Curbing the "Well MY Mom Says..."

[Mom2Two]

Some cute suggestions above. And undermining my authority is one of the things that really makes my blood boil. I'm not sure I could stand it, honestly.

My own son liked to ague with me when he was young. I used to swear that I could hire him out as a trial lawyer even as a preschooler. Anyway, in the end, I actually made arguing against the rules. I did tell him that he could say anything to me as long as it was respectful or an emergency. But I did have to get firm with him about it. It drove me crazy, because of course it was just random, ridiculous arguing. I think it must have been for attention or something--to keep me busy with him.

Another thought, at four years, chores have often worked as a consequence for me.

[Mom2Two]

But part of me is fantasizing about returning the favor to the parents: "Oh, BTW I told Johnny that he could eat as much candy as he wants when he gets home/doesn't have to do to bed on time/you're getting him a puppy for his birthday/can use bad words" etc etc.

[rosieteddy]

I just saw the cutest video on face book.Titled this kid should be a lawyer.Linda linda linda then an argument why he should get what he wants. If I knew how to copy and paste I would share it. Anyhow. as to your problem I would call the parents on it.Then I would ask for a call or text when they arrive and meet them at the door bye bye outside. I did this with all my kids it really cut down on the aggravation . We would sit and read waiting for parents on front porch or at stroller after a walk. Right to car

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Oh gracious.
At pick up the 4.5yo had a book he wanted to take home. He asked his Dad and his Dad said he didn't know. I said we cannot take my items home. Let's go put it away on the bookshelf. He told me no. Dad stood by and watched. I turned his shoulders around and walked behind him as he pushed me and told me no the entire way to the bookshelf. I then said, "Are you going to put it back or do I need to?" he kept telling me no so I had to pry it from his fingers and then said it's time to go home. I walked him back to his Dad, who watched this entire thing and said nothing to assist me beyond, "You have a book like that at home!", and was being told NO I don't WANT to to which I said, "We don't tell our teacher no. We say, "Yes ma'am." and upon arriving back at his Dad said, "If you take my things home then I will have nothing here. We would have nothing to do all day. That would be sad." He left fine after that with his Dad.

[Blackcat31]

I just saw the cutest video on face book.Titled this kid should be a lawyer.Linda linda linda then an argument why he should get what he wants. If I knew how to copy and paste I would share it. Anyhow. as to your problem I would call the parents on it.Then I would ask for a call or text when they arrive and meet them at the door bye bye outside. I did this with all my kids it really cut down on the aggravation . We would sit and read waiting for parents on front porch or at stroller after a walk. Right to car

That is such a funny and scary video all at the same time.


Any time my DH and I get to bickering, one of us always says "But Linda, listen. Linda?" ....and then we are bioth cracking up. :: ::

[Mom2Two]

Oh gracious.
At pick up the 4.5yo had a book he wanted to take home. He asked his Dad and his Dad said he didn't know. I said we cannot take my items home. Let's go put it away on the bookshelf. He told me no. Dad stood by and watched. I turned his shoulders around and walked behind him as he pushed me and told me no the entire way to the bookshelf. I then said, "Are you going to put it back or do I need to?" he kept telling me no so I had to pry it from his fingers and then said it's time to go home. I walked him back to his Dad, who watched this entire thing and said nothing to assist me beyond, "You have a book like that at home!", and was being told NO I don't WANT to to which I said, "We don't tell our teacher no. We say, "Yes ma'am." and upon arriving back at his Dad said, "If you take my things home then I will have nothing here. We would have nothing to do all day. That would be sad." He left fine after that with his Dad.

I just wrote a comment then lost it so I hope this doesn't appear twice.

How about doing nothing? Don't engage--don't pick up the ball. See what the dad does as you just watch him deal with his kid taking the book. Just talk to the dad and say either "He's not allowed to take the book" or you could say (if the kid walks out with it) "I'll have to charge you a $40 replacement fee if he leaves the house with the book." Make it the dad's problem. Just tell the dad the rules and let the dad enforce them. If the dad ends up in the hot seat, maybe he'll be more cooperative in working with you about enforcing the rules.

I had something like this happen--just a different version of it. I had a girl who was unusually uncooperative. She had massive melt downs at pick up (and during the day). Mom would say that it was time to leave, but girl wouldn't obey and would scream at mom that she wanted to keep playing. At first, I really exerted myself, trying to make pick up work. But mom wasn't really remedying it. There was no consistent firmness. So then I began just watching and letting mom deal with it. After a while of that, I began talking about what I felt needed to happen to help the situation. Mom was pretty cooperative with what I wanted--afterall, the alternative was to let her deal with it herself. Also, she got to see that my brand of firmness really did work.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

GREAT idea!

[Ariana]

I would make the dad leave and "try again". "ok johnny it looks like you are not able to follow the rules at preschool so your dad is now going to leave and you get to sit here for 5 minutes (place a chair by the door). Instruct dad to come back in 5 minutes. This makes it super inconvenient for both of them. Reiterate the rules, ask johnny if he'd like to try again and then "threaten" - Does daddy need to leave again?", as soon as he starts asking for anything, whining, touching stuff etc. State expectations before dad comes to the door and tell him you know that he can do a good job.

I know this sounds off the wall but I recently had to do this with a child who was acting very disrespectful to me and my daughter during pickup. Nipped it in the bud in 2 days. This is a power struggle between you and the kid and YOU need to step up because he thinks you aren't going to do anything with dad there and he still thinks dad is in charge when dad is there...but he is not and you need to show that.

[AmyKidsCo]

Maybe it's time to have a discussion with the parents about it, letting them know you will no longer tolerate the undermining.

Definitely.

In the 2 examples you gave I'd add something about safety - when the parents are right there. It's hard for parents to argue against you when your reason is keeping children safe.

"I know at home you can open the doors, but here I need to keep ALL the children safe, so only grown-ups are allowed to open the door."

"I know you're big enough to be safe on the stairs but the little ones aren't - they'll try to climb them like you and get hurt. Big kids need to help keep little kids safe."

As far as taking things home, what if you go the opposite direction and let him borrow it overnight? If it doesn't come back the next morning give 1 reminder. If it doesn't come back the next morning hand the parent a bill for replacement. And don't warn them about it ahead of time.

[laundrymom]

I think I'd have sat boy down in a time out and dad as well!!
Jeepers!!

[Blackcat31]

I just wrote a comment then lost it so I hope this doesn't appear twice.

How about doing nothing? Don't engage--don't pick up the ball. See what the dad does as you just watch him deal with his kid taking the book. Just talk to the dad and say either "He's not allowed to take the book" or you could say (if the kid walks out with it) "I'll have to charge you a $40 replacement fee if he leaves the house with the book." Make it the dad's problem. Just tell the dad the rules and let the dad enforce them. If the dad ends up in the hot seat, maybe he'll be more cooperative in working with you about enforcing the rules.

This is a great strategy!!

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Definitely.

In the 2 examples you gave I'd add something about safety - when the parents are right there. It's hard for parents to argue against you when your reason is keeping children safe.

"I know at home you can open the doors, but here I need to keep ALL the children safe, so only grown-ups are allowed to open the door."

"I know you're big enough to be safe on the stairs but the little ones aren't - they'll try to climb them like you and get hurt. Big kids need to help keep little kids safe."

As far as taking things home, what if you go the opposite direction and let him borrow it overnight? If it doesn't come back the next morning give 1 reminder. If it doesn't come back the next morning hand the parent a bill for replacement. And don't warn them about it ahead of time.

I actually said the safety aspect AND that other little children are watching so the rules need to be consistent across the board. Dad still undermined me.

This child is never told no and that is a part of the issue. He cannot accept no. I need him to accept the no and not have a huge meltdown at 4.5.

I would make the dad leave and "try again". "ok johnny it looks like you are not able to follow the rules at preschool so your dad is now going to leave and you get to sit here for 5 minutes (place a chair by the door). Instruct dad to come back in 5 minutes. This makes it super inconvenient for both of them. Reiterate the rules, ask johnny if he'd like to try again and then "threaten" - Does daddy need to leave again?", as soon as he starts asking for anything, whining, touching stuff etc. State expectations before dad comes to the door and tell him you know that he can do a good job.

I know this sounds off the wall but I recently had to do this with a child who was acting very disrespectful to me and my daughter during pickup. Nipped it in the bud in 2 days. This is a power struggle between you and the kid and YOU need to step up because he thinks you aren't going to do anything with dad there and he still thinks dad is in charge when dad is there...but he is not and you need to show that.

I've done something similar a couple of years ago for a little boy. However, this child will not go to timeout. He buckles his legs, refuses to budge, and if you try to guide him he becomes a brick wall. He still goes to time out here but it takes A LOT of physical effort on my part to get him to our time out spot. It's so far away from the door that it'd be impossible to do at pick up. He would simply get up and tell me no he wasn't going to do it...and knowing Dad, he would just say, "Time to go! Bye."

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Side note: What is the POLITE way to say, "We are really struggling with defiance issues when it comes to him doing as I ask/respecting what I say?"

[Blackcat31]

Side note: What is the POLITE way to say, "We are really struggling with defiance issues when it comes to him doing as I ask/respecting what I say?"

Maybe open up a dialog with something like:

"He is definitely going to be a leader someday because he sure thinks he's the one in charge here...."

Or

"He's definitely an inquisitive kid.. He questions everything I say..."

[childcaremom]

Side note: What is the POLITE way to say, "We are really struggling with defiance issues when it comes to him doing as I ask/respecting what I say?"

I would just say what you have written here. It is polite, imho. Anything else just seems to sugarcoat the issue.

I think dad (and mom) need to hear exactly this. And that they are undermining your authority.

I would also do the bye bye outside (drop offs and pick ups) and just eliminate the stress of dealing with the dcps.