me, and I'd never do it to the kids in my care no matter what their behavior was. You can dress it up with another term, and say it's not hitting because you're only hitting the same spot each time, or that it's not hitting because you only use the flat of your hand or a specific wooden paddle, or that it's not hitting because it's in response to something the child does--it's still hitting, and the clearest memories I have of my early childhood are fear, confusion, and pain because of that woman. If that's the best way to instill good behavior, sign me out of the human race.

[daycarediva]

I'm not going to debate spanking. BUT, if this child is always spanked, he realizes that nothing is worse than that. It creates a level of distrust in child/adults. ESPECIALLY if his parents spank him out of anger (which is much different than my aunt spanked her kids. She would calm down, come talk to them, and then spank them, once on the bottom, if it warranted it in her mind). I was 'spanked' as a child, but this was more anger and it happened without warning. I would be doing something and then-smack while being yelled at. TWO very different households, both called it 'spanking'.

This is an ANGRY, DEFIANT child. He is that way for a reason. It is NOT going to improve at your home, no matter what YOU do, because it will not improve at home until his parents make drastic changes in their parenting.

Reacting out of anger teaches a child to equate anger with love. He does not believe that the adults in his life are trustworthy, he does not believe that the adults in his life are in control (because they aren't in control of themselves).

From your description, I was able to figure out the method of discipline used at home and why the child behaves the way he does. Every child I have ever had who has been 'spanked'- (in the angry, mean way), has acted similarly. I have had children from conservative christian households spanked in a loving manner, with a calm parent, reassuring words, hug and affection. Limits set and enforced and spanking only in EXTREME cases of poor behavior, not for every infraction without warning.

[daycarediva]

Don't mistake correlation for causation--if your parents did X and you turned out okay, that doesn't mean you turned out okay BECAUSE your parents did X. Kids are resilient. A healthy child can thrive in spite of being hit.

I had a care provider who hit me, and I'd never do it to the kids in my care no matter what their behavior was. You can dress it up with another term, and say it's not hitting because you're only hitting the same spot each time, or that it's not hitting because you only use the flat of your hand or a specific wooden paddle, or that it's not hitting because it's in response to something the child does--it's still hitting, and the clearest memories I have of my early childhood are fear, confusion, and pain because of that woman. If that's the best way to instill good behavior, sign me out of the human race.

this! I was spanked as a child, and it rolled into very abusive behavior from my mother. My earliest memories are of fear, pain, and it took therapy for me to not correlate love with fear and pain. Thankfully I landed early on in a good relationship because my dh has never laid a hand on me BUT it could have been very different had he not helped me seek therapy for my childhood.

I don't hit my own kids. I don't enroll families who spank.