How Far Do You Go to Help Families with Home Issues?

[SnowGirl]

DKF has a really hectic home life: two professors, one running his own business on the side, the other doing post doctorate studies. They have a teenage son who doesn't drive but has a lot of after school activities that the parents drive him to/pick him up.

Their little children, in my care, are 2.5 and 6 mo. 2.5 yo especially is struggling from the lack of structure: she regularly goes to bed between 10-midnight and wakes up at 5:00 am on most mornings. 6 mo is starting to get to that age where she is affected by this stuff, and so she's also starting to struggle to sleep. They are happy and sweet in my care, and they nap very well 85% of the time. This issue isn't really something that affects me and my daycare, therefore (luckily, the girls just have a happy disposition that this lack of sleep really doesn't affect their mood).

HOWEVER, lately 2.5 year old has become increasingly dependent on parents all night long. The other night she woke up 5 times, and was doing the typical stuff to avoid sleep: asking for milk, asking to play, crying and screaming. Parents typically give in to that. 2.5 yo has fallen asleep during morning snack twice in the last couple of weeks (since the new semester started for the parents), and once fell asleep on the toilet (thankfully I still sit with her in the bathroom so I caught her before she fell). It's obviously spiraling downhill...

The parents and two little girls sleep in one room, the teenager has the other room (2 bedroom townhome). It's a very difficult situation for everyone.

Yesterday, DCD asked me for advice on sleep training. I'm happy to help them...but I feel like they'd have to make A LOT of adjustments in their approach to 2.5 year old, and possibly move her to a separate sleeping space while she learns to sleep through the night (so she isn't constantly waking up baby sister, as she does now). I don't know if I should simply recommend books and they can take it from there, or if I should sit down and talk to them about how sleep training looks (they really don't know a lot about it).

The spectrum ranges from, like I said, recommending resources, to full on helping them write down their plan and adjust their life. WWYD?

[Blackcat31]

DKF has a really hectic home life: two professors, one running his own business on the side, the other doing post doctorate studies. They have a teenage son who doesn't drive but has a lot of after school activities that the parents drive him to/pick him up.

Their little children, in my care, are 2.5 and 6 mo. 2.5 yo especially is struggling from the lack of structure: she regularly goes to bed between 10-midnight and wakes up at 5:00 am on most mornings. 6 mo is starting to get to that age where she is affected by this stuff, and so she's also starting to struggle to sleep. They are happy and sweet in my care, and they nap very well 85% of the time. This issue isn't really something that affects me and my daycare, therefore (luckily, the girls just have a happy disposition that this lack of sleep really doesn't affect their mood).

HOWEVER, lately 2.5 year old has become increasingly dependent on parents all night long. The other night she woke up 5 times, and was doing the typical stuff to avoid sleep: asking for milk, asking to play, crying and screaming. Parents typically give in to that. 2.5 yo has fallen asleep during morning snack twice in the last couple of weeks (since the new semester started for the parents), and once fell asleep on the toilet (thankfully I still sit with her in the bathroom so I caught her before she fell). It's obviously spiraling downhill...

The parents and two little girls sleep in one room, the teenager has the other room (2 bedroom townhome). It's a very difficult situation for everyone.

Yesterday, DCD asked me for advice on sleep training. I'm happy to help them...but I feel like they'd have to make A LOT of adjustments in their approach to 2.5 year old, and possibly move her to a separate sleeping space while she learns to sleep through the night (so she isn't constantly waking up baby sister, as she does now). I don't know if I should simply recommend books and they can take it from there, or if I should sit down and talk to them about how sleep training looks (they really don't know a lot about it).

The spectrum ranges from, like I said, recommending resources, to full on helping them write down their plan and adjust their life. WWYD?

I recommend resources and books but that is all. I have enough going on when the kids are here that I do NOT want to have to weigh in or discuss the hours a child is at home too. Sorry NOT my watch, NOT my problem.

Also most parents ask for advice but rarely follow it and then the provider is all the while growing more frustrated because like the DCK's you told them what to do but they arent actually doing it...kwim?

So, I would suggest resources for where they can find tips, tricks and helpful ideas to assist them in figuring it out but thats as far as I would go.

[Thriftylady]

I would also recommend resources and books. Honestly, it doesn't sound like their lives are conducive to young children. What I would want to tell them, would be they need to change their lifestyles to suit the needs of their children and perhaps get a bigger place to live (as college professors they should be able to afford it). They wouldn't want to hear that though.

[Annalee]

I recommend resources and books but that is all. I have enough going on when the kids are here that I do NOT want to have to weigh in or discuss the hours a child is at home too. Sorry NOT my watch, NOT my problem.

Also most parents ask for advice but rarely follow it and then the provider is all the while growing more frustrated because like the DCK's you told them what to do but they arent actually doing it...kwim?

So, I would suggest resources for where they can find tips, tricks and helpful ideas to assist them in figuring it out but thats as far as I would go.

[Cat Herder]

I would offer to put little one's down for a nap immediately after drop-off to help with the falling asleep during morning snack and potty time.

Being educators far beyond my pay grade, they would understand typical child development exponentially beyond my grasp.

I would recognize their requests as temporary guilt discussions and let them know that this stage won't last forever. Their hard work is an amazing accomplishment and everything will look much brighter upon summer. That I had their back. lovethis

** Not that I just went through this with a client last month or anything... :::::: Spoiler alert: The entire drama-mentary self resolved upon the parents graduation and subsequent landing of "the dream job".

[Unregistered]

I love what cat herder said. And I add in response to pp that I would never recommend they get a bigger place. That is pretty presumptuous.

[Ariana]

Tell them to go to this website www.babysleepsite.com and get a personalized plan for their family. This is what I did with both of my kids. I recommend it to everyone who wants my sleep advice. There are lots of free resources on there as well but their plans are amazing and they work within a week depending on the issue. With my first we had zero clue how to sleep train and with my second we needed help with her dependence on the carrier (since I wore her 24/7 while running a daycare!).

I also recommend the book The Sleep Easy Solution.

Then they are on their own. Parents rarely follow through on advice and are just too lazy or too tired or whatever to keep sleep training up for the time it requires. This is why it will only frustrate you to put forth the effort to try and help them. Let the above professionals help them, they might listen if there is $$ involved. Parents like these are focused on one thing: themselves

[kendallina]

Many of my parents are professors as well and I've found them to be very open to discussing these things and making some changes when they ask for help. Sometimes they really just have no idea what kids need. I'd probably print off a chart about how much sleep their kids should be getting. And talk about how sleep begets sleep. They may be less likely to wake at night if they're well rested. And, yeh, they need to stop responding to their older ones requests, but not sure I'd mention that or not, depending on where the conversation led.

Educated parents like professors will want their children to do well in school and once these kids get to school they're going to struggle if they can't even stay awake. I would lead with that.

Then I would suggest some resources. Probably don't suggest that the kids sleep in another room, sounds like they don't have the space and if these parents are at the beginning of their professional career, they don't make much money and likely have lots of debt. My DH is an academic, I know.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

It sounds like the kid is waking up at night so they can get attention from the parents that they may not be getting during the day. They need to spend time with their kids. Active time in the evening where they can focus on their kids and wear them out. Then they need a strong routine, every night, before going to bed. Waking up at 5 am is so early for anyone, so they need to be in bed by 8 or 9 at the latest. Of course, you can tell them as much advice as you want, but they actually have to follow through with it to work and in most cases, they don't.

[kendallina]

So are the kids not getting to bed until 10pm or midnight because the parents don't get home until then? Or does a parent pick them up from you at a reasonable time?

[Thriftylady]

I love what cat herder said. And I add in response to pp that I would never recommend they get a bigger place. That is pretty presumptuous.

I said I wouldn't tell them to, but think it. OP said they the kids are using the two bedrooms, where are the parents sleeping in a two bedroom place? It sounds like from the post things may be chaotic at night at home, if they are I can't imagine anyone sleeping well.

[laundrymom]

I would suggest a bigger place or mom and dad in the living room. W baby and two bigger kids getting bedrooms. And using the word NO. It's ok to tell a child no. Even if the only reason they are waking up is because they miss mom and dad. Maybe they could rearrange their schedule for one parent to have a schedule more conducive to getting them on a schedule?

[SnowGirl]

All their personal circumstances notwithstanding...I think I feel good just giving them resources and letting them take it from there .

Ariana, those are my two sources as well! I used both when teaching my own daughter (once a terrible sleeper, now amazing!) how to sleep! I will recommend those.

I am completely supportive of this family, and feel for them terribly. Despite their impressive education, they are not well off at all. They were hit hard by the recession and teaching at their Alma Mater is a brand new gig and a way for them to make ends meet while they try to get their careers back. They are both scientists, not at all educated in childhood development, but rather geo-physics and cancer research . Their professorships are actually part-time.

Anyway - they are a wonderful family. The parents obviously care very much for their babies. They have been with me since August and never once had an early drop off or late pick up. The baby has been sick once and the parents kept her home for three days (never tried dropping her off). They aren't dumpers, or anything.

2.5 yo is going to bed so late due to fighting sleep. They try to put her down at 7 and she fights it for hours.

Very unfortunately (and I didn't share about yesterday because I really thought it was a one time thing), but 2.5 year old is on day 2 of refusing nap and screaming so loudly that no one else can sleep, no matter what I do.

I texted mom and dad and asked if one of them can come get her. I haven't heard back and that was 5 minutes ago. I might need to send her home, with emergency contacts or not. She's belligerent and no one can sleep.

[SnowGirl]

They're on their way now. Since this is the only DCF here today, I might sit down with them when they get here and talk a little about how I'm on their team, and really want to work with them to get this girl (and this family) the sleep they need. I spoke with DCM on the phone just now and she *sounds* very serious about how they need to step up and figure this out.

I won't feel like I'm wasting my time, because this *is* my business hours still

[SnowGirl]

I would also recommend resources and books. Honestly, it doesn't sound like their lives are conducive to young children. What I would want to tell them, would be they need to change their lifestyles to suit the needs of their children and perhaps get a bigger place to live (as college professors they should be able to afford it). They wouldn't want to hear that though.

Even though they can't afford a new place (I know this personal fact about them...), they *do* have an unfinished basement that they planned on making into the living space for their son before they got laid off (both in one year got laid off - super hard on them).

I was thinking that if I were a teenager, I totally wouldn't mind an area rug, room dividers, and tapestries in an unfinished basement and calling that my room. Way preferable to living across the hall from my parents and baby sisters

Don't know if it'd be too high-handed of me to suggest it to them, though. I think it's not my business at all.