Reported Them

[LysesKids]

I am licensed for 12. BY MYSELF.

My kids range in age from infant to age 5. None have actually attended Kindergarten.

Like someone else said, 12 is WAY easier than 6. I have had 10-12 kids by myself for over 2 decades without a ding on my record or reason to ever feel that I cannot manage 12 kids alone.

The key to anything is routine and consistency. I have clear rules, boundaries and expectations and my families all work WITH me not against me in guiding and disciplining their child(ren). ← That makes a huge difference too...

The days when I have less than 8 children are tough!

Seems I work the same way... when all 4 babies are here it runs smoother, one or two and I am bored out of my skull . They play well together now that they all crawl or walk. They like eating together too. It's like they want to do follow the leader all the time and routines are normal. I use to have 6 under 2.5 years in Indiana and always had 5 under 24 months in Arkansas... never had an issue

[momofboys]

I don't think that is fair. Those of us who operate legally (I am legally unlicensed but was licensed in another state before). We spend extra money making sure we follow all the laws and procedures. Then we get some people who want to cut corners at every turn, not doing things by the regulations and they undercut us because they are not doing what they should be doing. To do things the right way costs money. I for one get really irked when I see people on FB post they will do childcare for someone looking for pennies, because I know many of them are not doing things like many of us do. Feeding kids ramen noodles and putting them in front of a tv all day is NOT childcare.

I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.

[AuntTami]

I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.

I believe this assumption is being made based upon the rate that the "provider" is charging.

I am cheap for my area at $135/week and there are TONS of women offering care in my area for $75-$100/week. The maximum amount of children we are allowed without a license is 3. That's $300/week. $1200 a month.

Can you pay rent/mortgage, all of your utilities, plus the additional utilities used because of the extra bodies, and all of your other bills, and still afford to provide an excellent curriculum and healthy, well balanced meals, for not only your family but your daycare kids too on $1200 a month?

I can BARELY do it at $135 a week and I've only been able to make it work because my DH makes enough to mostly cover our monthly bills. There's just no way.

[Thriftylady]

I don't care that you are reporting or whether it's appropriate to do so (although when it's illegal it seems appropriate so I agree). I guess my issue is the assumption the other care is worse. How do you know they watch tv all day or eat ramen noodles? I'm sure you would be upset if someone said that about you. Unless you have been in the home how would you know?

Edited to add the following- in my state (OH) you are not required to be licensed & I have always provided care by the rules/paid taxes, etc.

I lost one of my little ones, a 12 month old to a SAHM that was charging $30 a week for full time care. It costs me at least that to feed the kids well and provide activities such as arts and crafts for them. On top of that the extra water, utilities, wear and tear, replacement of toys. Heck I can't take care of my own kids for $30 a week.

[Blackcat31]

I believe this assumption is being made based upon the rate that the "provider" is charging.

I am cheap for my area at $135/week and there are TONS of women offering care in my area for $75-$100/week. The maximum amount of children we are allowed without a license is 3. That's $300/week. $1200 a month.

Can you pay rent/mortgage, all of your utilities, plus the additional utilities used because of the extra bodies, and all of your other bills, and still afford to provide an excellent curriculum and healthy, well balanced meals, for not only your family but your daycare kids too on $1200 a month?

I can BARELY do it at $135 a week and I've only been able to make it work because my DH makes enough to mostly cover our monthly bills. There's just no way.

Assuming care is poor or low quality based on rate is as bad as assuming care is "less than" because a provider is unlicensed.

IMO, quality of care has nothing to do with rates or licensing.

I could take the 12 kids I have here daily at a rate of $25 per week and still provide the same level of care I do now.

I am an established provider that has the equipment and overhead already so I don't have many expenses.

My expenses do not dictate my rates or the quality of care I provide.

.....just sharing an alternate perspective.

[Thriftylady]

Assuming care is poor or low quality based on rate is as bad as assuming care is "less than" because a provider is unlicensed.

IMO, quality of care has nothing to do with rates or licensing.

I could take the 12 kids I have here daily at a rate of $25 per week and still provide the same level of care I do now.

I am an established provider that has the equipment and overhead already so I don't have many expenses.

My expenses do not dictate my rates or the quality of care I provide.

.....just sharing an alternate perspective.

I guess it depends. For me, they would affect the quality if I couldn't afford good foods, and such things. And although I could charge just bare minimum, I am sure at some point I would begin to feel overworked and underpaid and I am sure at some point that would affect the care even if I didn't want it to. I am doing this to make a living not just break even.

[Blackcat31]

I guess it depends. For me, they would affect the quality if I couldn't afford good foods, and such things. And although I could charge just bare minimum, I am sure at some point I would begin to feel overworked and underpaid and I am sure at some point that would affect the care even if I didn't want it to. I am doing this to make a living not just break even.

I agree there is a BIG difference between surviving and thriving but my point was it is unfair to judge a provider based on rates or whether or not she/he holds a license.

[Heidi]

I agree there is a BIG difference between surviving and thriving but my point was it is unfair to judge a provider based on rates or whether or not she/he holds a license.

True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard:confused: I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.

[Thriftylady]

True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard:confused: I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.

Being unlicensed is legal in Ohio, but I have seen the same things. And some of the SAHM's doing care are way out of compliance in ratios. And I don't care if I could easily deal with 12 kids, if the law says 6 I should follow the law. But many of the SAHM's here doing it dirt cheap have some if not all of the above things and way more children than allowed.

I guess to me it comes down to one thing QUALITY childcare. And it irks me when I see anyone doing otherwise.

[Heidi]

Being unlicensed is legal in Ohio, but I have seen the same things. And some of the SAHM's doing care are way out of compliance in ratios. And I don't care if I could easily deal with 12 kids, if the law says 6 I should follow the law. But many of the SAHM's here doing it dirt cheap have some if not all of the above things and way more children than allowed.

I guess to me it comes down to one thing QUALITY childcare. And it irks me when I see anyone doing otherwise.

Yes!

I do think that having to be regulated to care for 1 or 2 children is a ridiculous regulation, as some states have. Someone was trying to push it through in WI a few years ago, but I think (hope) they realized that it's just too hard to regulate. They can't keep up with illegal operations now; even blatant ones. I can't imagine if they raised the standard to any unrelated children. It'd be almost impossible to police.

I'm honestly not a letter-of-the-law person. If I knew my neighbor had 4 kids and wasn't licensed, and I saw no other concerns, I'd let it go. But 12? That's a safety issue, IMO. I know BC can have 12 in Minnesota, but there are a LOT of standards she has to meet for basic safety alone. Normally, I'd say 12 is too many, but it really does depend on so many factors. Personally, at this point, I'm happy with a group of 5. I can have 8, but 5 is a nice group, and we can all fit at the same table for meals.

[NightOwl]

I have to say I am super jealous of some of you! In Alabama, we don't have the option of being legally unlicensed. It's all or nothing and our regulations are strict. No more than 6, only 2 can be under 12 months. I could definitely handle more, and would love to have more, but it's illegal. You guys who can have 6 or more and avoid being licensed are lucky ducks!

I know the standards are, well, standards, but wouldn't it be nice if the number of children allowed is decided based on training and experience? Like, 4 for the first year, 6 for the second year if a certain amount of training had been completed, 8 for the 3rd if even more training was completed, etc. And there would be a ceiling, of course, but this just seems more logical to me than saying a first year provider can have the same amount as a 10th year provider, kwim? I'm rambling, sorry. Just a random thought inspired by this thread.

[Thriftylady]

I have to say I am super jealous of some of you! In Alabama, we don't have the option of being legally unlicensed. It's all or nothing and our regulations are strict. No more than 6, only 2 can be under 12 months. I could definitely handle more, and would love to have more, but it's illegal. You guys who can have 6 or more and avoid being licensed are lucky ducks!

I know the standards are, well, standards, but wouldn't it be nice if the number of children allowed is decided based on training and experience? Like, 4 for the first year, 6 for the second year if a certain amount of training had been completed, 8 for the 3rd if even more training was completed, etc. And there would be a ceiling, of course, but this just seems more logical to me than saying a first year provider can have the same amount as a 10th year provider, kwim? I'm rambling, sorry. Just a random thought inspired by this thread.

I guess I see where you are coming from, but really I would feel better if they did more to shut down those who were not providing quality care. And more to educate the parents that they need to look for quality care, not always cheap care.

[Annalee]

True....

BUT...(sorry)....

We make a lot of our assumptions based on our experiences. I can tell you that my experience with "illegal" providers in our area has been pretty consistent.

-More children than one adult can handle, often-times and "assistant" who is actually their own home-schooled or off-for-the-summer preteen/teenager.
-Little or no real equipment, mostly garage sale stuff or their own kids old toys, generally in poor repair.
-No sense of routine, no consistency in daily schedule, no real guidelines for the kids
- A lot of TV on..either background noise or provider watching or kids parked
-Meals are poorly cooked and poorly served (as in, chicken nuggets on a paper plate in front of the TV).
-Provider has NO training in child development, guidance, CPR, Shaken Baby Syndrome
-No adult in the home has had a background check done. That doesn't guarantee anything, I know, but it does rule out some of the "rif-raf". We live in a small community, and presumably everyone knows who the rif-raf is, but not always. Worst cases are almost always the provider's boyfriends.

There are 5 illegal providers in my county that I know of. For each one of these people, 5/6 items above are true. One provider also doesn't take the children outside; EVER. She tells people it's so they don't mess up her yard:confused: I'm guessing she doesn't want anyone to know how many kiddos she's got there.

I agree 100% because this is how illegal providers are in my part of the state but the state doesn't have time to deal with the issue. I did an interview last week since one of the illegals closed....The client told me there were 11 every day to one provider...then told me this provider took care of the client's kids while she and hubby went on trips which I said I would not do....But when I brought out my handbook and contract separated and what was needed at daycare and what was to be followed...I was asked several times "do I have to pay for that day" and I always said yes, 52 weeks a year...she then said "Well, we didn't have to do this much paperwork at xxxx",..I said."BUT I am licensed".....this went on an hour and I finally just cut it off....I offer a 3-step interview...she did not make it to step 2::

[LysesKids]

I agree 100% because this is how illegal providers are in my part of the state but the state doesn't have time to deal with the issue. I did an interview last week since one of the illegals closed....The client told me there were 11 every day to one provider...then told me this provider took care of the client's kids while she and hubby went on trips which I said I would not do....But when I brought out my handbook and contract separated and what was needed at daycare and what was to be followed...I was asked several times "do I have to pay for that day" and I always said yes, 52 weeks a year...she then said "Well, we didn't have to do this much paperwork at xxxx",..I said."BUT I am licensed".....this went on an hour and I finally just cut it off....I offer a 3-step interview...she did not make it to step 2::

Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step ; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap

[Annalee]

Even though I am legally licensed exempt, I do the same; I would say over 75% of the people who read my website don't contact me because I do act like a full licensed childcare... I do a phone interview first, I don't allow hassling on fees, I have set vacations & I am only one of 2 eco healthy childcares in the state. If you make it to my home, you still have to pass the 3rd step ; like you, I have tons of paperwork... I look at it this way, my website weeds out the people that want to cut corners or just want cheap