Precautions When Unvaccinated Child Is Enrolled

[Willow]

This irritates me to no end. You need to do what you need to do to protect your kids. Why do you want to deny ME the right to do the same? You want the right to not vaccinate your child because you feel it is harmful, but want me to vaccinate mine, despite the fact that I feel it is harmful, to keep yours safe????

No idea what you're talking about there. Seriously. No. Idea.

I don't care what you do with you or yours. I never said anything about denying YOU anything so why don't you just hop right off that martyr train.


What I actually said, and absolutely do think is sad, is that immune-suppressed/compromised children can't depend on herd immunity anymore. It's a very scary world for parents of those children and it's being conjured by choice.

Just because I don't agree with your choices AT ALL, doesn't mean I don't support your right to make them.

[Controlled Chaos]

I got you all this :hug:

[Ariana]

All I will say on this topic is that adults who have defaulted on their vaccines have more to do with illness than unvaccinated children. Herd immunity is still EXTREMELY high at something like 90% compliance. The media is creating a whole lotta hype for nothing.

If you are truly worried about the littles in your care without shots make sure all the parents who interact with them have gotten their boosters as required every 10 years for life. I have them.

[Controlled Chaos]

Also this

[Controlled Chaos]

Last one - I promise I will go fill out my Food Program paper work now.
lovethis you all

[Willow]

All I will say on this topic is that adults who have defaulted on their vaccines have more to do with illness than unvaccinated children. Herd immunity is still EXTREMELY high at something like 90% compliance. The media is creating a whole lotta hype for nothing.

If you are truly worried about the littles in your care without shots make sure all the parents who interact with them have gotten their boosters as required every 10 years for life. I have them.

This is a valid point, although blood titer's frequently prove that boosters are unnecessary. A person may have antibodies present for much longer than the traditional booster schedule says they will (for some the original vaccine provides protection for a lifetime).

Those adults not up to date with boosters don't always (I'd even go so far as to say rarely) pose the same risk to the general public.


(Percentage of the population currently vaccinated varies wildly. In my state rates average 60-80% depending on the particular vaccine. In my particular county those rates are even lower).

[Angelsj]

Who in the heck argued otherwise and why does that matter so much to you?

Fact is, an infected vaccinated children will not spread measles as easily as an unvaccinated child will. That's simple biology. Exposure equates to better t-cell memory - equates to a stronger immune system - equates to a non or lessened symptomatic response to subsequent exposures. Less coughing equals less spreading. If one develops the cough that spreads the illness at all.

Fact is, your assertion was that you can prevent a non-vaccinated child from spreading measles simply by recognizing the symptoms and keeping them home.

On that front, you're wrong. Period.

I'm not here to argue whether your choice to vaccinate your child(ren) is wrong or not, only that the points you tried to make are.

It matters to me because I am not wrong. Your science is fair for natural exposure to an illness. Less so for a vaccination response. Artificial immunity does NOT build a stronger immune system, and there is a great deal of evidence that it actually weakens it.
Many who do not vaccinate work very hard to keep their children's immune systems strong, so they can weather the storm of measles, mumps or other childhood illnesses and develop complete immunity, not the artificial immunity that wears off and needs boosting.

My point was however, supportive of you. Feel free to vaccinate and to choose to work with those who vaccinate. Just don't insist that I vaccinate my kids against my principles to "protect" yours. It is insistence on "herd immunity" that bothers me.

Parents need to have choices based on their beliefs of what is best for their children. We have to live with the consequences of those choices. I worry any time I see those who want to take those choices from us.

How would you feel if the docs were saying, "we don't care how your kids responded to the vaccines. They have to get more right on schedule."? Choice and respect for our decisions and rights as parents is what it all comes down to.

[Ariana]

It is unfortunate on all sides because my child had a horrible allergic reaction to her first round of vaccines. The reaction was confirmed by two medical Dr's and an allergist when the vaccine was tested a 2nd time. Therefore she is not vaccinated and neither is my youngest. The DR's did not help me AT ALL in figuring out what component of the vaccine my daughter was allergic to. I thought that if we could figure it out I could get a vaccine made without that component. The DR in the end didn't seem to want to help me and recommended non vaccination instead.

EVERY TIME I tell a medical professional or a school administrator that my child is not vaccinated I am immediately judged. I got so much attitude from my school until I showed them my DR exempt form. Unfortunately I won't be provided one for my youngest daughter since I chose not to expose her at all. Vaccine injury is a real thing. The USA and some provinces in Canada have funds available for vaccine injured children and millions have been given since it's inception. I am just glad that in my case the severe reaction was not life threatening and didn't "injure" my child.

I believe in vaccines. I have all of mine and get them every 10 years but some parents choose not to get their kids vaccinated for various reasons and we should respect that. Look at the real numbers when it comes to "outbreaks". I was very worried about taking my 2 daughters to Disneyland in July and spoke to my DR about it. He told me that it was mostly unvaccinated adults spreading it and that the numbers were so low I shouldn't worry. Millions of people visit Disneyland each month and only 200 got infected. Not one person died! Yet the mass hysteria had me nearly cancelling my vacation!

[Ariana]

This is a valid point, although blood titer's frequently prove that boosters are unnecessary. A person may have antibodies present for much longer than the traditional booster schedule says they will (for some the original vaccine provides protection for a lifetime).

Those adults not up to date with boosters don't always (I'd even go so far as to say rarely) pose the same risk to the general public.


(Percentage of the population currently vaccinated varies wildly. In my state rates average 60-80% depending on the particular vaccine. In my particular county those rates are even lower).

Where I am it is much higher. My DR would disagree with your statement about adults posing less of a risk. I believe only certain vaccines provide life long immunity like polio. I have to get my tetanus, hepatitis, MMR shots every 10 years. Unless every person gets a blood analysis done (which I did) you won't really know so it is safest to get them.

[Lyss]

I'm not going touch the vax debate

...but I do have unvax'd dc kids. I don't advertise it though and I only have one family that is anti-vax (they signed religious exemption on my required state paperwork, although I know it's not religion based aversion). I do have a few additions to my contract. For the child's safety I can (and do) exclude them in the event someone in the house has exposed us to something communicable that would put the child at risk. I've used it once and like my normal illness exclusion policy payment is still due. My anti-vax family is super laid back and understanding they had no issues with the exclusions. The child herself got sick once, an illness that the others have been vax'd for, and was out for two weeks but my same Illness policy applies (symptom free 24hr before return, payment still due) and none of the other kids were affected but I did let the other patents know to watch for symptoms in case. Doesn't work for everyone but it works for me, right now anyway.

[LysesKids]

I'm not going touch the vax debate

...but I do have unvax'd dc kids. I don't advertise it though and I only have one family that is anti-vax (they signed religious exemption on my required state paperwork, although I know it's not religion based aversion). I do have a few additions to my contract. For the child's safety I can (and do) exclude them in the event someone in the house has exposed us to something communicable that would put the child at risk. I've used it once and like my normal illness exclusion policy payment is still due. My anti-vax family is super laid back and understanding they had no issues with the exclusions. The child herself got sick once, an illness that the others have been vax'd for, and was out for two weeks but my same Illness policy applies (symptom free 24hr before return, payment still due) and none of the other kids were affected but I did let the other patents know to watch for symptoms in case. Doesn't work for everyone but it works for me, right now anyway.

I do the same... I accept state waivers and exempt them during outbreaks according to health dept rules; my parents pay 50% if they can show Dr note within first 5 days; 100% pay while excluded if no Dr note; I don't play games with parents that refuse to go to the DR when a kid is ill - BTW, I have terminated care for a family for refusing to see a DR when the child clearly needed help...

[Willow]

It is unfortunate on all sides because my child had a horrible allergic reaction to her first round of vaccines. The reaction was confirmed by two medical Dr's and an allergist when the vaccine was tested a 2nd time. Therefore she is not vaccinated and neither is my youngest. The DR's did not help me AT ALL in figuring out what component of the vaccine my daughter was allergic to. I thought that if we could figure it out I could get a vaccine made without that component. The DR in the end didn't seem to want to help me and recommended non vaccination instead.

EVERY TIME I tell a medical professional or a school administrator that my child is not vaccinated I am immediately judged. I got so much attitude from my school until I showed them my DR exempt form. Unfortunately I won't be provided one for my youngest daughter since I chose not to expose her at all. Vaccine injury is a real thing. The USA and some provinces in Canada have funds available for vaccine injured children and millions have been given since it's inception. I am just glad that in my case the severe reaction was not life threatening and didn't "injure" my child.

I believe in vaccines. I have all of mine and get them every 10 years but some parents choose not to get their kids vaccinated for various reasons and we should respect that. Look at the real numbers when it comes to "outbreaks". I was very worried about taking my 2 daughters to Disneyland in July and spoke to my DR about it. He told me that it was mostly unvaccinated adults spreading it and that the numbers were so low I shouldn't worry. Millions of people visit Disneyland each month and only 200 got infected. Not one person died! Yet the mass hysteria had me nearly cancelling my vacation!

Not arguing, just clarifying. There were nearly 200 confirmed cases in the most recent outbreak, but that doesn't reveal how many were actually infected. The number was undoubtedly much larger, but because of vaccines, serious illness in larger populations was kept at bay.

And I'm wondering if your doctor is actually an immunologist or just an MD. Because an immunologist would completely disagree with the assertion that taking unvaccinated children to an area where an outbreak is actively occurring is any kind of safe. There is a reason why more and more states in the US are implementing policies that if an outbreak occurs, unvaccinated children are not allowed to attend public schools or licensed daycares.



Globally, measles remains a LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH amongst younger populations. The risk is real and hardly hype. It's not the media, those are the facts. I suggest you take another look at those "real numbers" you mention. 16 deaths an hour on average is nothing to brush off. Just because it's no longer considered endemic as it is in the rest of the world, doesn't mean we should become complacent.....unless we want to end up back in the same boat. in 2000 Measles was considered eradicated in the US. Look at all that have become infected since. It's only a matter of time before those numbers rise exponentially based on the currently plummeting vaccination rates.....


Just an fyi, allergy testing individual components of vaccines is next to impossible at this time. It was likely not that your doctors didn't want to help sort out the what, as much as there are no current standards established to determine actual threshold. You may not be allergic to cats, but offer a dander dose concentrated enough and you absolutely will react. Anyone will react to anything if the exposure is intense enough. There hasn't been enough research done to establish those limits for vaccine components yet. Take heart in knowing your kiddos doc wasn't necessarily complacent, there just isn't a way to accurately define levels yet.

I've already gotten the attitude from others as well (and my guy is just 9 months old!). It is frustrating to be lumped in under the assumption that I'm ignorant or just don't care about the rest of the general population

[Willow]

It matters to me because I am not wrong. Your science is fair for natural exposure to an illness. Less so for a vaccination response. Artificial immunity does NOT build a stronger immune system, and there is a great deal of evidence that it actually weakens it.
Many who do not vaccinate work very hard to keep their children's immune systems strong, so they can weather the storm of measles, mumps or other childhood illnesses and develop complete immunity, not the artificial immunity that wears off and needs boosting.

My point was however, supportive of you. Feel free to vaccinate and to choose to work with those who vaccinate. Just don't insist that I vaccinate my kids against my principles to "protect" yours. It is insistence on "herd immunity" that bothers me.

Parents need to have choices based on their beliefs of what is best for their children. We have to live with the consequences of those choices. I worry any time I see those who want to take those choices from us.

How would you feel if the docs were saying, "we don't care how your kids responded to the vaccines. They have to get more right on schedule."? Choice and respect for our decisions and rights as parents is what it all comes down to.

I completely disagree with everything you said in that first paragraph. If any of it were true people would have been a lot healthier and lived a lot longer 200 years ago when no one was vaccinated for anything. I've certainly never once heard anyone try to argue that vaccines offer only lessened "artificial" antibodies (I wasn't aware t cells can tell the difference, and wonder what you think vaccines consist of if not actual inactivated or attenuated viruses - it's not hocus pocus unicorn farts they put in there ), but at this point it's moot.

I will however reiterate, again:

I never once insisted you vaccinate your kids.
I never once insisted on herd immunity.
I never once said anything about taking any choices out of yours or anyone's hands.


You became defensive for absolutely no reason. Me saying I fear for the health of my own potentially unvaccinated child is no sort of attack on you or your ideals.


(Not saying it's true across the board, but that one family I had that chose not to vaccinate had the sickest kids I've ever encountered in my life. As in both children. Constantly. I swear the nearly year and a half they were in my care they weren't well a single day. Like LysesKids I eventually had to term because the extent of their medical care was honey, vitamin enriched smoothies and a whack job chiropractor. I couldn't watch the kids I'd grown to love suffer anymore and mom got pretty nasty when I finally called her on it. Holy buckets put a fork in me I was done, and admittedly it's more than swayed my opinion on this topic since).

[daycare]

didnt read into all of the fun above.

i have both in my care. I follow what my state laws are. which are the unvax child can continue to attend care until there is an outbreak and the county states that can not attend. it is also the county that dictates when they can return.

I don't have to disclose to any parent. it is confidential information

i also have children who are dealyed with their vax due to illness, they follow under the same laws as stated as above.

it is out of my control, however i can deny them care if I don't want to care for kids who don't participate. that is my choice.

however, my state just passed a law that all children MUST be vax to be in any form of childcare or school program.
Licensing has not added it into its regulations as of yet, I was told it could take up to a year before we will be required to enforce it.

[NoMoreJuice!]

it's not hocus pocus unicorn farts they put in there

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