Its All About The Money.... (Just My Opinion)

[Blackcat31]

I am available for a variety of shifts, but I only have daytimers right now. I am available outside normal hours, if the child/family fits. I have no regular overnighters, but I have done that. I do not work weekends now, but I have in the past.

If the point is that extended hours are necessary to operating in this fashion, perhaps, but there is also the "on work" "off work" concept that a lot of providers have (and that is perfectly ok.) I don't have that. I am here. Kids coming and going in my house is something that has been perfectly natural since I was quite young. Getting paid to have some of them here...bonus!
If a child is here during a meal time, they eat. If one is here at bedtime, they sleep.
I understand that a lot of providers don't work this way or feel this way, and that is fine. I just take a little bit of exception to the idea that it CANNOT work or absolutely will cause burnout. How I operate is not a problem for me, and provides a niche of care that virtually no one around me will do. It keeps me full and gives me lots of little grandbabies to love on and then send home.
Not saying it is easy or that everyone should operate this way. Just that it is not impossible to do so long term.

Yes, that was "kind of" my point...

Limiting the hours/days you are willing to provide care kind of forces you (general you) to have to have a bare minimum of income to survive.

My ability to earn the income I need to survive financially is limited to a specific 10 hours per day.

If I had "more" hours available in which to earn my required income, it would be easier for me to not require that all parents pay a minimum amount each week.

[butterfly]

Ok, so I'm gonna tear the lid off of Pandora's box here and duck for cover later..

If I owned a retail store and sold... oh I dunno.. let's say dog whistles. On one errant Tuesday, no one came in to buy a whistle... I don't make any money. That's the way a business works.
I have this regular customer at my whistle store who comes in every morning and buys a whistle. He has done this for months. If he doesn't come in on an errant Tuesday. I don't send him a bill for a whistle he didn't buy cause he wasn't in my store... and if I did bill him for 5 whistles a week and he only got 4 cause he couldn't make it in.. well that just doesn't make sense to me, and he'd prolly go buy his whistles somewhere else. If I'm sick and don't open my store, I didn't sell any whistles, and made no money. If I'm on vacation.. same problem.

I look at my daycare as a business. Parents bring their kids, and I care for them for money. If 3 kids are here on Tuesday, I get handed cash 3 times that day. (ok, payable at weeks end, but still). If no kids are here on Tuesday, I didn't work Tuesday, and made no money Tuesday.

My reason for this little rant is because of the number of providers I've talked to and read posts about that are upset cause parents have the day off and still send the kids. The reason for this is because they are charged for it anyways, so they are gonna use it. (already paid for the whistle.. I'm gonna go get it)

Now I agree it's sad for the kids to not have time they could have with mom and dad, and it can also be classified as bad parenting, but it is truly all about the money. A lot of parents work 50-60 hours a week and the day off they get .. well they might wanna just kick back and watch tv or something. Sending the kids to daycare doesn't cost them anything extra because they are billed for all 5 days anyway so why not?

Now as a daycare provider, I can understand that having a few less kids now and again is kinda cool.. and maybe having no kids on an errant Tuesday would be great as I could put my feet up and sip coffee with a newspaper all day and enjoy myself. It's actually happened. However with no kids here I didn't work. Because I didn't work I didn't make any money. I'm not gonna charge mom 30+ dollars to watch her child when in fact I didn't do it that day.

So I know I'm prolly going to get a ton of responses to this, some prolly rather angry.. but if you want mom and dad to keep the kids home on their days off, well it comes down to the cash. If they can save money by not bringing them, they will. If as a business owner you want to get paid for a day that you didn't watch any kids, or sell any whistles, well, I am truly sorry but more often than not it just isn't gonna happen.

It'll be interesting to see how you feel about this after you've been open a few years.

[Kabob]

Just a thought.......

If I don't watch TV for a month, never switch on the cable box once, it would be nice if I had no bill that month.

If I didn't drive my car for a month, it would be great if I had no insurance bill for the month. I wasn't out driving, so I am creating no risk for the insurance company.

If I did not place or receive any calls on my land line......you get the picture.

I get your point Mr. Sir. I just wish all services were billed on a "usage" basis. Unfortunately, our economy is primarily service based. Child care is a service, not a retail store.

Sure, if I don't drive my car, I don't have to buy gas. Gas is a consumable/retail product, the insurance is not. So if I wish to own my car and have it registered, I have to pay my insurance bill.
,.
Even energy is a consumable product, based on usage. If I choose to use little or no power, my bill goes down. But if I didn't charge parents for the spot, instead charged purely on attendance, my power bill doesn't go down because two or three kids aren't there......I'm still running the AC all day. And the bill is still due. KWIM?

Yep. This basically covers my thoughts. I tried to be the nice provider when I started last year and I got burned. I even offered free sick days to encourage the parents to keep their kids home when they were sick and yet they still sent them here sick... once they even sent a child here right after surgery! I don't mind them sending their kids here if they have a day off...as long as they pay. My fees are based on a minimum amount that goes up with the amount of days/hours scheduled per day. So that encourages parents to keep their kids home on days off and also puts enough money in my pocket to make a profit. If they still choose to send them here on their day off then I get more money. But I try my hardest to enroll parents that want to spend time with their kids...either way, yes it is about the money. I make more if they send them more and if they keep them home, I still make a set amount to hold the slot.

[Angelsj]

Yes, that was "kind of" my point...

Limiting the hours/days you are willing to provide care kind of forces you (general you) to have to have a bare minimum of income to survive.

My ability to earn the income I need to survive financially is limited to a specific 10 hours per day.

If I had "more" hours available in which to earn my required income, it would be easier for me to not require that all parents pay a minimum amount each week.

Fair point. And I am sure you do fine, but there are a lot of problems I hear on here that are just not in my realm of issues. Maybe because I don't see them as problems, or maybe because my parents are awesome, but either way, it suits me. I might be more picky if I had to fit into a certain number of hours. Right now, though, I do pretty well and I am actually only working 7-4 most days. It is kind of nice

[Blackcat31]

Fair point. And I am sure you do fine, but there are a lot of problems I hear on here that are just not in my realm of issues. Maybe because I don't see them as problems, or maybe because my parents are awesome, but either way, it suits me. I might be more picky if I had to fit into a certain number of hours. Right now, though, I do pretty well and I am actually only working 7-4 most days. It is kind of nice

Oh I hear you!

I can't say I wouldn't do it the way you do if my circumstances were different and I was in no way trying to minimize the fact that you do offer non-standard care hours.

I was just trying to make a separation of the arguments at hand....

I personally do not care if parents keep their kids if they have the day off or not. I "used" to care.

I also agree that there are many common issues posted about that I just don't experience but can only take a shot in the dark as to why I don't have those issues. kwim?

I guess it's all in the "fit" of the family + provider and sometimes, it is a match made in heaven and other times not-so-much.

Again, is it the "golden" parents I have or the "iron-clad" policies I have (: or is it just luck? Who knows...

I just know the debate between charging for only when a child is present will be an on-going debate forever and one without resolution other than finding a provider (or in our case, clients) that agree to the rules and policies you have.

I've done it all ways. I've charged 52 week year regardless, I've charged only for actual days/time used and I've given and taken free/vacation days.

Currently I am in the middle. I am trying out the 'closed-no charge'/'open-charged' concept. So far it's working because the group of parents I have are nothing like the group of parents I had years ago when I tried other methods.

For me, it's about meeting the current needs of clients. Like everything, they change with the tides.

[Country Kids]

This is a topic that has been debated since my first time on an internet daycare board in 98.

I have seen thousands of these threads and they all are the same end game.

I know you intended to discuss parents bringing kids on their time off when they are paying a full slot but the concept of only charging for attendance is what I'm interested in.

I don't know of any provider who has charged by attendance and is a veteran provider.

Are there any providers here who have made a career of charging a daily rate by attendance only? Or an hourly rate by attendance only?

I have seen thousands try it and either go out of business or switch but I haven't heard of anyone who has made it to the five or ten year mark. Maybe if they have a spouse paying the family's way.. but if they need income they would have a terrible time. Also, having kids who are very part time sporadically would be a nightmare job.

A lot of providers start doing daycare as the daycare they would have liked to have had as a parent accessing daycare. That works for the loving stuff but not the money stuff. Once they start allowing unpaid days and rotating schedules, they go broke. Once they allow "mildly ill" kids they go broke.

I pray you aren't considering that unless it's just to make SOME money. Being new to daycare it will be tough to manage the occasional kids.

Nan, I have been doing this 17 years (just started my 17th year) and the first 14 I was paid an hourly wage. No time off except major holidays and 5 sick days, all upaid.

Year 15, I went to charging a daily rate, still only off for major holidays and 5 sick days but did add in a week vacation but didn't take it, all time unpaid.

Year 16, I went to charging a monthly rate depending on how many days they attended-3-5 days a week. I take all major holidays off, 5 sick days and 1 week vacation unpaid. So I'm really only being paid for 48 weeks a year.

At one time I actually was making more money charging hourly then my husband who worked for our state. Charging a flat monthly rate actually caused me to lose money.

[Blackcat31]

Nan, I have been doing this 17 years (just started my 17th year) and the first 14 I was paid an hourly wage. No time off except major holidays and 5 sick days, all upaid.

Year 15, I went to charging a daily rate, still only off for major holidays and 5 sick days but did add in a week vacation but didn't take it, all time unpaid.

Year 16, I went to charging a monthly rate depending on how many days they attended-3-5 days a week. I take all major holidays off, 5 sick days and 1 week vacation unpaid. So I'm really only being paid for 48 weeks a year.

At one time I actually was making more money charging hourly then my husband who worked for our state. Charging a flat monthly rate actually caused me to lose money.

But do you charge the parents (or refund/credit) them for days when their child is not attending?

If they pay you monthly based on 3 days per week and then the child missed 4 scheduled days that month, do they get a refund for those days?

[Country Kids]

But do you charge the parents (or refund/credit) them for days when their child is not attending?

If they pay you monthly based on 3 days per week and then the child missed 4 scheduled days that month, do they get a refund for those days?

No, I don't give refunds but I didn't do that hourly either. Even when I charged hourly I charged whether they were here or not.

I also charge after care/not before. I charge at the end of month and need to be paid within the first week.

[Angelsj]

For me, it's about meeting the current needs of clients. Like everything, they change with the tides.

I definitely agree here. For me, the parents say, "This is what I need."
I have to figure out (among many other things) if that is something I can offer or if I have a compromise that might work.
I also don't know if it is the "golden parents" or my rules (I do have rules btw ) but I do know it is working for me, as yours is for you, and that is the best we can hope for.

I also think it helps a ton to know what you really want and can do. I don't say yes to anything that is going to make me crazy. <---- that smilie says crazy to me..

[TwinKristi]

I can see why someone else may operate this way, but I chose to operate my business in a contracted basis. I sell my time along with my service. If you purchase a time slot for my service, you pay for that regardless of whether or not you use it. It's yours to be used whenever you need it because we entered into a contract saying so. If I was a drop-in service then they pay as it's used, no more no less, but I can't promise you a spot on a regular basis. Some people need a spot M-F and some people don't. I have a family who uses 4 days on a regulars basis but sometimes only come 2-3 days. That's their choice. They would probably have paid more for the drop in slot than they've paid for their consisting 4 days and not used some. I charge a daily rate for 4-5 days and a rate for 2-3 days and one for drop-in. The drop-in rate is $15/day higher than the 4-5 day slot. So if they have missed maybe 2 days a month for 6mos on average that's still a savings. Parents just don't like paying for something they're not using but tough! You are using my time because I'm still here working and you're not here to receive the service I've been contracted to provide.
I don't have too many problems with people bringing their child and not working and if I had any issues I would deal with it then. I have had parents pay for plenty of days they didn't use so that isn't a big problem here.

[Cat Herder]

I am not sure what you are saying here?
I still have my slots full enough to pay my bills. I am never empty. I have excellent parents who are incredibly loyal and do everything under the sun to get my infant spot. Most kids stay with me until they age out to K or longer. I NEVER advertise. 90% of the "problems" I see here with parents, drop offs, sick kids, dope and drop, etc, I do not have...ever.
How exactly is this not working smart?

:confused: I was responding (ok, teasing him a bit since he seems to be able to take it) to OPs assertion that this was somehow a new concept with an original oppositional viewpoint. We have been debating it for years... I am on team "Work smarter not Harder". (Go blue!!)

Sorry if you thought I was referring to you. I actually had not even read your post.

Your gig, your choice. :hug:

[Angelsj]

:confused: I was responding (ok, teasing him a bit since he seems to be able to take it) to OPs assertion that this was somehow a new concept with an original oppositional viewpoint. We have been debating it for years... I am on team "Work smarter not Harder". (Go blue!!)

Sorry if you thought I was referring to you.

Your gig, your choice. :hug:

I see what you are saying, but I still don't believe any one way is "smarter" than the other. You get what you want out of your way of doing things, and you (general you) have a set of problems that comes with that.
I get what I want out of my way and have a set of issues that come with that as well. I don't see either one as smarter or harder than the other. Just different.

:hug: to you too

[daycarediva]

I do understand where you're coming from, OP. With that said, you may change your mind/policy when you've got a few years of experience. I did, on many things and am one of the only area providers who charge based on contract, contracted hours, higher rate for part time. I'm also full, and most struggle for enrollment.

Parents can chose to do what works for them, be it me or elsewhere.

I do get saddened when the SAHM of the child enrolled FT doesn't value time with her child. I don't think these types of parents are deterred by the fact that they have to pay for this care, even when offered free days, they would rather pay/have child attend. If the child wasn't here, they would be in care elsewhere. I can't CHANGE those parents.

My cousin is a personal trainer, and just opened her own gym. She LOVES it when you don't show up for her 5am training session, this is also a tool she uses to get her clients to show up! I get paid regardless, so be fat AND broke. Your choice. Yes, she has a saying similar to that on her contract, too. ::

I have a client who is FT, pays FT and doesn't attend FT(1x every few months is a full week). (4 days) They have options, they chose me. They can go elsewhere and pay FT for less. They can go elsewhere and pay PT for less.

I have a client who pays for FT every week and doesn't attend one week a month. (visitation).

THIS is what I am willing to provide THIS space for. Take it or leave it.

and...of course it's about the money. What business isn't? I'm always surprised when people say this regarding child care.

[awilliams123]

I totally agree with what you've said here. I have a little boy who has been with me over 2 years and I kid you not, he has never missed a day since he started, unless it was a day I was closed. Whenever his mother has a day off she still brings him. I don't have a problem with her bringing him all five days because she's paid for that right, but not only has this child never missed a day, but he is the first one to arrive each morning and the last one to be picked up each evening. He's with me 11.5 hours a day, five days per week. With the hours she works you'd think every once in awhile when she has a day off she'd want to spend some time with her son. But instead she spends it with her boyfriend. Even on her days off he's still the first one to arrive and the last one to leave. She's not just paying for child care for her son when she's working, it's also a way for her to get rid of him. It hurts me because I can see how much it bother's him. Her child should mean more to her than he money she spends each week on his care. I understand sometimes parents need a break from their kids, but it would mean so much to him if every once in a while he could spend the day home with mom like all the other kids.

[nannyde]

I totally agree with what you've said here. I have a little boy who has been with me over 2 years and I kid you not, he has never missed a day since he started, unless it was a day I was closed. Whenever his mother has a day off she still brings him. I don't have a problem with her bringing him all five days because she's paid for that right, but not only has this child never missed a day, but he is the first one to arrive each morning and the last one to be picked up each evening. He's with me 11.5 hours a day, five days per week. With the hours she works you'd think every once in awhile when she has a day off she'd want to spend some time with her son. But instead she spends it with her boyfriend. Even on her days off he's still the first one to arrive and the last one to leave. She's not just paying for child care for her son when she's working, it's also a way for her to get rid of him. It hurts me because I can see how much it bother's him. Her child should mean more to her than he money she spends each week on his care. I understand sometimes parents need a break from their kids, but it would mean so much to him if every once in a while he could spend the day home with mom like all the other kids.

Are you charging a high rate for the very long hours?