Kansas Group License

[craftymissbeth]

Just last weekend I renewed my license online, but instead of just renewing I applied for a new license so that I can switch from a family daycare to a group.

My licensor just called to set up the appointment for my new license survey (even though I just had my renewal visit a couple of weeks ago). She said that from now on whoever I have as my helper must be present at all times. I told her no, that I only have 3 dck's so I fall under the 1 provider ratio table.

She insisted that that's how it is with group licenses that there must always be two providers. I think she's wrong.

I ended up asking her to please verify that information and get back to me... and that if it ends up that I do have to have a second provider here then I'm going to simply shut down. I only have 3 dck's and after the craziness of my last two DCP's I'm not looking to add anymore. Therefore, I cannot afford to hire a second full time provider. I've already paid the state fees for my new license and if I end up canceling that and renewing the license I have then I have to pay it again.

After all the crap I've been through lately I'm ready to just give up.

[craftymissbeth]

Just to add: the only reason I applied as a group is so that I COULD expand in the future if I choose to... if I do it in the middle of the year then I'll have to pay the fees twice so this was just the perfect time to do it.

[jenn]

I can't tell you 100% for sure, but can explain what I was told.

A couple of years ago, I had a family contact me about returning. They were a wonderful family that had moved out of the area and had returned. I wanted to take them, but it would have put me over ratio 2 days per week.

I talked to my licensor about how I could legally do this.

My thinking was that my mom (who has taken all classes to be a provider, not just a sub) could be here on the days that I was over ratio. I would then be within ratio as I would have 2 providers here on those days.

My licensor said that that was not how it works. If I was going to move to a 2 provider facility or a group daycare setting, that was full time. I would have to have my mom here every minute that I was open. It did not matter how many kids were here. If I was licensed as a group or 2 provider facility, I would have to maintain that at all times, even if the amount of kids present was acceptable for 1 provider.

[Annalee]

I can't tell you 100% for sure, but can explain what I was told.

A couple of years ago, I had a family contact me about returning. They were a wonderful family that had moved out of the area and had returned. I wanted to take them, but it would have put me over ratio 2 days per week.

I talked to my licensor about how I could legally do this.

My thinking was that my mom (who has taken all classes to be a provider, not just a sub) could be here on the days that I was over ratio. I would then be within ratio as I would have 2 providers here on those days.

My licensor said that that was not how it works. If I was going to move to a 2 provider facility or a group daycare setting, that was full time. I would have to have my mom here every minute that I was open. It did not matter how many kids were here. If I was licensed as a group or 2 provider facility, I would have to maintain that at all times, even if the amount of kids present was acceptable for 1 provider.

That is a bummer! I am Group in Tennessee but when my numbers are low on certain days, Family rules apply!

[craftymissbeth]

I can't tell you 100% for sure, but can explain what I was told.

A couple of years ago, I had a family contact me about returning. They were a wonderful family that had moved out of the area and had returned. I wanted to take them, but it would have put me over ratio 2 days per week.

I talked to my licensor about how I could legally do this.

My thinking was that my mom (who has taken all classes to be a provider, not just a sub) could be here on the days that I was over ratio. I would then be within ratio as I would have 2 providers here on those days.

My licensor said that that was not how it works. If I was going to move to a 2 provider facility or a group daycare setting, that was full time. I would have to have my mom here every minute that I was open. It did not matter how many kids were here. If I was licensed as a group or 2 provider facility, I would have to maintain that at all times, even if the amount of kids present was acceptable for 1 provider.

See, that's basically what she's telling me, but the regs aren't written that way. Why would there be a separate table in the regs for a group license for 1 provider present?

Also, I asked on two separate occasions (once last year at my initial inspection and again a couple weeks ago) about what I needed to change in my program to be in line with a group license and both times I was told that I simply needed to post my diapering procedures :confused:

[craftymissbeth]

And under the table for the group ratios it says

*A second provider shall be present when the number of children exceeds the maximum number allowed for one provider. See Table I.

To me, this means we do have the option of operating with only one provider as long as we are within ratio.

ETA: Table I refers to the regular family daycare license.

[Blackcat31]

I am licensed as a Large Group provider (there are 8 different licensing categories here) and I can operate on ANY lower level license capacity I want but must meet the ratio requirements for whatever level I am operating on for THAT DAY.

Hope that makes sense.

I "think" it is exactly what you are trying to do.... I keep the larger license because it's easier to just have it when I need it verses being limited to only have one particular age group.

I don't always need my assistant/helper present. ONLY if I have a particular age group of kids.

[craftymissbeth]

I am licensed as a Large Group provider (there are 8 different licensing categories here) and I can operate on ANY lower level license capacity I want but must meet the ratio requirements for whatever level I am operating on for THAT DAY.

Hope that makes sense.

I "think" it is exactly what you are trying to do.... I keep the larger license because it's easier to just have it when I need it verses being limited to only have one particular age group.

I don't always need my assistant/helper present. ONLY if I have a particular age group of kids.

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. Here are our regs:

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/lic_group_daycare/Day_Care_homes_and_Group_Day_Care_all_sections.pdf

On page 42 is where I found the quote in my previous post above. Nowhere in the definition of a "group" license does it say that 2 providers must always be present.

[Annalee]

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. Here are our regs:

http://www.kdheks.gov/bcclr/regs/lic_group_daycare/Day_Care_homes_and_Group_Day_Care_all_sections.pdf

On page 42 is where I found the quote in my previous post above. Nowhere in the definition of a "group" license does it say that 2 providers must always be present.

You present that to your licensing person! Go Girl!

[Blackcat31]

Yes.... to me this:

*A second provider shall be present when the number of children exceeds the maximum number allowed for one provider

means EXACLTY that. WHEN.

Not at ALL times...WHEN.



when [hwen, wen; unstressed hwuhn, wuhn] Show IPA
adverb
1.at what time or period? how long ago? how soon?: When are they to arrive? When did the Roman Empire exist?

2.under what circumstances? upon what occasion?: When is a letter of condolence in order? When did you ever see such a crowd?

conjunction
3. at what time: to know when to be silent.

4. at the time or in the event that: when we were young; when the noise stops.

5. at any time; whenever: He is impatient when he is kept waiting.

6. upon or after which; and then: We had just fallen asleep when the bell rang.

7. while on the contrary; considering that; whereas: Why are you here when you should be in school?

pronoun
8. what time: Till when is the store open?

9. which time: They left on Monday, since when we have heard nothing.

noun
10. the time of anything: the when and the where of an act.


Yep, I think your licensing agent is misinterpreting the word "WHEN".

[craftymissbeth]

I've been waiting for two hours for her to call me back. Guess she's still searching for verification that she's right

[Blackcat31]

I've been waiting for two hours for her to call me back. Guess she's still searching for verification that she's right

I'm thinking she only needs to consult Webster's... kwim? ::

[Annalee]

I've been waiting for two hours for her to call me back. Guess she's still searching for verification that she's right

I am happy for you that you know the ropes. Professionally stand your ground. there are so many providers in my state that just do what is told them and live in fear....I refuse to do that....I am nice but many times feel like getting a shirt or sign that says "Don't Mess With Me!"....::::::

[craftymissbeth]

I'm thinking she only needs to consult Webster's... kwim? ::

Yes, she does!

I am happy for you that you know the ropes. Professionally stand your ground. there are so many providers in my state that just do what is told them and live in fear....I refuse to do that....I am nice but many times feel like getting a shirt or sign that says "Don't Mess With Me!"....::::::

I definitely don't know what I'm doing :: I'm only a year into this crazy business, but I don't usually have any issue standing up for myself

[Blackcat31]

I am happy for you that you know the ropes. Professionally stand your ground. there are so many providers in my state that just do what is told them and live in fear....I refuse to do that....I am nice but many times feel like getting a shirt or sign that says "Don't Mess With Me!"....::::::