thoughts and Ideas please, KIND OF LONG

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  • daycare
    Advanced Daycare.com *********
    • Feb 2011
    • 16259

    thoughts and Ideas please, KIND OF LONG

    I have a conference tonight and needs some thoughts and ideas on how I can help parents with this issue.

    Issue:

    DCG age 4 is having sleep issues. She struggles every night to go to bed, it is a constant fight with the parents, the child sings, tells stories, kicks legs, sounds like does everything to keep herself awake.

    this is their bed time routine, they can play from 7-730, then at 730 they read until about 750, brush your teeth, love and hugs, then lights out at 8pm. Child does not fall asleep some nights until almost 11pm because she is doing the above listed activities.

    Parents struggle each morning to wake up child, which child is here most days by 730-8:00 at the latest. so def is not getting enough sleep.

    The issue here at daycare is that the child is just falling apart and some days can't make it through lunch time. She is so tired that by 11am she is having one melt down after the next and we keep her up until she eats, then falls on her face and sleeps for about 1.5-3 hours. On days that she does not nap, meaning she does not fall asleep, she is a handful in the afternoon. She again will have massive melt downs, crying fits, can't control her emotions at all. this has has been an issue for sometime now.

    several months ago I suggested talking with their doc about getting on melatonin which the parents said worked but the doctor told them it had side affects and not to use it long term. so they took her off and now are back to the battle of bed time again.

    I told dcp we needed to meet to see how we can deal with this. Our program requires naps. If you don't need a nap, you have out grown our program. This child has all of the signs of still needing a nap and to me it sounds like she is just winning the game of refusing to go to bed.

    My suggestion is that they need to try 3 things

    sticker chart, you go to sleep by XYZ time, you get a sticker and at the end of the week get _________________.

    or tough love- on sunday night if you don't go to bed by xyz time then no preplay or stories the next night and you will earn them. If I have to tell you to go to bed more than once, I take you lovey doll away, each time I have to tell you to go to sleep, you are going to lose something else. This is what I had to do with my daughter, she was a nightmare to put to bed when she was little. did the same stuff.

    Or 3, they need to put her to bed at 7 or 730, she is getting over that hump.

    I am not too sure what to do here. What else can you guys suggest or what do you think about this situation? Also, the child does not nap on weekends and will still pull the same game of not falling asleep until about 9 or 10 on those nights.

    I am about to pull my hair out and so are the parents. they are super awesome people and their child is such a sweetie, but with all this lack of sleep, she is just a handful to take on each day.

    OK WHATS YOUR TAKE ON THIS..GIVE IT TO ME....LOL SORRY SO LONG
  • Thriftylady
    Daycare.com Member
    • Aug 2014
    • 5884

    #2
    What kind of play are they doing until 7:30? Is it calm quiet play, or is it rowdy play?

    The melatonin thing is right, to long of time can lead to side effects. As someone who deals with sleep issues myself, my doctor told me the need for sleep outweighs the side effects, but I am an adult not a child so it may be different.

    It sounds to me like this child is doing exactly what you said, playing a game and winning.

    Comment

    • Josiegirl
      Daycare.com Member
      • Jun 2013
      • 10834

      #3
      I think I'd discuss any foods she might be having after daycare that might be stimulating, any kind of playing or tv shows that might cause her mind to get all wired up. With some kids, the more tired they are, the more wired they are and it becomes almost impossible to calm themselves down for sleeping.
      These are just thoughts so take them as you wish but maybe eliminate the 7-7:30 play time and move her bedtime up earlier, some nice quiet snuggling, favorite calm book, maybe some soft music to set the tone. Dim the lights...that sort of thing.

      Comment

      • daycare
        Advanced Daycare.com *********
        • Feb 2011
        • 16259

        #4
        Originally posted by Thriftylady
        What kind of play are they doing until 7:30? Is it calm quiet play, or is it rowdy play?

        The melatonin thing is right, to long of time can lead to side effects. As someone who deals with sleep issues myself, my doctor told me the need for sleep outweighs the side effects, but I am an adult not a child so it may be different.

        It sounds to me like this child is doing exactly what you said, playing a game and winning.
        it is quiet play, not too sure if she plays with her sibling or alone. But dcm did say it's quiet time.....

        I did notice that dcm also said that she reads stories to both kids together from 730-750, perhaps there is some wind up going on there too??

        Comment

        • daycare
          Advanced Daycare.com *********
          • Feb 2011
          • 16259

          #5
          Originally posted by Josiegirl
          I think I'd discuss any foods she might be having after daycare that might be stimulating, any kind of playing or tv shows that might cause her mind to get all wired up. With some kids, the more tired they are, the more wired they are and it becomes almost impossible to calm themselves down for sleeping.
          These are just thoughts so take them as you wish but maybe eliminate the 7-7:30 play time and move her bedtime up earlier, some nice quiet snuggling, favorite calm book, maybe some soft music to set the tone. Dim the lights...that sort of thing.
          it does sound like for one hour before bed there is no screen time, food is a great question to ask.... carbs close to bed time is not a good idea.......

          Comment

          • Josiegirl
            Daycare.com Member
            • Jun 2013
            • 10834

            #6
            Hmm, how old is the sibling? Does her sibling go to bed and sleep right after the story is over?

            Comment

            • daycare
              Advanced Daycare.com *********
              • Feb 2011
              • 16259

              #7
              Originally posted by Josiegirl
              Hmm, how old is the sibling? Does her sibling go to bed and sleep right after the story is over?
              sibling is 10 and does not have any sleep issues at all....

              Comment

              • Josiegirl
                Daycare.com Member
                • Jun 2013
                • 10834

                #8
                Does she have some glow in the dark stars or something she could put on her ceiling that dcg could count? Kind of like the Counting sheep to go to sleep idea?

                I hope you can all put your heads together and come up with something that will help. I was going to say lots of kids don't need naps at that age but if she's still pulling the same trick on weekends, naps don't sound like they have much to do with her not falling asleep, as much as her stubbornness.

                Comment

                • daycare
                  Advanced Daycare.com *********
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 16259

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Josiegirl
                  Does she have some glow in the dark stars or something she could put on her ceiling that dcg could count? Kind of like the Counting sheep to go to sleep idea?

                  I hope you can all put your heads together and come up with something that will help.
                  so far i think you ladies have given me some excellent questions to ask the parents tonight. the stars sound like a good idea..

                  would you be offended if i suggested a tough love approach and said to take things away?

                  Comment

                  • Josiegirl
                    Daycare.com Member
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 10834

                    #10
                    I don't think I would take offense at something like that but not sure how it would work. Anything's worth a try, right?
                    If she's simply being stubborn it may work. If she truly cannot fall asleep for whatever reason, then it might not.

                    Comment

                    • Country Kids
                      Nature Lover
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 5051

                      #11
                      How is her behavior on Monday morning and behavior on the weekend? Without a nap she falls asleep two hours earlier (9 instead of 11). Maybe in all honesty she doesn't need a nap so when she does have one, it messes her sleep time up. I have one that is almost four and doesn't nap. Lays pretty quiete but most days doesn't nap and doesn't nap on the weekends.
                      If he does nap, it can be pretty late before he falls asleep. I do keep him because of the laying quietly during naptime.

                      What time is she picked up in the afternoon? Maybe she is fighting sleep just to spend time with mommy and daddy. If she doesn't get picked up till 5:00 or so she is really spending hardly anytime with her parents. Her naps may give her just enough sleep not to be sleep at 8:00.

                      Keep us updated!
                      Each day is a fresh start
                      Never look back on regrets
                      Live life to the fullest
                      We only get one shot at this!!

                      Comment

                      • daycare
                        Advanced Daycare.com *********
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 16259

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Country Kids
                        How is her behavior on Monday morning and behavior on the weekend? Without a nap she falls asleep two hours earlier (9 instead of 11). Maybe in all honesty she doesn't need a nap so when she does have one, it messes her sleep time up. I have one that is almost four and doesn't nap. Lays pretty quiete but most days doesn't nap and doesn't nap on the weekends.
                        If he does nap, it can be pretty late before he falls asleep. I do keep him because of the laying quietly during naptime.

                        What time is she picked up in the afternoon? Maybe she is fighting sleep just to spend time with mommy and daddy. If she doesn't get picked up till 5:00 or so she is really spending hardly anytime with her parents. Her naps may give her just enough sleep not to be sleep at 8:00.

                        Keep us updated!
                        i would agree that she may not need the nap anymore, but on days that she does not nap here she is in nice terms a monster....AND still fights bed time. She is picked up at 515pm each day.

                        Currently she is almost not making it though lunch time.... In your case the child lays down and does not fall asleep. this child lays down and falls asleep right away. Monday is the worst day and I would love to cut my ears off every monday......

                        Comment

                        • Thriftylady
                          Daycare.com Member
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 5884

                          #13
                          Originally posted by daycare
                          it does sound like for one hour before bed there is no screen time, food is a great question to ask.... carbs close to bed time is not a good idea.......
                          And food dyes. They really did affect my DD when she was young, and I keep hearing worse and worse things about them. Some people are just more sensitive than others I think. I could give my son all the dye and sugar he wanted and didn't change him a bit, DD was totally the opposite.

                          Comment

                          • daycare
                            Advanced Daycare.com *********
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 16259

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Thriftylady
                            And food dyes. They really did affect my DD when she was young, and I keep hearing worse and worse things about them. Some people are just more sensitive than others I think. I could give my son all the dye and sugar he wanted and didn't change him a bit, DD was totally the opposite.
                            another great point...


                            keep them coming in...i love you guys....i was banging my head on the wall...

                            Comment

                            • AmyLeigh
                              Daycare.com Member
                              • Oct 2011
                              • 868

                              #15
                              My question would be, what are the parents doing while the child is acting up in bed? Are they going in every couple of minutes to tell her to go to sleep or are they just letting her be in there alone?

                              Comment

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