Illegal Daycare Operating as Legal

[Concerned in MI]

I was searching the web for look day care web sites and I came across one that had some iffy information on it. I searched state site and this day care is not licensed. In Michigan, day cares are not allowed to use any kind of trampoline. This owner has trampoline permission slips on her site. I messaged her about openings and asked about her license, she told me that she was full. I messaged again, this time not asking about her license and she has openings.

On top of the trampoline, she has comments about safe sleep for infants, that concern me and the amount of tv/screen time she allows per day.

She also is wording her web site as if she is legal (including saying she is legal) with out saying she is "licensed". Order to be legal she would have to have a license. So she misleading families into believe that she is licensed.

Mainly I would not care to get involved but the trampoline and her wording in her safe sleep and legal comments make me CONCERNED. What can I do?

[midaycare]

I was searching the web for look day care web sites and I came across one that had some iffy information on it. I searched state site and this day care is not licensed. In Michigan, day cares are not allowed to use any kind of trampoline. This owner has trampoline permission slips on her site. I messaged her about openings and asked about her license, she told me that she was full. I messaged again, this time not asking about her license and she has openings.

On top of the trampoline, she has comments about safe sleep for infants, that concern me and the amount of tv/screen time she allows per day.

She also is wording her web site as if she is legal (including saying she is legal) with out saying she is "licensed". Order to be legal she would have to have a license. So she misleading families into believe that she is licensed.


Mainly I would not care to get involved but the trampoline and her wording in her safe sleep and legal comments make me CONCERNED. What can I do?

Report it to the SOM. I don't know that I would expect anything to be done, though. Unlicensed care is everywhere in MI. Have you ever read Craigslist? Yikes...

[Thriftylady]

You can report, but it may or may not do any good. And at the end of the day it won't anyway, because as long as people can choose a person for their kids they will. Perhaps because the rate is low, maybe she is a great provider, or whatever other reasons. Here in Ohio, we don't have to have a license and I see people offering care I would never use. But people use them. I saw on a Facebook group where a 14 year old girl was pregnant and looking to do daycare to make money this summer. People were jumping all over it to "help her make some money". Those same people probably won't be willing to pay the rate of a "real" quality provider.

[Concerned in MI]

Report it to the SOM. I don't know that I would expect anything to be done, though. Unlicensed care is everywhere in MI. Have you ever read Craigslist? Yikes...

Ok I reported it. I found her address and phone number, which you need to report or they will not do anything.

I messaged her back with some questions including how many does she have in care. Her responds is
2 under 1 year
2 - 1 year old (one hers)
2 - 2 year old
1 - 3 year old (hers)

7 kids, 2 hers and 4 are 1 and under.
She is out of ratio too.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-71551_27716-82239--,00.html

i found her on CL, then went to her website. She was the only one in my area.

[Alwaysgreener]

You can report, but it may or may not do any good. And at the end of the day it won't anyway, because as long as people can choose a person for their kids they will. Perhaps because the rate is low, maybe she is a great provider, or whatever other reasons. Here in Ohio, we don't have to have a license and I see people offering care I would never use. But people use them. I saw on a Facebook group where a 14 year old girl was pregnant and looking to do daycare to make money this summer. People were jumping all over it to "help her make some money". Those same people probably won't be willing to pay the rate of a "real" quality provider.

I meet a local DCP, we were talking about this and she admitted that she reported a woman that was advertising on FB for running an illegal. The woman got caught and fined. She later posted on FB that she had to close because she was reported and now she was looking to nanny.
I also see pregnant teens looking to babysit. On one hand the do need the practice but on the other hand, I am not sure that I would trust them.

[Alwaysgreener]

Report it to the SOM. I don't know that I would expect anything to be done, though. Unlicensed care is everywhere in MI. Have you ever read Craigslist? Yikes...

Funny story. I have some searches saved on CL. Today, I received an email search that one of my search words were triggered. It was a woman with 4 kids that wanted to do day care in her home. I simple wrote back to her and said that it was against the law. She thanked me and removed her post.

[Alwaysgreener]

Ok I reported it. I found her address and phone number, which you need to report or they will not do anything.

I messaged her back with some questions including how many does she have in care. Her responds is
2 under 1 year
2 - 1 year old (one hers)
2 - 2 year old
1 - 3 year old (hers)

7 kids, 2 hers and 4 are 1 and under.
She is out of ratio too.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-71551_27716-82239--,00.html

i found her on CL, then went to her website. She was the only one in my area.

[Blackcat31]

Ok I reported it. I found her address and phone number, which you need to report or they will not do anything.

I messaged her back with some questions including how many does she have in care. Her responds is
2 under 1 year
2 - 1 year old (one hers)
2 - 2 year old
1 - 3 year old (hers)

7 kids, 2 hers and 4 are 1 and under.
She is out of ratio too.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-71551_27716-82239--,00.html

i found her on CL, then went to her website. She was the only one in my area.

Just because she has the kids listed above enrolled doesn't mean she has them all on the same days or at the same times.

Also rules for MI say "(1:6) includes family members under 7 years old; no more than 4 children under 30 months and no more than 2 of those children can be under 18 months"

Her 1 yr old could be also be 19+ months

Who knows but I am curious as to why you are concerned about this particular provider? Or are you reporting all the illegal providers on Craig's List from your area?

Are you a provider as well?

[Thriftylady]

Just because she has the kids listed above enrolled doesn't mean she has them all on the same days or at the same times.

Also rules for MI say "(1:6) includes family members under 7 years old; no more than 4 children under 30 months and no more than 2 of those children can be under 18 months"

Her 1 yr old could be also be 19+ months

Who knows but I am curious as to why you are concerned about this particular provider? Or are you reporting all the illegal providers on Craig's List from your area?

Are you a provider as well?

I was wondering the same thing. I know there are providers here that are out of ratio and not following the rules. But I honestly would make myself crazy if I wanted to go hunt them down and report them. I can't worry about saving the world, all I can do is focus on the little part of it that touches me and make sure I do my job to the best of my ability.

[midaycare]

Just because she has the kids listed above enrolled doesn't mean she has them all on the same days or at the same times.

Also rules for MI say "(1:6) includes family members under 7 years old; no more than 4 children under 30 months and no more than 2 of those children can be under 18 months"

Her 1 yr old could be also be 19+ months

Who knows but I am curious as to why you are concerned about this particular provider? Or are you reporting all the illegal providers on Craig's List from your area?

Are you a provider as well?

Her ratios could be okay. You really can't tell from the above info.

I have:
(2) 1 year olds
(6) 2 year olds
(2) 3 year olds
Just from that info I might sound out of ratio, until you understand the exact ages and my mix of full and part time.

[Concerned in MI]

Just because she has the kids listed above enrolled doesn't mean she has them all on the same days or at the same times.

Also rules for MI say "(1:6) includes family members under 7 years old; no more than 4 children under 30 months and no more than 2 of those children can be under 18 months"

Her 1 yr old could be also be 19+ months

Who knows but I am curious as to why you are concerned about this particular provider? Or are you reporting all the illegal providers on Craig's List from your area?

Are you a provider as well?

I came across her ad, which lead me to her website. I was not out to report her, I started feeling uncomfortable about the info on her site. I did some research on her before I even posted here.

Poster here suggested I report to the SOM, which is what I did.

When she told me how many kids she had, she told me that all the families are 4 to 5 days a week. No I do not know the months of the children, but 7 kids is over ratio. She even said, I am allowed to have 6 kids in my childcare, then list the ages of the kids. (but not how I listed them, hers was in story form telling about the kids) In another paragraph mention that she had her 2 kids in her home and there ages. This is in an email, that she is telling me that she still has a spot for my child, that I need care for. (which would make 8 kids)

If she was licensed or "legal" as she put it, then she should know her ratios.

She told me she was full when I asked for her license number but told me she had openings when I tried again. To me that says she knows she not "legal".

I am a foster parent, so the safety of kids is important to me.

[Concerned in MI]

The only research I did was on her website (her full name and address plus contact info is listed) and a few emails to her asking the few questions. I was in no way out to save the world, I was just browsing on CL to begin with.

There was more on her website that seemed off to me, then what I listed here. I was just going on a gut feeling, when I emailed her. I would feel awful if I did not trust my gut and something happened to one of those kids.
(It was one of those, something is not right here feelings)

If I am wrong, then the worst that is going to happen is she gets a surprise inspection or call, if any thing.

[Blackcat31]

I came across her ad, which lead me to her website. I was not out to report her, I started feeling uncomfortable about the info on her site. I did some research on her before I even posted here.

Poster here suggested I report to the SOM, which is what I did.

When she told me how many kids she had, she told me that all the families are 4 to 5 days a week. No I do not know the months of the children, but 7 kids is over ratio. She even said, I am allowed to have 6 kids in my childcare, then list the ages of the kids. (but not how I listed them, hers was in story form telling about the kids) In another paragraph mention that she had her 2 kids in her home and there ages. This is in an email, that she is telling me that she still has a spot for my child, that I need care for. (which would make 8 kids)

If she was licensed or "legal" as she put it, then she should know her ratios.

She told me she was full when I asked for her license number but told me she had openings when I tried again. To me that says she knows she not "legal".

I am a foster parent, so the safety of kids is important to me.

Maybe she really doesn't know her ratios arent state compliant or that she needs to be licensed....
(We are know how clear the rules are written. )

It just seems weird to me that she would go to such great lengths to give you such detailed information KNOWING she is operating illegally (if she is).

As a foster parent, you know better than most how often the system can be over worked and under staffed and that the true "best interests of the children" is often lost in government regulations and nonsensical rules that don't at all protect the child as an individual.

If you are truly concerned for the well-being of the children in her care, call her up and offer her the help/support she may need to educate herself about the rules and how to become licensed. IMHO, its worth a shot.

If she's knowingly breaking the rules and doesn't care, you have all the proof you need in her/your e-mail exchanges to file a formal complaint.

As a licensed foster parent, you are a mandated reporter and obligated to report.

[melilley]

I am also in MI and there are a ton of illegal providers in my area, it drives me nuts just because I have to go through all this cap and money to even get licensed and these other people don't. But I also honestly believe that a lot of people don't know that they have to be licensed. I sometimes will send these providers a link to our states website that states that it is illegal to operate without a license. Some have said they honestly didn't know and others just don't care. Either way, I think you did the right thing by turning her in. It definitely sounds like she's over ratio and a definite red flag if you asked for her license and all of a sudden she didn't have any openings. I don't have the time, but in my area there is actually a group of providers who will watch for illegal providers and turn them in.

[Carrieh]

This may be me...and if it is, I apologize...

I have gone through the entire process to become a licensed childcare provider. I thought once my orientation was done (after of course giving all my paperwork and filling out my application) that I had the green light from the licensing bureau. I'm not sure if I do, but I don't have an actual number. I apologize, because the whole process is a little confusing. Regardless, I called the licensing bureau and they told me that I'll have my number after they come and do the physical in-home review. Oops! I was mistaken. So, I stopped taking kids and the kids I did have are temporarily at either another person's home, or I gave them the name of an individual who is not licensed and running a childcare out of her home with quite a bit more kids. (I'm sure that's a ton better). Now, I don't have a trampoline, so I'm not sure if this post is actually referring to me, but I do have a jump-o-lene and a toddler trampoline. Both are approved by the state since neither have springs and both are indoor. The kid portion matches to mine. According to the State of Michigan, you are allowed 6 kids, total, outside of your own or "related" kids. As for my tv time...I did allow tv time up to 9:00 am; depending on arrival of kids. My start of business was at 6:00 am, but if I didn't have kids arrive until 8:00 am, then the two hour tv/screen time would be allowed.

I have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars into my childcare. I am paying $160 per month for a school-ready curriculum along with many, many, many hours and money into all the research to make sure I was doing everything on-key and correct according to the state, along with several calls to the state. I have worked in the legal field for over 10 years prior to becoming a stay-at-home mom and chose to open a childcare because of the awful places out there that provide childcare without being licensed or providing a safe place for kids. It with out a doubt was my fault, if in fact I am not allowed to watch kids quite yet, but at the same time, I'm questioning how much people really care about the KIDS well-being. If my kids are in a obvious safe place with a loving provider and clear and obvious indications of interaction, why punish them?...especially if they are clearly in the workings of becoming a licensed provider? I could be just internalizing all of this since after calling I found out that I wasn't "quite there" with my actual licensing number, but unless there is obvious evidence that there is harm being done to a child or lack of attention and interaction, why is there such a need of attack on another person.?. Either way, if this was me, because I am in Michigan, I apologize...and I also apologize on behalf of all those out there that are working as hard as I am to become licensed and provide an awesome in-home facility where children can grow and develop through great interaction, while in error watch kids prior to becoming official.