What's An Appropriate Accommodation For Personal Space?

[mamamanda]

I have a dcg age 3 who I've posted about several times. I was going to term, but decided to try some of the tips I got on here since mom was willing to help. She's got the aggression under control now not being physically mean any more, but she still screams a high-pitched "Nooooo!" at both the children and myself regularly. I find that if she is left to play by herself she will play well for up to an hour, but the second another child gets near here she freaks out yelling that she needs her space. Her mom asks that I accommodate her need for space which I have no problem with in general. I have a "calm down spot" for the kids which they are free to use at will with a few books and a glitter water bottle. But dcg wants to be alone for the entire day. She chooses a toy and wants to keep all the pieces to herself for the entire play time. If another child gets too close she starts screaming. She doesn't want to use the calm down spot b/c she wants the other toys, but she doesn't want anyone getting anywhere near here. The other kids want to play with the toy she's playing with which I would typically say she could keep it until she's done with it but if she knows someone else wants it she will continue to play with it until clean up time. Yesterday she played with it for 40 minutes after another child asked if they could have a turn. This is a jungle set with many animals and I feel several of them could play with the set nicely, but she won't let another child touch them even though most of the animals are left in the box beside her the entire time.
So after 40 minutes I set a timer for 10 minutes and said when it went off she had to pass the toy to a friend. Of course when the timer dinged it was absolute hysterics, screaming that she had it first and "I don't like to share!" between sobs. The boy who got the toy invited her to play with him since she liked the toy so much so she went right back to playing with it after her fit but then within a few minutes she was dominating and telling the other kids they couldn't touch it again. I sent her to the nap room where she screamed, kicked, and carried on for a bit and then played quietly by herself for another 20 minutes until we moved into the room. (Our nap room doubles as a playroom.) Then she started the hysterics again that kids were too close to her, touching her toys, she needs her space, etc.
I understand occasionally needing space, but this is constant throughout the day and this is group care. I can't keep kids from getting close to her in a small play room. And I can't allow her to sit in a room by herself all day either. I almost feel like she needs a nanny. How accommodating should I be for mom? Am I being unreasonable to expect her to play WITH the other kids or at least in close proximity to them? I don't know what to do for her.

[hope]

Could you give her a big towel or blanket to sit on with her toys? Make a rule that no one goes on her blanket. As time goes on make the blanket smaller therefore making her personal space smaller.

[Miss A]

When a child needs personal space in my care, I try to lay our a blanket or a hula hoop and inform the child that this is their spot, where they can play and know that they will be left alone. This also doubles as a helper when I an trying to train a child to play independently from others. It has worked here,aybe it will work for you?

[Kimskiddos]

I agree with using a towel or hoop for childs personal space. For the toy hoarding, maybe put a time limit on how long she can play with a toy (15 minutes?) Particularly the toys that are more "group" toys.

[Heidi]

I like the towel/hoola hoop idea...sort of Montessori (they use rugs).

Maybe you could break down some of the favorite's into smaller sets? Like, sort the animals by farm/wild/jungle, for example, and put in smaller baskets. Then, she can have her fill (and so can the others) of a set without compromising the other's chance to use them.

I don't like the timer idea only because 15 minutes really cuts into the richness and depth of her play. Maybe she's not particularly social, but her concentration level and high-strung nature could mean she's intellectually gifted, too. I would be hesistant to stifle that. You certainly want to encourage social learning, but being independent is a strength, too, kwim?

In a true Montessori, each child rolls out a rug, puts their work on it, and uses it to their hearts content, and then puts it away. If another child wants to work together, they ask "may I work with you?" the child can answer yes or no (so, 2 can work together). If she says no, then the other child says "may I watch you?" again, it's a choice and respectful. Third question, "ok, then please let me know when you are done". Child returns work to shelf, then lets other child know that it's available.

Of course, they're all trained that way from the day they enter the Children's house, and it's generally a very peaceful environment (the teacher generally speaks in low tones). Maybe you can adapt some of that for your program?

[daycarediva]

I like the towel/hoola hoop idea...sort of Montessori (they use rugs).

Maybe you could break down some of the favorite's into smaller sets? Like, sort the animals by farm/wild/jungle, for example, and put in smaller baskets. Then, she can have her fill (and so can the others) of a set without compromising the other's chance to use them.

I don't like the timer idea only because 15 minutes really cuts into the richness and depth of her play. Maybe she's not particularly social, but her concentration level and high-strung nature could mean she's intellectually gifted, too. I would be hesistant to stifle that. You certainly want to encourage social learning, but being independent is a strength, too, kwim?

In a true Montessori, each child rolls out a rug, puts their work on it, and uses it to their hearts content, and then puts it away. If another child wants to work together, they ask "may I work with you?" the child can answer yes or no (so, 2 can work together). If she says no, then the other child says "may I watch you?" again, it's a choice and respectful. Third question, "ok, then please let me know when you are done". Child returns work to shelf, then lets other child know that it's available.

Of course, they're all trained that way from the day they enter the Children's house, and it's generally a very peaceful environment (the teacher generally speaks in low tones). Maybe you can adapt some of that for your program?

This is how I work sharing as well. It isn't genuine sharing at this age. It's learning to take turns.

When a child asks for something, the person with the toy may say yes/no, if they say no, there isn't a rush to finish up. They're allowed to play with it until THEY are ready to give it up. I redirect the other child to chose another toy while they are waiting, and applaud patience as well.

I would use colored duct tape and give her her own space in the room. It's hers. Nobody enters it, everything in it is her property until she is finished. I wouldn't rush her or push socializing on her either. *eta* I would use duct tape in lieu of rugs/hula hoops/carpet squares because those are moveable and that may be confusing and upsetting to her. I did the same with my own DS at that age and a drop in dcb (moderate functioning autism). He now comes in, picks out his toys, and brings them to his space without a word. The other kids get it, and play around his area, even when he isn't here.

She sounds like she may be on the spectrum, maybe aspergers level/gifted.

[auntymimi]

I understand the need for personal space (I 'm like this myself) but I would not allow one child to take over a "center" meant for sharing just because she doesn't like to share, kwim? I have toys meant for sharing and meant for playing alone. She would be welcome to her blanket or hula hoop or whatever but she needs to choose an activity that is meant for one and I would allow her to keep it as long as she likes. I have my toys set up as group or independent play, so I wouldn't let her take out the giant tote of little people or take over the kitchen center for example unless she planned to play with others. If she needs to be by herself with toys she may choose the toys meant for 1 (1 tube of animals, a puzzle, 1 busy bag, 1 baby doll and a few accessories, ect.). That being said I have no experience with special needs kids, just kids that need special!

[mamamanda]

I really like the idea of incorporating Montessori into my program. I've read a lot about it and sometimes use some of their activities, but I find it so hard to do for a couple reasons. 1) I have such varied ages. In January I'll have 3 under the age of 2. 2)3 of my kids have a very hard time playing independently on any level. I do use blankets to sit on with a single activity a few times a week to work on this, but the ones that struggle truly hate it and complain a lot. Or they switch activities every 2 minutes never actually experiencing any of them. Maybe I need to visit a Montessori school and see it in action.

[Heidi]

I understand the need for personal space (I 'm like this myself) but I would not allow one child to take over a "center" meant for sharing just because she doesn't like to share, kwim? I have toys meant for sharing and meant for playing alone. She would be welcome to her blanket or hula hoop or whatever but she needs to choose an activity that is meant for one and I would allow her to keep it as long as she likes. I have my toys set up as group or independent play, so I wouldn't let her take out the giant tote of little people or take over the kitchen center for example unless she planned to play with others. If she needs to be by herself with toys she may choose the toys meant for 1 (1 tube of animals, a puzzle, 1 busy bag, 1 baby doll and a few accessories, ect.). That being said I have no experience with special needs kids, just kids that need special!

Maybe she could give her a tray, and whatever fits in the tray, she can take. If it doesn't, it's either too big (like the kitchen) or too many.

It would take a few days of walking her through it (literally), and then she'd probably catch on. To be fair, I'd put out a few trays and rugs or other barriers. We would want other children to have the opportunity as well (note, I chose the word opportunity, as it should be a positive thing), not single her out.

[auntymimi]

Maybe she could give her a tray, and whatever fits in the tray, she can take. If it doesn't, it's either too big (like the kitchen) or too many.

It would take a few days of walking her through it (literally), and then she'd probably catch on. To be fair, I'd put out a few trays and rugs or other barriers. We would want other children to have the opportunity as well (note, I chose the word opportunity, as it should be a positive thing), not single her out.

Absolutely! I kind of do this for the toddlers when my kinda dd does her homework (yes they give worksheets to 5yo kindergarteners every night for homework in my area...uuuhhhgggg, vent vent) that are literally on trays. mostly mini sensory projects, sorting, pouring, fine motor stuff and we switch every so often. You could totally do that! maybe a mini kitchen center, 4 Dino's and some accessories, or whatever. I just kind of got the feeling from the original post that maybe dcg just would rather hoard toys by herself than put in the hard work to learn to socialize with her peers. I wouldn't mind a child playing alone contentedly but by 3 yo you don't get to be rude to your friends (screaming no and the like) at my house. But then again, this is my take on everyday normally functioning kids, not special needs. I had a 4 yo dcg like this. She's awesome now, but she used to try to hoard toys, never wanted to play with others, unless they were much younger and she could be the boss. She would sit at my feet with an armload of toys and never play with them, wanting to talk to me all day, or "show" her baby brother her toys and scream when he would try to touch them. Or try to take over a center for 2 or more. No, you don't get the entire sandbox to yourself!

[Heidi]

Absolutely! I kind of do this for the toddlers when my kinda dd does her homework (yes they give worksheets to 5yo kindergarteners every night for homework in my area...uuuhhhgggg, vent vent) that are literally on trays. mostly mini sensory projects, sorting, pouring, fine motor stuff and we switch every so often. You could totally do that! maybe a mini kitchen center, 4 Dino's and some accessories, or whatever. I just kind of got the feeling from the original post that maybe dcg just would rather hoard toys by herself than put in the hard work to learn to socialize with her peers. I wouldn't mind a child playing alone contentedly but by 3 yo you don't get to be rude to your friends (screaming no and the like) at my house. But then again, this is my take on everyday normally functioning kids, not special needs. I had a 4 yo dcg like this. She's awesome now, but she used to try to hoard toys, never wanted to play with others, unless they were much younger and she could be the boss. She would sit at my feet with an armload of toys and never play with them, wanting to talk to me all day, or "show" her baby brother her toys and scream when he would try to touch them. Or try to take over a center for 2 or more. No, you don't get the entire sandbox to yourself!

Yes...my favorite little darling has those moments. Not so much the hoarding, but would much rather literally hang on the nearest adult than play.

My introducing the "work" time in short spurts has helped her enormously. Now, I just say "B, go find some work to do", and she does 95% of the time. When I used to say "B, go play", she'd just go flip around, roll around, or whine. She'll be 3 in December, btw.

We have a work period from arrival (7:15-8:15 they trickle in) until 8:30 or so. I have puzzles, trays of small blocks or toys, sensory items on trays, small baskets with Mr. Potato Heads, Bristle Blocks, Magna Tiles, Sensory Blocks, plus more trays or baskets with paper and pencils, paper and crayons, a tub of Playdough and tools, stamps and paper, etc. They pick a work, do it, get bored, put it back, pick something else. All the 2+ year olds LOVE this time. The 1's come towards 8:15, so their work time is short (worked out that way), and we (the other kids and I) just give them "work" since they have clip-on chairs (no free range in that room!).

At 8:30 ish, they all go wash hands, then look at books while I finish up breakfast and someone sets the table. Then, we go outside until lunch.

We only use our typical playroom after nap (we will more in the winter, I'm sure). That's a free-for-all. Everyone plays, everyone cleans. Although, if one of the older children asked "can I go work?" I'd probably say yes. The rooms are adjacent, so I can supervise both easily. It doesn't happen much, because they do start to leave right after nap and snack.

[auntymimi]

Yes...my favorite little darling has those moments. Not so much the hoarding, but would much rather literally hang on the nearest adult than play.

My introducing the "work" time in short spurts has helped her enormously. Now, I just say "B, go find some work to do", and she does 95% of the time. When I used to say "B, go play", she'd just go flip around, roll around, or whine. She'll be 3 in December, btw.

We have a work period from arrival (7:15-8:15 they trickle in) until 8:30 or so. I have puzzles, trays of small blocks or toys, sensory items on trays, small baskets with Mr. Potato Heads, Bristle Blocks, Magna Tiles, Sensory Blocks, plus more trays or baskets with paper and pencils, paper and crayons, a tub of Playdough and tools, stamps and paper, etc. They pick a work, do it, get bored, put it back, pick something else. All the 2+ year olds LOVE this time. The 1's come towards 8:15, so their work time is short (worked out that way), and we (the other kids and I) just give them "work" since they have clip-on chairs (no free range in that room!).

At 8:30 ish, they all go wash hands, then look at books while I finish up breakfast and someone sets the table. Then, we go outside until lunch.

We only use our typical playroom after nap (we will more in the winter, I'm sure). That's a free-for-all. Everyone plays, everyone cleans. Although, if one of the older children asked "can I go work?" I'd probably say yes. The rooms are adjacent, so I can supervise both easily. It doesn't happen much, because they do start to leave right after nap and snack.

That's almost just like my schedule only reversed. Most of my kids are 2nd shifters and my couple am kids are very part time sa (every other weekend) and occasionally a couple of easy going toddlers. They all love their "homework", as we call it, too!

[Blackcat31]

I have a dcg age 3 who I've posted about several times. I was going to term, but decided to try some of the tips I got on here since mom was willing to help. She's got the aggression under control now not being physically mean any more, but she still screams a high-pitched "Nooooo!" at both the children and myself regularly. I find that if she is left to play by herself she will play well for up to an hour, but the second another child gets near here she freaks out yelling that she needs her space. Her mom asks that I accommodate her need for space which I have no problem with in general.

Define what "accommodate her need for space" means according to the mom.

I have a "calm down spot" for the kids which they are free to use at will with a few books and a glitter water bottle. But dcg wants to be alone for the entire day.

If she wants to sit in the calm down space alone all day, that is her choice. I would direct her to the calm down spot ANY time she indicates needing to be alone.


She chooses a toy and wants to keep all the pieces to herself for the entire play time. If another child gets too close she starts screaming.

This is not something I would allow a child with these behaviors to do. If she wants to play or be alone, she can. But it would be in the space I designate for her and with the toys/activities of MY choice. She should not have the power nor has she proven to you that she is old enough or developmentally ready to make that choice.

She doesn't want to use the calm down spot b/c she wants the other toys, but she doesn't want anyone getting anywhere near here. The other kids want to play with the toy she's playing with which I would typically say she could keep it until she's done with it but if she knows someone else wants it she will continue to play with it until clean up time.

That type of behavior really has nothing to do with the toy at all. It has to do with power and being in control and/or in charge.

I would have require her to stop playing with the toy after a set amount of time. When the time expires, rather than having her just stop playing, I would require her to give it to another child OR to play WITH the other child.
If she balks, then the other child gets the toy ALONE and she gets redirected to the cam down area.

Yesterday she played with it for 40 minutes after another child asked if they could have a turn. This is a jungle set with many animals and I feel several of them could play with the set nicely, but she won't let another child touch them even though most of the animals are left in the box beside her the entire time.

So after 40 minutes I set a timer for 10 minutes and said when it went off she had to pass the toy to a friend. Of course when the timer dinged it was absolute hysterics, screaming that she had it first and "I don't like to share!" between sobs.

There is a lot of things in life she probably doesn't like. But that does not matter. I also understand not wanting to share but again, similar to liking something and not wanting to do something....it does NOT matter...
She does NOT get to make those decisions. She has every right to express her dislike but NO WAY would I be changing up your routine, rules or physical environment to appease what sounds like a spoiled child.

The boy who got the toy invited her to play with him since she liked the toy so much so she went right back to playing with it after her fit but then within a few minutes she was dominating and telling the other kids they couldn't touch it again. I sent her to the nap room where she screamed, kicked, and carried on for a bit and then played quietly by herself for another 20 minutes until we moved into the room. (Our nap room doubles as a playroom.) Then she started the hysterics again that kids were too close to her, touching her toys, she needs her space, etc.
I understand occasionally needing space, but this is constant throughout the day and this is group care. I can't keep kids from getting close to her in a small play room. And I can't allow her to sit in a room by herself all day either. I almost feel like she needs a nanny. How accommodating should I be for mom? Am I being unreasonable to expect her to play WITH the other kids or at least in close proximity to them? I don't know what to do for her.

I would allow that ^^^ to happen NO MORE than 2 times in one day.

The 3rd time it happened, mom would be getting a call to pick up.

You are jumping through hoops and running in circles trying to placate a 3 year old child who believes she runs the show.


I answered in bold above as well.



FWIW~ I think dcg needs either some really tough love or a nanny.

[Tasha]

I would allow that ^^^ to happen NO MORE than 2 times in one day.

The 3rd time it happened, mom would be getting a call to pick up.

You are jumping through hoops and running in circles trying to placate a 3 year old child who believes she runs the show.


I answered in bold above as well.



FWIW~ I think dcg needs either some really tough love or a nanny.

I agree with this X10000.

[Hunni Bee]

I agree with this X10000.

I was going to say something very similar but but everybody was giving such gentle suggestions...