Smoking Policy and References

[Thriftylady]

All I know is there are very few places that allow smoking on the premises around here so that tells me being around smoke in any kind of way causes negative affects. ??

Well maybe who knows. But, this is still a free country somewhat. So the government telling us what we can do at our home in our personal time is over reaching to me. I totally can see no smoking INSIDE the daycare. But outside when daycare is closed, is getting more communist than democratic.

[debbiedoeszip]

All I know is there are very few places that allow smoking on the premises around here so that tells me being around smoke in any kind of way causes negative affects. ??

Well, studies have shown that second hand smoke is harmful so I have no argument there. My question is where is the line drawn and why are the rules seemingly punitive and overly restrictive. For example, my mother can't smoke anywhere on our property even when daycare is not in session, but my neighbour can smoke in his backyard on the other side of the fence where the daycare kids are actually playing and that's totally fine. It just seems nonsensical to require that my property (not just home; nobody EVER smokes in my home unless they are asking to be thrown out permanently) be completely smoke free ALWAYS while it's perfectly ok for the kids to playing in a cloud of cigarette smoke generated by my neighbours.

[Mike]

is getting more communist than democratic.

The smoking topic can easily become a small war. Blackcat and Thriftylady are both right.

I've never smoked. Both parents do/did so you'd think I would also, but as a child, they smoked in the house and I had to leave the room whenever they lit up or I'd get a headache. They didn't care. They thought I was just imagining it. One year, we painted to cover the brown ceilings and they saw how much the smoke did to the paint, so they started smoking outside. Good to know the house paint is more important than my headaches.

I hate cigarette smoke to the point that I would never even date a smoker. The last few years I've been waking up every morning with smoker's cough. Yup, it is smoker's cough and is cleared up 2 to 4 hours after I get up. If I ever go to any place where there is smoking, I don't care what it is, I leave.

My opinion on all this...

Blackcat is right. Even smoking in the yard leaves contaminants.

Thriftylady is right. Saying smoking in the yard after hours is not allowed is a bit too far.

If I had children and used daycare, I wouldn't want any smoking at all, but then, I'd also make sure the provider lived by those standards. I wouldn't even leave my kids with family or friends who smoke for any period of time, not even my mother. Sounds harsh, but it affected me. I wouldn't let it affect my kids. Anything more than a short visit, she'd have to come to my place without cigarettes.


There is no easy way to decide where to draw the line because we could say no smoking on the yard, but the neighbors house might be only 20' away. Does that mean if they smoke, you can't do daycare? Or, do you just ask them if you can step on their yard to smoke? What about if your yard is 10 acres? If you go back 100', you still can't smoke? It's too complicated. Could just do the same as most retail areas do. No smoking within such and such a distance.

It should be illegal for anyone to smoke around kids, and maybe even for anyone to smoke in or near any place kids go regularly, but I know parents who smoke right inside their house, and it's not illegal. Some parents won't even care if their daycare provider smokes. Others wouldn't want any smoking even on the property. It's ultimately the parents choice. They choose a provider who meets their needs and standards.

[Blackcat31]

Blackcat is right. Even smoking in the yard leaves contaminants.

Thriftylady is right. Saying smoking in the yard after hours is not allowed is a bit too far.

Im not trying to be right. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's about choices.

My point is that if you (general you) do not like, agree with or support a rule.......do something about it.

Continually saying over and over that it's over reaching, unfair, not right, too much etc etc isn't productive at all.

I can write post after post and list after list of all the things I don't agree with or like in life but that won't do any good unless I am willing to be part of the solution.

My single point in this entire discussion is that no one forced anyone to apply for a license. No one required anyone to get into this field of work.

If you do choose to though and you sign on the dotted line when applying for your license you are agreeing to the rules they set forth.

If those rules don't fit in with your way of living or your personal beliefs you again have a choice....adapt and over come, fight to change things or do something else.

It's VERY similar to the concept of the serenity prayer

change the things you can, accept those things you can't and have the wisdom to know the difference.

(yes, I know the prayer in it's entirety...I am simply paraphrasing it's point)

[Unregistered]

When you smoke outside and come back in, you're carrying the smoke with you. The children are exposed to second hand smoke even indoors.

[debbiedoeszip]

When you smoke outside and come back in, you're carrying the smoke with you. The children are exposed to second hand smoke even indoors.

Yeah, I believe that it's referred to as third hand exposure. Where the toxins/carcinogens are on your clothing and skin/hair and can then be deposited on your furniture or others (through contact). My mom stinks after going out for a cigarette. DH and I have to mouth breathe around her it's just so gross. She never goes down to the lower level where the daycare is located, nor does she ever go to the backyard where the kids play. She is disabled and can barely make it to the front porch.

[debbiedoeszip]

Im not trying to be right. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's about choices.

My point is that if you (general you) do not like, agree with or support a rule.......do something about it.

Continually saying over and over that it's over reaching, unfair, not right, too much etc etc isn't productive at all.

I can write post after post and list after list of all the things I don't agree with or like in life but that won't do any good unless I am willing to be part of the solution.

My single point in this entire discussion is that no one forced anyone to apply for a license. No one required anyone to get into this field of work.

If you do choose to though and you sign on the dotted line when applying for your license you are agreeing to the rules they set forth.

If those rules don't fit in with your way of living or your personal beliefs you again have a choice....adapt and over come, fight to change things or do something else.

It's VERY similar to the concept of the serenity prayer

change the things you can, accept those things you can't and have the wisdom to know the difference.

(yes, I know the prayer in it's entirety...I am simply paraphrasing it's point)

We are doing something about it. We are choosing to provide childcare privately (which is completely legal). In most areas of Canada, childcare is in huge demand. Government and agencies can set any policies they want but if they want providers to be licensed then they had better set policies and demands that also work for the providers and their household.

Daycare isn't the only gig in town for me. Plenty of other employment opportunities I could choose from, but I happen to WANT to provide daycare. At this point, if I had no choice but to work through an agency, then I would find another job (and up to five families would need to look for care elsewhere). In many areas of Ontario, there are not only waiting lists for daycare (private and licensed), there are also fees to be on the waiting lists.

[Blackcat31]

We are doing something about it. We are choosing to provide childcare privately (which is completely legal). In most areas of Canada, childcare is in huge demand. Government and agencies can set any policies they want but if they want providers to be licensed then they had better set policies and demands that also work for the providers and their household.

Daycare isn't the only gig in town for me. Plenty of other employment opportunities I could choose from, but I happen to WANT to provide daycare. At this point, if I had no choice but to work through an agency, then I would find another job (and up to five families would need to look for care elsewhere). In many areas of Ontario, there are not only waiting lists for daycare (private and licensed), there are also fees to be on the waiting lists.

Perfect example..... agency rules don't work for you and your family. You are choosing to connect with other resources and operate in a legal manner in which you are allowed to do.

[Mike]

Im not trying to be right. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's about choices.

My point is that if you (general you) do not like, agree with or support a rule.......do something about it.

Continually saying over and over that it's over reaching, unfair, not right, too much etc etc isn't productive at all.

I can write post after post and list after list of all the things I don't agree with or like in life but that won't do any good unless I am willing to be part of the solution.

My single point in this entire discussion is that no one forced anyone to apply for a license. No one required anyone to get into this field of work.

If you do choose to though and you sign on the dotted line when applying for your license you are agreeing to the rules they set forth.

If those rules don't fit in with your way of living or your personal beliefs you again have a choice....adapt and over come, fight to change things or do something else.

It's VERY similar to the concept of the serenity prayer

change the things you can, accept those things you can't and have the wisdom to know the difference.

(yes, I know the prayer in it's entirety...I am simply paraphrasing it's point)

That is true. If you choose to do something that has rules, it's your choice to do it and even your choice how to deal with the rules. If you don't like rules, go on your own and you can run business any way you want. It's just a case of matching clients with providers.

When you smoke outside and come back in, you're carrying the smoke with you. The children are exposed to second hand smoke even indoors.

And that's why I don't even allow friends to smoke on my property. I've already had enough 2nd and 3rd hand smoke, and related toxins, in my life.

[Mike]

We are doing something about it. We are choosing to provide childcare privately (which is completely legal). In most areas of Canada, childcare is in huge demand. Government and agencies can set any policies they want but if they want providers to be licensed then they had better set policies and demands that also work for the providers and their household.

Daycare isn't the only gig in town for me. Plenty of other employment opportunities I could choose from, but I happen to WANT to provide daycare. At this point, if I had no choice but to work through an agency, then I would find another job (and up to five families would need to look for care elsewhere). In many areas of Ontario, there are not only waiting lists for daycare (private and licensed), there are also fees to be on the waiting lists.

My plans too. I remember reading a news article once about the government, Ontario at least, making plans to eventually make all daycare require registration. I said to myself that if I go into daycare and that happens, it'll be time to go into a different business.

[debbiedoeszip]

My plans too. I remember reading a news article once about the government, Ontario at least, making plans to eventually make all daycare require registration. I said to myself that if I go into daycare and that happens, it'll be time to go into a different business.

Yup, ditto. I live in an area with a decent economy and lots of jobs making about the same amount ($15-$20/hour?), even possibly working fewer hours for the same "take home" pay (though they do rotating shifts). If they make it so that I have to work through an agency then I'll be bowing out.

[Thriftylady]

My plans too. I remember reading a news article once about the government, Ontario at least, making plans to eventually make all daycare require registration. I said to myself that if I go into daycare and that happens, it'll be time to go into a different business.

I kind of feel the same way right now. I am legally unlicensed. And the smoking thing has nothing to do with it for me. I used to smoke, but can't stand the smell of it since I quit 9 or so years ago. But my county in Ohio has other laws that are way over the line, and aren't even state regulation, so I will never be licensed at least in this county.

[debbiedoeszip]

And that's why I don't even allow friends to smoke on my property. I've already had enough 2nd and 3rd hand smoke, and related toxins, in my life.

It's somewhat unavoidable in almost every other environment though. For example, I just finished working in a call center for the last two years. You can't prevent the employee, who has just returned from having a cigarette on their break, from sitting next to you. You can't tell someone on the bus not to sit next to you. Or the person standing line ahead or behind you. Or what about the daycare parent, who smokes, and picks up or drops off their child while smelling strongly of cigarettes? Are you going to deny them access? Term them?

I don't smoke and I also have an allergy to tobacco. I don't think that I can adequately describe how much I wish that I could always avoid cigarette smoke, but the reality is that I can't, so I'm not going to try other than not allowing smoking ever in my home, and only allowing smoking outside during non-daycare hours.

[Thriftylady]

It's somewhat unavoidable in almost every other environment though. For example, I just finished working in a call center for the last two years. You can't prevent the employee, who has just returned from having a cigarette on their break, from sitting next to you. You can't tell someone on the bus not to sit next to you. Or the person standing line ahead or behind you. Or what about the daycare parent, who smokes, and picks up or drops off their child while smelling strongly of cigarettes? Are you going to deny them access? Term them?

I don't smoke and I also have an allergy to tobacco. I don't think that I can adequately describe how much I wish that I could always avoid cigarette smoke, but the reality is that I can't, so I'm not going to try other than not allowing smoking ever in my home, and only allowing smoking outside during non-daycare hours.

Totally agree with you on all counts, and do the same thing as I bolded. Most of my visitors don't smoke either though. Most of my daycare parents do smoke, and most do it around their children.

[Annalee]

Well, studies have shown that second hand smoke is harmful so I have no argument there. My question is where is the line drawn and why are the rules seemingly punitive and overly restrictive. For example, my mother can't smoke anywhere on our property even when daycare is not in session, but my neighbour can smoke in his backyard on the other side of the fence where the daycare kids are actually playing and that's totally fine. It just seems nonsensical to require that my property (not just home; nobody EVER smokes in my home unless they are asking to be thrown out permanently) be completely smoke free ALWAYS while it's perfectly ok for the kids to playing in a cloud of cigarette smoke generated by my neighbours.

Not sure if the state should draw the line or not on cigarette smoke....but similarly, my neighbor walks his dog regularly....and one day while doing so he ventured into my drive while licensing was here....i was informed if the neighbor's dog left feces in my yard, I was to blame so I ASSUME if the neighbor has cigarette smoke coming into my yard I would be to blame....or at least would be expected to take the kids inside to avoid the smoke....not saying this is fair, but when being regulated by the state, their rules trump how I feel personally about the issue ????