CPS Investigation

[MarinaVanessa]

You learn something new every day. I honestly just assumed it was 'normal' developmental curiosity of 3-4 yo play. I'm also thinking the state goes above and beyond(or overboard??) sometimes. I'm all for protecting children, and it must be hard to draw that line sometimes, as to what's normal and what's not. It's just super scary sometimes to think how far an innocent situation could be taken.

It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

Think of it like biting ... a child bites and leaves a large bruise or ruptures the skin. The child is not severely hurt and this type of behavior is "typical" for the children's age ... licensing in our state would still consider this reportable because it left a mark/broke the skin. Their concern is the possibility of infection and passing disease to children.

Another example for our state is a child throws a block and it hits a child let's say on the arm ... not reportable. But let's say that the child gets hit in the head. No mark is left. This is still reportable in our state because the child was hit in the head and there could be a possible head injury that we can't visually see. Licencing understands that this type of behavior is normal and typical for children their age but it isn't acceptable and needs to be taken care of and stopped if it continues.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?

[MyAngels]

I'm in CA not in WA but i hear our licensing requirements are similar. In my state this would definitely fall under "unusual incident" and would need to be reported to licensing, which you did. At that point it would be up to licensing to determine whether they think the issue is reportable to CPS which is what they did think and they told you to call and report, which you did. You've covered your bases and did what you could. You were vigilant and in the room and saw what happened so the children were supervised, you were just not able to stop the child from taking out his private part and from stopping the other child from touching it.

Is it typical behavior? Sure. But we all have different expectations that vary from state to state over what is "unusual" and "reportable" and what isn't. They say when unsure, ask ... and you did that and followed licensing's recommendations. You did your job.

CPS will send someone over to interview you and will probably call the parents of both children to interview them as well. They will just want to make sure that this isn't behavior that's accepted in your daycare and that the children aren't left alone or unsupervised which would allow this type of behavior to continue. If they feel concerned in any way they may even interview the children. At that point they just may want to make sure that the child exposing himself isn't being sexually abused at home somehow etc. but I doubt it'll go that route by the way that you've explained it.

I agree with this. It sounds like it was handled properly. It doesn't sound like CPS was called on the parents, but on the incident in case something ever does come of it. I would have done the same thing.

[Unregistered]

It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?

I agree. A similar situation occurred when I worked at a center. A child told another child to touch his private parts. The other child said no, and the first child kept insisting. CPS was called just to be on the safe side and the center found out there was already an open CPS case on the child/family. You can never be too sure that it is just "natural age curiosity".

[Thriftylady]

It is normal ... it's very typical for children this age to be curious obout their bodies and the bodies of their friends ... but in my state this type of behavior is not considered "acceptable" in a child care or school setting.

Think of it like biting ... a child bites and leaves a large bruise or ruptures the skin. The child is not severely hurt and this type of behavior is "typical" for the children's age ... licensing in our state would still consider this reportable because it left a mark/broke the skin. Their concern is the possibility of infection and passing disease to children.

Another example for our state is a child throws a block and it hits a child let's say on the arm ... not reportable. But let's say that the child gets hit in the head. No mark is left. This is still reportable in our state because the child was hit in the head and there could be a possible head injury that we can't visually see. Licencing understands that this type of behavior is normal and typical for children their age but it isn't acceptable and needs to be taken care of and stopped if it continues.

KWIM? Again, it varies from state to state though and some states are more relaxed while others are more strict.

Also if this behavior of a more sexual nature is happening because the child has been exposed to sexual acts at home or is being sexually abused somehow the provider will want a paper trail which would show this behavior as documented and that she self-reported so that she isn't blamed by the parents if they suddenly find themselves being questioned by CPS. It will also help CPS in their case against the parents because the provider is a witness to this child's sexual behavior. This is an EXTREME case but it has happened and happens more than you think. What seems like "typical" natural curiosity could be reported to CPS where they could possibly have a case already opened on the child for what is actually not "natural curiosity". Am I making sense?

I would be just as upset if my child threw a block and hit someone and CPS got called. I was a foster parent and had foster kids that I was pretty sure were removed from home over nonsense. And then just because they were put into the foster care system, they were put on medications. I had one girl whose doctor took her off medications and the social worker called and demanded she was put back on so they were prescribed. I am not saying every child is abused within the system, and some need taken from their homes. But if normal childhood behavior causes it, it is a tragedy. I am not saying I wouldn't call CPS if I suspect something, because I will but in the case of "playing doctor" or one child throwing a block and hitting another, NO WAY.

[MarinaVanessa]

I would be just as upset if my child threw a block and hit someone and CPS got called. I was a foster parent and had foster kids that I was pretty sure were removed from home over nonsense. And then just because they were put into the foster care system, they were put on medications. I had one girl whose doctor took her off medications and the social worker called and demanded she was put back on so they were prescribed. I am not saying every child is abused within the system, and some need taken from their homes. But if normal childhood behavior causes it, it is a tragedy. I am not saying I wouldn't call CPS if I suspect something, because I will but in the case of "playing doctor" or one child throwing a block and hitting another, NO WAY.

I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.

[Thriftylady]

I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.

Okay that is different to me. Reporting it to licensing is one thing. Calling CPS over small things is what bothers me. I still think that reporting normal sexual stuff (that usually isn't sexual at that age) is overboard.

[Crystal]

I think I didn't make it clear ... these examples are reportable to licensing ... then they determine whether they think it's reportable to CPS. I doubt a child getting hit in the head would be reportable to CPS but sexual behavior whether natural curiosity or not is reportable in our state.

In our state licensing takes the "proactive" approach. We had a child get hit on the head by a scooter handle while playing at a daycare center and the child ended up with a brain bleed. The good thing was that the parent was called and told right away about getting hit on the head and the parent chose to stop by and pick him up and take him in to the DR. He ended up needing surgery. The first thing licensing did was check to see if the center made a "licensing" report. They weren't required to report it to CPS I don't think. The little boy recovered fine I think.

Injuries at child care in California are reported as Unusual Incidents only IF it requires a visit to the doctor. You do not have to report a child being hit in the head by a block, etc. unless it requires a visit to the doctor. Certainly you can call and ask licensing if they think you should, but it is not a regulation.

[KidGrind]

There is nothing to the story I am hiding. There has been a lot of penis curiosity after one child went to dr. for infection 2x. I believe it started with trying to process the situation by trying to play dr. with friend. (No touching, caught it). Parents notified, everyone talked about private areas. Then again, and mom told him you can be a foot dr. not a penis dr. (his response was, "but I am a dr!") I said, no more dr. we are firefighters and put that kit away. I think this child figured out this was a button pusher for adults (he has been referred out prior for behavioral challenges). So then it became a challenge to see what he could get away with. Nothing. I made him my shadow. Yesterday, I thought things have been going pretty good, heard nothing recently about penis's so I let my guard down a little. Still high alert for dr. play or house play or anything involving removing clothes. He didn't remove clothes, he stuck it out the top of his pants, he didn't lay down-he was on his knees, he didn't hide-he was right in front of me. It appeared to be train-block play. I just got the something not right vibe just as other child reached out to touch it.

I called because of the WAC about inappropriate touching. Even though I caught it just as it was happening, even though I do not feel it was inappropriate for their age, it is up to perception. I wanted to cover my butt. Called licensor. She agreed and said self-report so it's on record.
Parents are up to date on this and very supportive.

You did the right thing!

You called your licensor and followed her recommendation. If I were the parent and you told me the procedure and your licensor recommendation, I’d respect you.

[Unregistered]

My history-and some clarity

Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!

If your licensor told you to make the call, then you did what you were suppose to do. I have a sensitivity to CPS, as they were called on my sister and she was investigated and it was a horrible experience ad it was over nothing. I guess I was just surprised they told you to call them, but a PP stated her regs, so I guess it makes sense if that is the protocol. I would probably still get rid of the kid doing it if you feel like his parents are not taking it seriously. It probably won't be the last time, especilly if he realizes he can do it and get attention. Good luck and try not to stress too much! :hug:

[KiddieCahoots]

Thank you for the responses and different views. Though I must say I am shocked about the negative backlash I got. It made me sad, and extremely thankful I did not sign in and stayed anonymous.
My experience: I have been licensed more than a dozen years. My education is in ECE. I am under 3 additional programs/agencies other than licensing. I live under a microscope, and I am okay with that, keeps me on my toes.
My call to CPS was not of suspected abuse, or that I felt the child acted inappropriate. I explained the whole background of the situation to the intake worker. I don't think the families should be investigated nor do I think they will. I was self-reporting me, my business. It happened here. I was basically tattling on myself that even though I have been pro-active and aware it wasn't enough.
Do I feel I deserve a compliance report (ruin my perfect record), no I don't. I was vigilant and I have records of what I have done through the whole thing. Nothing has happened yet...I love the waiting, not.
As far as the parents being angry at me. I told the parent of the child with the interest. "If this happens again, (any interest in penis's) I will have to make a CPS call". Please talk about appropriate behavior, keeping in pants, no one looks at each others etc. Why? Cause this parent has no follow through and it's causing other behavioral issues. The parents of the other child took it serious. This parent is like I will take away TV but you can play your Ipad!(Not suggesting should be punished trying to give example of parenting style).

So at the end of the day, I am sad, I am stressed, and I am a little scared. However, I know I did the right thing my integrity is intact.

Happy Wednesday!

.....I agree with you. What if you went againt your licensor and didn't call CPS? Is that a battle any of us should be taking on, and risking losing our business? We are not the people who determine if it is acceptable or not, we are only the people that are governed by our license to report.

[Josiegirl]

If your licensor told you to make the call, then you did what you were suppose to do. I have a sensitivity to CPS, as they were called on my sister and she was investigated and it was a horrible experience ad it was over nothing. I guess I was just surprised they told you to call them, but a PP stated her regs, so I guess it makes sense if that is the protocol. I would probably still get rid of the kid doing it if you feel like his parents are not taking it seriously. It probably won't be the last time, especilly if he realizes he can do it and get attention. Good luck and try not to stress too much! :hug:

I hope my replies didn't sound like backlash to you, it's certainly not intended. I know it's my own ignorance of any regulations like that and I don't think Vt. has anything to that effect. I detest the way almost every thing we do could be held under a microscope. It never used to be that way and I still believe the state jumps in too hard and fast at times, just knowing a couple of issues within my own small town. Actually, it was the local school system that took matters way overboard and ended up shattering a couple different familys' home lives even though it was nothing.

[Thriftylady]

I don't think I could do daycare in a state with such laws. I for sure wouldn't "report" myself for something that I didn't do wrong and happened between two children with supervision. The states are far over reaching on these things, and I agree we should not be under such a microscope. Most of us are in it to love and protect children. It is the ones that are not in it for that that I worry about. I didn't mean to sound harsh, I just know how I would feel if someone called CPS about something that kids just do.

[Controlled Chaos]

I apologize if I came across as harsh yesterday. It sounds like you followed the regs in your state. Good luck

[Janiam]

I had a somewhat similar situation a few months ago, only a parent complained to me about a child touching her child ....3 weeks prior. This was from my drama mama and a long story. I termed immediately and contacted my licensor to give her a heads up becouse I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt this incident didn't happen. She said I needed to make a CPS report due to the children's ages. 11 days later drama mama makes a report. I am so thankful I covered my own butt and came out clear on the other side. It was very stressful for me and the childs family, but they are great clients and the transparency with the parents, licensing and CPS was very beneficial. I documented every thing possible and the investigation came back unfounded. I think if you didn't make a report and a parent decides later to make report it will look like you are hiding something. I think you did the right thing. If there is an investigation it will be uncomfortable but CYA and hopefully you too will come out clear on the other side. Best of luck, I hope it goes quickly for you.