Frustrated

[NoMoreJuice!]

I understand what you are saying about liability, but part of the problem is a person should not be compared to a dog. Male providers are competent professionals not "goofy, cuddly messes". I know you didn't mean it rudely, but I think that comments like that are part of the problem. My dh doesn't sub, but he lives here. He comes first. If parents are uncomfortable with my dh, a father of 3, from interacting with their children then we won't work out.

Back when I taught my principal never closed the door all the way when meeting with female students (middle school age). Just a sad reality of suspicion and fear The door was open for his protection not the kids!

Reading my words, I guess I can see where you think I was comparing my DH or male providers to a dog. Certainly not, just making a comparison about liability. I trust my DH implicitly, and of course I would never think twice about leaving my own children in his care. But trust has absolutely nothing to do with a business. I feel terrible for the kind, caring male providers that always have to watch their back for a suspicious parent to report them, but the fact remains that there will always be suspicious parents who are waiting for a chance to report something. It's not male providers that I don't trust...it's the parents.

[Blackcat31]

Excuse my bluntness but this subject is a hot button topic for me.

Reading my words, I guess I can see where you think I was comparing my DH or male providers to a dog. Certainly not, just making a comparison about liability. I trust my DH implicitly, and of course I would never think twice about leaving my own children in his care. But trust has absolutely nothing to do with a business. I feel terrible for the kind, caring male providers that always have to watch their back for a suspicious parent to report them, but the fact remains that there will always be suspicious parents who are waiting for a chance to report something. It's not male providers that I don't trust...it's the parents.

So then if we (general we...women in the ECE field) don't make a stand how are things ever going to change?

My DH is my sub/assistant but I DO allow my DH to change diapers, assist in the rest room and do EVERYTHING I would do because I am demonstrating to parents my trust in him.

I don't give two hoots about their stereotypical feelings as I am VERY clear about my DH's role here and if parents don't like it or won't risk it, then I am not the right program for them.

When contacted by our local college ECE program about interns working with area child cares, I specifically requested a male student. No one else did. Some providers were adamant that males don't belong in the field at all. :confused:

I CHOOSE to take a risk so that it begins to crack the stereotyping that we see in this field.

Like anything, taking action is the first step and protecting either party (clients or your male family members) under the guise of liability is a cop out in my opinion. That was not directed AT YOU but to everyone who uses the liability excuse when confronted with this subject.

Anytime this topic comes up on this board, I am saddened by the number of providers that openly admit that they themselves would never leave their child with a male caregiver.

Statistics show that male caregivers do NOT abuse (sexually, physically and/or emotionally) their charges anymore than female caregivers do. Less actually. It is just somehow more newsworthy. :confused:

[Unregistered]

I just breifed through most of this and the other similar feed
but
I have had men as subs too and I am a single mother of a girl
I believe it is very important for children to have men and woman as " healthy " role models
gay or not . married or not ex......

I also had interview with a single mother of 2 girls ...first thing she said was " I do not want my girls alone with a man "
and I could tell, she had a bad experience as a young girl herself

so yes to record checks ( both relivent feeds )
and morals and values very important in raising children
and I feel it is impoart for both genders to be in childrens lives

[DaveA]

Thanks folks. This really set me off this morning. He and I got into the field in similar ways (Moms who ran home daycares then started centers). Just annoyingly stupid.

This problem won't effect me. I've been in my area long enough that I can keep my 4-6 spots filled till it makes $$$ sense to quit and teach CPR/ First Aid & make knives full time. To me this hurts the field being taken seriously as a profession because 1/2 the population is somehow "unsafe" for the job because they pee standing up.

I have two large labradors in my home. I love them to pieces, they are big, goofy, cuddly messes. However, I would never allow them to be around the children in my care simply because the liability is not worth it. The same goes for my DH. He is the kindest, nicest guy I've ever met, and the kids love him. That being said, I would NEVER allow him to change diapers or help the kids to the bathroom, or dress/undress. I would do anything to protect him, and my business, and this is the best way to do both.

Simply because the nicest parents become BAT-POOP CRAZY when they get even a tiny hint of suspicion in their mind.

Thanks for posting, but I fundamentally disagree with the concept. Publically treating someone you love as untrustworthy under the guise of "protecting" them makes suspicion more likely, IMHO. If someone had an issue with my wife being around the kids my response would be "Deal with it or there's the door". Not only is it not the best way to protect you & your spouse but isolating a spouse from your business could be used as "evidence" something was amiss. Also, if I compared dealing with my wife as similar to my dog (for whatever reason) how long would it take before torches and pitchforks were passed out here for my head on a platter?

Someone who would file a false report will do so regardless of any "safeguards" you have in place. As for misunderstandings, familiarity and integrating your family into your daily routine is a much more proactive method of preventing problems rather than shooing them away and hoping for the best.

Thanks all.

ETA: MNJ- was doing 3 things at once so didn't see your second post till after I posted. Didn't think you were comparing DH & a dog, but the principal still is the same. The "liability" argument is basically sticking head in sand and hoping nothing bad happens. At best it's overly optimistic. More likely it's counterproductive.

[daycare]

So then if we (general we...women in the ECE field) don't make a stand how are things ever going to change?

My DH is my sub/assistant but I DO allow my DH to change diapers, assist in the rest room and do EVERYTHING I would do because I am demonstrating to parents my trust in him.

I don't give two hoots about their stereotypical feelings as I am VERY clear about my DH's role here and if parents don't like it or won't risk it, then I am not the right program for them.

When contacted by our local college ECE program about interns working with area child cares, I specifically requested a male student. No one else did. Some providers were adamant that males don't belong in the field at all. :confused:

I CHOOSE to take a risk so that it begins to crack the stereotyping that we see in this field.

Like anything, taking action is the first step and protecting either party (clients or your male family members) under the guise of liability is a cop out in my opinion. That was not directed AT YOU but to everyone who uses the liability excuse when confronted with this subject.

Anytime this topic comes up on this board, I am saddened by the number of providers that openly admit that they themselves would never leave their child with a male caregiver.

Statistics show that male caregivers do NOT abuse (sexually, physically and/or emotionally) their charges anymore than female caregivers do. Less actually. It is just somehow more newsworthy. :confused:

I used to work for a domestic violence shelter and during that time I had to take classes.

During this class I Learned that the reason the statistics show that men have a higer average than women in any form of abuse is because 75% of men who are abused by women do not report it.

It also went on to say that 85% of men who were sexually assaulted by women also went unreported.

and after working in that field for years I hands down believe it.

to me a statistic is just collected data and it's never going to reveal 100% truth if not everyone is willing to add to the data collected.

[Controlled Chaos]

So then if we (general we...women in the ECE field) don't make a stand how are things ever going to change?

My DH is my sub/assistant but I DO allow my DH to change diapers, assist in the rest room and do EVERYTHING I would do because I am demonstrating to parents my trust in him.

I don't give two hoots about their stereotypical feelings as I am VERY clear about my DH's role here and if parents don't like it or won't risk it, then I am not the right program for them.

When contacted by our local college ECE program about interns working with area child cares, I specifically requested a male student. No one else did. Some providers were adamant that males don't belong in the field at all. :confused:

I CHOOSE to take a risk so that it begins to crack the stereotyping that we see in this field.

Like anything, taking action is the first step and protecting either party (clients or your male family members) under the guise of liability is a cop out in my opinion. That was not directed AT YOU but to everyone who uses the liability excuse when confronted with this subject.

Anytime this topic comes up on this board, I am saddened by the number of providers that openly admit that they themselves would never leave their child with a male caregiver.

Statistics show that male caregivers do NOT abuse (sexually, physically and/or emotionally) their charges anymore than female caregivers do. Less actually. It is just somehow more newsworthy. :confused:

This is what I was trying to get at. Thank you. We must set the example of acceptance and gender equality in our field - especially if we expect men to do the same for us in fields women are discriminated against.

[Jack Sprat]

This also makes me absolutely insane!! I would LOVE for there to be more male teachers and child care staff. If I was to hire an assistant it would be a male.

I think it is very important to show children and some adults that men of any, race, nationality, sexual orientation etc. are perfectly able to care for, nurture and educate children.

My DH is a my emergency back up person, he is here every morning, lunch and at pick up time. All my dcks love him and I do think they love him more then me! :: He is wonderful with the dcks and it warms my heart to see the interaction that goes on between them. It makes me feel proud that my husband wants to be a part of our daycare. I make it very clear to families that he is a part of the daycare and will be here often and engage with them. None have objected and ALL have commented on how much their children love him.

Dave - keep doing what your doing and be the voice for so many who want to do childcare but, are scared because of what society has to say.

[Kabob]

So then if we (general we...women in the ECE field) don't make a stand how are things ever going to change?

My DH is my sub/assistant but I DO allow my DH to change diapers, assist in the rest room and do EVERYTHING I would do because I am demonstrating to parents my trust in him.

I don't give two hoots about their stereotypical feelings as I am VERY clear about my DH's role here and if parents don't like it or won't risk it, then I am not the right program for them.

When contacted by our local college ECE program about interns working with area child cares, I specifically requested a male student. No one else did. Some providers were adamant that males don't belong in the field at all. :confused:

I CHOOSE to take a risk so that it begins to crack the stereotyping that we see in this field.

Like anything, taking action is the first step and protecting either party (clients or your male family members) under the guise of liability is a cop out in my opinion. That was not directed AT YOU but to everyone who uses the liability excuse when confronted with this subject.

Anytime this topic comes up on this board, I am saddened by the number of providers that openly admit that they themselves would never leave their child with a male caregiver.

Statistics show that male caregivers do NOT abuse (sexually, physically and/or emotionally) their charges anymore than female caregivers do. Less actually. It is just somehow more newsworthy. :confused:

Thank you for articulating my thoughts more eloquently.

We take a risk operating a daycare no matter our gender as any minor issue can easily escalate to a parent claiming child abuse, whether to be petty or because they are paranoid.

Part of this seems to be a problem with our media and overall culture. It's not okay...

Also...my dh has been gone for the whole week due to his new job and all I hear from the daycare kids all day is "where's ds' s daddy?" ::

[NoMoreJuice!]

I do understand where you're all coming from, especially you, Dave. I feel so much sympathy towards you about this subject. Women in history have had to fight just as hard to be seen as equals in the business world, your struggle is no less important to break through perceived gender roles.

As far as sticking my head in the sand, I'm totally ok with that. Sorry, this is not my fight. My job is to keep my business open and leave as few chinks in my armor as possible when it comes to liability.

[Blackcat31]

I used to work for a domestic violence shelter and during that time I had to take classes.

During this class I Learned that the reason the statistics show that men have a higer average than women in any form of abuse is because 75% of men who are abused by women do not report it.

It also went on to say that 85% of men who were sexually assaulted by women also went unreported.

and after working in that field for years I hands down believe it.

to me a statistic is just collected data and it's never going to reveal 100% truth if not everyone is willing to add to the data collected.

That is true for domestic violence but those statistic have nothing to do with abuse of a child by the caregiver.

I think the abuse of a child by their caregiver is reported almost every single time/case.

[daycare]

That is true for domestic violence but those statistic have nothing to do with abuse of a child by the caregiver.

I think the abuse of a child by their caregiver is reported almost every single time/case.

I don't know the answer to that, I just know that men are more likely to be accused of being the abuser in any setting due to the lopsided statistics...

[DaveA]

As far as sticking my head in the sand, I'm totally ok with that. Sorry, this is not my fight. My job is to keep my business open and leave as few chinks in my armor as possible when it comes to liability.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. It is not "your fight" till it is your DH accused. Then your "safeguards" could just as easily be used against you. Keeping him out of the daycare could be construed as knowing or suspecting he wasn't trustworty, and the accusation could portray you as negligent or reckless because it "happened" despite your "precautions".

To carry the "armor" analogy further you've polished the breastplate but forgot to put on the helmet & arm/leg guards.

[NoMoreJuice!]

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. It is not "your fight" till it is your DH accused. Then your "safeguards" could just as easily be used against you. Keeping him out of the daycare could be construed as knowing or suspecting he wasn't trustworty, and the accusation could portray you as negligent or reckless because it "happened" despite your "precautions".

To carry the "armor" analogy further you've polished the breastplate but forgot to put on the helmet & arm/leg guards.

By keeping my safeguards in place, I have two employees who can testify honestly in a courtroom that he could not have been inappropriate with a child, since he doesn't change diapers or help with bathroom duties. The children are visualized by myself and my two employees at all times. I would not even lose a minute of sleep because I would have proof.

I didn't realize how offended everyone would be at my position...I see it no differently than my choice to not transport children in my car. I want to cut my risk down as low as possible, and this is just one of my strategies. My business is very important to me, it's my livelihood and my absolute favorite job I could ever imagine having. I'm sure that most parents are progressive as far as male providers go, but if there's even one parent in 500, that's too big a risk for me. I've already termed a parent who lied to me about why she left her previous provider. I found out that she falsely accused her previous provider's husband of misconduct, because her daughter started being shy around him for no reason. I termed for other reasons, but the point is that I've already met the type of person who would act on an unfounded suspicion. I hope with my whole heart that never happens to you, or any other provider or dh.

[Patches]

My Dh is the full time asst in our daycare. He DOES change diapers and help in the bathroom, as well as everything else that I do.
I once worked in a center that had a male school age teacher. One day they had him working all day to give breaks. I was in the toddler room (1 year olds) and he came in there with me to give my assistant a 1 hour break. Diaper changing time was during that hour. I started changing and told him I'll do 6, then you can do the other 6 (just like my assistant and I always did). He told me no. That he wasn't allowed. I laughed because I thought he was kidding. He wasn't. Turns out, this center had a policy against make staff members changing diapers. An actual policy! I was soooo mad! I even caked the corporate office because I thought it was ridiculous and sexist and just plain stupid, honestly. I'll never understand why people in this industry continue to reinforce this stereotype.

[Ariana]

I used to work for a domestic violence shelter and during that time I had to take classes.

During this class I Learned that the reason the statistics show that men have a higer average than women in any form of abuse is because 75% of men who are abused by women do not report it.

It also went on to say that 85% of men who were sexually assaulted by women also went unreported.

and after working in that field for years I hands down believe it.

to me a statistic is just collected data and it's never going to reveal 100% truth if not everyone is willing to add to the data collected.

You are not interpreting these statistics properly. Just because 75% and 85% of men who are abused or sexually assaulted by women do not report does not mean that they outnumber women's abuse statistically. If 10 men were sexually assaulted last year and 85% of that 10 didn't report, it is still a very low number compared to women, especially given that many women also do not report. Whoever taught that class was being very irresponsible IMO if this is the impression you left with. You don't need to throw women under the bus in order to speak up for men. All victims deserve justice.

I think guys get a tough break for sure and I wish there were more men but women have enough hurdles to deal with in the workforce. My DH takes care of the kids sometimes and upon express consent of parents. It ****s that men get a bad rap but there's not much I can do to change it when most predators are male and most predators choose professions where they come in contact with kids.