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Wondering if mom every brought it up to you.
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Sorry I didn't follow up....having a bad week I think. DancingQueen: mom never said a word!!! Wonder if dad is making stuff up?
Some days I just feel like I am always walking on eggshells with the parents. All of the kids really are great but the parents don't back me up, are disrespectful, want something for nothing, and just really are rude. How did I get so lucky?Comment
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They're mad at you cuz you're telling them something negative (though true!) that their precious child did.
I would have let them know that "we're working on the spitting issue" and see if they proceed with "what? what's going on?", etc...
If they don't respond to that, then, I would just take care of little Johnny and continue to teach him what is and is not approrpiate table manners. Just like you've been doing.
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If you would have told them that there was an incident at lunch today where one of the other older kids misbehaved at the table, spit his food out, caused a scene where you had to take your attention off of their son and put it solely on the other child, that their child was sickened by the child's behavior and was upset because you couldn't be involved in his peaceful meal.. but you handled it by removing the misbehaving kid, talked sternly to the kid, put the kid to bed for a nap and then returned to their son and made sure that he had EVERYTHING he needed food wise and attention wise they would have been VERY happy and would ONLY be concerned that this child in their sons day care could possibly do that in the future around their child.
They would have been happy that you put a stop to it and wouldn't have a care or even a THOUGHT about whether or not that kid was hungry after leaving the table and had to go to bed before their son and before nap. It wouldn't have crossed their minds to be concerned about your exact actions as long as THEIR child wasn't the child being removed from the meal and put to bed.
When you tell parents ANY kind of dicipline they are doing the math very quickly on how that affected THEIR kid. Most will not be concerned about their child's actions towards the other children or if they have taken your attention from your work and supervision of the other kids.
Very often you have to phrase it in a way that gets them onto the path of realizing that there ARE other peoples happiness to consider... which first and foremost is YOUR happiness. NOBODY is going to be happy if you aren't happy.
You have to make sure you explain it in a way that they can begin to think about how their child is affecting the other kids and you. I would have explained it like this:
"When we were eating lunch today little Johnyy spit his food out from his mouth, talking loudly, and disrupting everyones peaceful yummy meal. The other kids were upset and I wasn't able to get him to stop upsetting the children at the table. They were all very hungry and were really looking forward to our meal. His behavior not only upset them but my removing him from the table took me away from being able to stay with them ALL of the meal as I always do.
They did settle down after I removed him and put him to bed. They all ate a really good lunch and joined him afterwards for their nap.
You need to talk to him about how important it is to make sure the other children are able to have lunch in peace. Their mealtime is VERY important to them and to their parents. Mealtime is also very important to me. I look forward to this time of day when I can have the kids doing a group activity and get things cleaned up in the kitchen while they are eating. In order for all of us to have a peaceful and enjoyable mealtime he MUST behave litke a gentleman and NOT take away from what I am doing and the children eating. We will be working on this in the future and will continue the plan of immediately removing him and having him go off to bed if he can't remain at the table and behave.
He doesn't have to eat our food. He doesn't have to have lunch with the behaving eating kids but he DOES have to either sit with them or go for an early nap. Either one of these is fine with me."
Every thing they bring up needs to be framed within the context of how it affects you and the other kids. He is in GROUP care so he must have group behavior.
When they say that they are concerned about him not getting enough to eat the answer is "yes I was concerned about ALL of the kids being upset and not eating... thankfully they did resume eating despite his upsetting behavior."
When they say they are upset that he had to go to bed the answer is "yes the other children joined him at the normal nap time. If he wants to join them tomorrow with the meal and normal nap time he can't have this behavior at the table. It's too upsetting to them and takes my attention off of them"
This is the ONLY approach that I have found that starts to get them to think about the OTHER children. They need to see you be an advocate for your happiness and the well being of ALL of the kids.Comment
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Gets who to start thinking of others? the parents? or the kid?
I think the op said the child was 4. Imho I do not believe 4 year olds are capable of understanding another persons perspective completely. 4 year olds are still in the preoperational stage of thinking. He has a limited ability to think logically. Preoperational thinkers are very egocentric. They tend to focus only on what they need or want. Perspective thinking is a cognitive skill that not many 4 year olds have. The preoperational stage usually lasts from 2-7 years. I do agree that he needs to start thinking about others but he may not have the ability to do so since it is a developmental skill. It takes several years to develop and master perspective thinking. Heck, I know adults who haven't mastered this skill yet. LOL!Comment
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The parents.
Thanks for the lesson on preoperational thinkers though
I heard about that in my four years of college, 31 years of caring for and researching growth and development, and hundreds of hours of child care training.
The four year old is a preoperational thinker. The parents can't be preoperatinal thinkers. When the parents show you that they are preoperational thinkers you have to talk to them and explain things to them to get them OUT of preoperational thinking. The parents MUST consider the provider and the other children when discussing their child's behavior. It's the MOST important attribute when having your child in a GROUP of kids.
These parents were upset because their child might have been hungry and was put to bed early. They should have been concerened about the other childrens meal time and that this child's behavior took the providers attention away from the other childrens meal. Their child missing a meal is NOT a problem. The other children suffering or being inconvienienced and the provider having to do the work of disciplining him for this behavior IS the problem.Comment
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marstelac-
I couldn't believe it when I read that the dad was mad at you for handling the spitter the way you did. I think that you were right on your mark by separating him right away. I wonder, has he spat again? I am guessing not.
I have to say that I agree with nannyd in the sense that the father probably would have been outraged-OUTRAGED I SAY- by this disgusting behavior if it had been someone else's child::! HE probably wouldn't have said a single contrary word about how you chose to handle the situation if he had witnessed it ....if it was some one else's child.....might have even said something along the lines of "my lil guy would NEVER do that!!!"
Sometimes it can be hard for parents to realize that their children don't have perfect behavior 24/7....and that is ok...these lil guys are just learning limits. How would he know that spitting at the table is wrong unless he did it or watched someone else do it. Marstelac- the nice part about the way you handled the spitter is that the other lil guys at the table also got to see what happens at your house if when food gets spat out! Good for you.
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Ok I really hate to be the bad guy here but this is my opinion:
Yes you did the right thing by removing him immediately. However I believe it was wrong to place him right to nap. Besides it is against TX Minimum Standards to punish a child regarding with food and naps.
Please don't me wrong. I totally agree with his being separated as well as punished. Spitting is totally wrong more so for a 4 year old. I think the dad was right to be upset (if he wasn't acting). I would be too. I just don't think putting the child down for a nap as a consequence was the right thing for him.
What I would have done is just removed him from the table, put in timeout (which I RARELY use), and then tell him until he can eat like a big boy he will be separated from his friends everyday.Comment
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