2.9 Year Old Problem Child Ran Away

[Thriftylady]

You hit the nail on the head, Robin. This is 100% the responsibility of the op and her staff. She knew the child was a runner and didn't take the proper precautions to keep the child safe, either with locks, posting staff at the gate, alarms that sound when a gate opens, etc. If she felt it was beyond her capacity to take these extra steps, then she should've let the child go a long time ago. You cannot blame a kid for being curious, adventurous, etc, nor can you blame a parent for their child escaping when the parent wasn't even there and the staff KNEW she was a runner. Even if it's allowed to some degree at home, that doesn't make it ok to not take preventative measures to keep the child safe at daycare. If the child is allowed to climb the fence at home, do we allow it at daycare? If the child eats chocolate cake for breakfast at home, do we allow that too? Just because one thing is acceptable or "no big deal" at home, doesn't mean we allow it (or allow it passively because we didn't do anything to prevent it) at daycare. When cps shows up to investigate, will they be like "ohhhh it's allowed at home so you allowed it to happen here? Well, that's a different ballgame then. We'll just be on our way..." Absolutely not. They care about what the center does, what precautions they take, who was in charge of the child at the time of the incident, if the center is providing adequate supervision and safety, etc.
And frankly, I'm a little disturbed at the amount of people here who would place the blame on the child/parent and would term the child because of the staff's and the management's negligence.

While I agree with you that the child should have been more supervised, and there should be more safety measures in place, I would still term. To me a parent that acts like it is no big deal and allows something so serious at home is a parent I see as a liability to work with. IF the incident was reported (which I doubt was done) the daycare may very well be closed down over it. Perhaps they should be, I wasn't there so I don't know. But I won't work with a parent who has such a lax attitude about something so major.

[NightOwl]

While I agree with you that the child should have been more supervised, and there should be more safety measures in place, I would still term. To me a parent that acts like it is no big deal and allows something so serious at home is a parent I see as a liability to work with. IF the incident was reported (which I doubt was done) the daycare may very well be closed down over it. Perhaps they should be, I wasn't there so I don't know. But I won't work with a parent who has such a lax attitude about something so major.

I agree with that thrifty. I believe there are two totally separate issues in the original post. I think I focused so much on the blatant lack of supervision and/or preventative measures on the part of the daycare staff that I overlooked the issues with the parent. A disregard for the child's safety and a lack of any attempts by the parent to correct the behavior could be grounds for terming. Parents and caregivers HAVE to be a united team in order for the relationship to be successful. It sounds like that's not the case at all for the op.

However, whether the parent was on board with correcting the behavior and responding appropriately or acting the way she did, like it's no big deal, this situation ultimately fell on the staff as a serious mistake.

[Unregistered]

I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.

[Play Care]

I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.

Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.

[Heidi]

I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.

Actually, the OP DID lose the child for 20 minutes. OP knew the potential issue, the child is TWO, and there were multiple staff people.

I did not see anyone "crucifying" here. They did call her out a bit; but they also advised her to take corrective action by installing better security, increasing supervision, and possible termination. All these things the other provider did immediately, btw. She also came on here an completely blamed herself; not the child or the parent.

In her case, the child (who was 5, not 2) was left in a nearby room while the provider(who worked alone) was attending to personal needs.

I would also have to term this child. It's not the child's fault, but she would just be too great a liability for me.

[Blackcat31]

Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.

The OP didn't lose the child. Her staff did. I agree with the unregistered poster. The OP came here looking for advice on how to fix the issue so she could prevent it from happening again and was basically called a liar when she posted that the mother didn't care and laughed about it.

We also do not know if OP self-reported or not. We don't know if she did or didn't do everything right or wrong, we ONLY know what she told us. We don't know all the details. Just like with MV. We only know what she told us.

It's never okay to lose a child. Ever. But I won't point fingers when I don't know the environment, the staff, the provider, the child or anything other than what we are told in a post and I refuse to lambaste a provider for asking for help.

I feel it's akin to scolding a drowning person before tossing them a life preserver.

There are a few other points I will disagree with but I do agree with the unregistered poster.

Losing a child is unacceptable but if no one ever tries to help providers, ESPECIALLY newer, less experienced providers how are they ever going to learn anything? Instead, they are driven off of forum boards that are there to "educate" them and help them brainstorm ideas, tips and tricks in which they can use to prevent things from happening again.

Now if the OP said it has happened a couple times before, then I understand but she came here the FIRST time in hopes of finding a solution to her problem. Which I think it a good thing. Well, was a good thing... it's obviously not a resource for her anymore

I suggested termination and I stand by what I said because if she continues to care for this child WITHOUT the support of the parent and without the tools to move forward then its a tragedy just waiting to happen.

[Blackcat31]

In her case, the child (who was 5, not 2) was left in a nearby room while the provider(who worked alone) was attending to personal needs.

I don't think saying one provider was working alone is a valid excuse to differentiate between the two situations.

In my eyes, a child was lost. Period.

Comparing the two as in who did what right or wrong is pointless as the OP in this thread never came back to tell us what she did or didn't do.

I also don't think that coming here and "blaming" yourself for what happened is an automatic excusal for what did happen. Yet, she got a ton of support.

OP didn't get any of that and that makes me sad because we (readers/posters) don't know the whole story. Had she had access to a private area, she may have told a different story. Who knows...

Too many missing details and too many double standards in my opinion.

[Play Care]

I said that mom's reaction was meaningless to me, and I stand by that. Not that it didn't happen, but because often parents don't realize that things are a much bigger deal when they happen at day care, KWIM? So mom may have very well laughed it off. I know there have been times doing dc where I've had to say point blank to parents " this is a BIG deal and may well cause me to end providing care!" but until I lay it out, they don't realize it's not normal or a big deal.

I will say that my that the majority of the posts responding to the OP were "with" the OP especially some of the first replies.

[Play Care]

I just quickly went through and read the whole thread.

There were some questions, but I don't really see any bashing or accusations.

The OP hasn't come back to update which would be helpful. I don't see any reply (with the exception of some of the unregistered posters) that are really attacking the OP:confused:

You're right that we don't know what the OP did, and that would help clarify things.

[Thriftylady]

I just love how all you feel its okay to reprimand this provider for coming here and asking for help on what to do about this situation before it does get worse and how she should handle things moving forward verses showing her the same support and helpfulness that you all poured out to MarinaVanessa who actually DID lose a child. Talk about a double standard.
OP, i would terminate this child too because if she did figure out how to run off, you'd be crucified by these ladies and not given one ounce of understanding or helpfulness that MarinaVanessa got. Apparently most these ladies are perfect and couldnt imagine things happening under their watch. I totally understand now why some providers cover things up and do some of the things they do. If your own collegues cant help you make changes for the future so that you can have preventative measures in place, which is what i thought you were asking, then we're all in this alone.
Im sorry this happened to you and even more sorry that you probably wont be back here. I hope you are able to figure out what to do.

Many of us did not "reprimand" her. Many of us offered advice. Regardless of what happened, it is NOT okay to loose a child. To much can happen in such a short time. But sadly, it does happen from time to time no matter how careful we are. To me, this child is a liability because this child sees this as a game apparently, so if you keep the child in care you have been put on notice and are accepting that you have to keep an eye on this child EVERY SECOND. If you can't do that, then you can't continue care.

I don't see that as being rude or bashing the OP, I see it as the truth. Mostly the people who are rude or nasty in any way on this board are unregistered. And many of them only come here to start trouble it seems.

[Blackcat31]

Many of us did not "reprimand" her. Many of us offered advice. Regardless of what happened, it is NOT okay to loose a child. To much can happen in such a short time. But sadly, it does happen from time to time no matter how careful we are. To me, this child is a liability because this child sees this as a game apparently, so if you keep the child in care you have been put on notice and are accepting that you have to keep an eye on this child EVERY SECOND. If you can't do that, then you can't continue care.

I don't see that as being rude or bashing the OP, I see it as the truth. Mostly the people who are rude or nasty in any way on this board are unregistered. And many of them only come here to start trouble it seems.

This is not the case in this situation ...... or they wouldn't have had any idea how MV was/wasn't treated.

Also, from my perspective.....the point she was making was how differently the two situations were handled with the provider that DID actually lose a child for MUCH longer than 20 minutes receiving support, understanding and a much different approach then this OP received.

I personally don't think unreg was condoning anyone losing a child.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I stand firm in my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm simply saying that the OP and her staff DROPPED THE BALL in a big , serious and potentially life threatening way. When it comes to the safety of children, I see certain things as non negotiable, like providing direct supervision at all times. Its that simple. BC is correct in that we don't really know if the parent laughed it off. As a parent, I certainly wouldn't be laughing, and that's my opinion. Would anyone here laugh it off? Not calling her a "liar", just find it hard to believe. Period.

Go back and look at the title of the post. "problem child ran away". ...... I am sure she is difficult, but the problem was not tbe child, it was failed security. I'm willing to bet tbe op HAS come back and not liked my response and others. Not liking the advice she was given is her problem, not mine. Safety first, supervision at all times, head counts and secured doors and latches. I don't see that as lambasting. I DO see that as advise.

And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.

[Blackcat31]

I stand firm in my opinion. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm simply saying that the OP and her staff DROPPED THE BALL in a big , serious and potentially life threatening way. When it comes to the safety of children, I see certain things as non negotiable, like providing direct supervision at all times. Its that simple. BC is correct in that we don't really know if the parent laughed it off. As a parent, I certainly wouldn't be laughing, and that's my opinion. Would anyone here laugh it off? Not calling her a "liar", just find it hard to believe. Period.

Go back and look at the title of the post. "problem child ran away". ...... I am sure she is difficult, but the problem was not tbe child, it was failed security. I'm willing to bet tbe op HAS come back and not liked my response and others. Not liking the advice she was given is her problem, not mine. Safety first, supervision at all times, head counts and secured doors and latches. I don't see that as lambasting. I DO see that as advise.

And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.

But I think as a veteran provider, it's our responsibility to get as many details as we can before passing judgment.

Saying it wouldn't have happened at your center isn't at all helpful as I bet MV thought the same thing. I think that's a pretty bold statement to make and one that "says" to those it has or almost has happened to that they are somehow less than or not good providers. I think those kinds of statements can be very hurtful.

I think as veteran providers our first instinct is should be to help and support newish providers before we pass down judgment or opinions.

We've all been new at this. We've all learned things the hard way. Some lessons harder than others and some A LOT more important than others but we were still all NEW and unexperienced at one point.

Also, if you click on OPs profile you can see she has NOT logged in since 7/27...5 hours after she posted so again, we don't know if she read or didn't read anything beyond that.

[Blackcat31]

And since MV's post was private, I'm pretty sure the unregistered post was from someone who is actually a long time member as well. I'm not going to hide my opinions behind unregistered. Sorry. I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but sometimes, when serious safety breeches are posted, it bothers me to my core. And I will continue to speak up, especially on serious safety issues. I'm not perfect and don't pretend to be, but gosh darn it, safety first. And no, this wouldn't have happened at my center.

You are correct but in some cases, stating things as unregistered can be MORE beneficial than posting under a user name as many of us already have preconceived notions or experiences with certain members and I would hate to have something I said be taken out of context or my point missed simply because I was the one that said it. kwim?

There are many times on this forum that I see advice given and no one pays much attention but then a veteran provider comes along and says the same thing and everyone suddenly takes what "veteran provider" said as the best advice ever..... as if no one else mentioned it at all.

[NightOwl]

Um, the OP DID lose a child. The child was gone for 20 minutes (according to the OP) and they couldn't find her. Sounds "lost" to me.

The difference between the OP and MV?

MarinaVanessa did everything RIGHT when it happened to her. Her dck wasn't a known runner (unlike the OP). When she realized she was missing (ie: off property), she called the police to assist with the search and self reported to licensing (unlike the OP). She didn't blame the parents for something that happened on her watch (unlike the OP). She immediately had a door alarm installed(unlike the OP). She worked out a plan to ensure it never happened again. Basically she "providered up" and behaved like the professional she is and took her lumps.
When it happened to MV, she was the one saying "*I* should have done this or that better" rather than pointing fingers and parent blaming.

I also want to point out that MV, like most of us, runs her day care herself. According to the OP FOUR staff members were there and had no idea where the child was. Not that it's ever okay to lose a child, but in my mind the reason one has additional staff is so things like bathroom and lunch breaks are covered and kids are never left out of sight.

No one is perfect and we all get things wrong at times. But I felt most of the replies here were pretty gently worded with a lot of great advice given.

Perfectly stated.