Don't Even Know What To Title This, Maybe Weird?

[taylorw1210]

I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.

I agree.

[Heidi]

I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.

I do believe she's bent on raising a sociopath!

[daycare]

I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.

bingo..... It is so annoying and just driving me crazy. I don't know what I could possibly do to get it to stop here at my home. Like I said before, I know that I can't do anything about it at home, but I will do something about it here. Again this morning, DCK is getting dropped off and the DCM tells him to take off his shoes and jacket. something else is said that I did not hear and the DCK says to the DCM "DOn't say those words to me, I don't like it when you talk to me like that" I was so annoyed that I just walked away.

This family is my first drop off and I am starting my day out annoyed. Normally I can just walk away and LET IT GO (hate that song) but it's driving me NUTS........

[Laurel]

The only thing I can come up with for the mom is to tell her that you can't allow episodes like the bookcase anymore SO from now on you would like her to say her goodbyes and give hugs BEFORE they knock on your door in the morning. Either that or the moment it starts walk away while saying to mom "When you two get this settled, let me know. I'll be in the next room."

Laurel

[Heidi]

The only thing I can come up with for the mom is to tell her that you can't allow episodes like the bookcase anymore SO from now on you would like her to say her goodbyes and give hugs BEFORE they knock on your door in the morning. Either that or the moment it starts walk away while saying to mom "When you two get this settled, let me know. I'll be in the next room."



Laurel

I would also not tolerate disrespect towards you. If he sasses you in front of her, I would tell him right in front of her that talking to you like that is NOT okay at your school. He may go sit down in the kitchen (or another designated spot) and come out when he is ready to be respectful.

Honestly, if you haven't already talked to mom about this outside of dcb's earshot, it may be time for a phone call. She can raise her child any way she pleases, but you will NOT tolerate being treated disrespectfully by a 5 year old. If that's a problem for her, she needs to find another school.

I was thinking about a way you could handle dcb himself. Every single time he comes to you with a complaint, say the same exact words to him, blank expression. Like "ok, thanks for letting me know" or "I hear you" or something. No expression, no reaction, just a mantra. You could even go with "that must be terrible for you". Maybe he'll get bored with telling you every feeling. When and if he has a legitimate gripe, like he falls and skins him knee, THEN give him some lovin', of course. Also, catch him "being good" and thanking him for helping with small tasks will give him more positive reinforcement. WDYT?

[melilley]

I don't think DCM actually believes him, she's more or less just validating his feelings and going along with it. I hardly think she'd be so calm in her response had she believed that her son was covered in bugs. It's the fact that she is catering to his need for attention from mom that has so many people bothered.

And as long as dcm caters to dcb, the longer dcb is going to act this way. He's not dumb, he knows!

[daycare]

thanks for the tips. he is the little boy who cried "wolf" ( hope I got that right)

I will use the same mantra every time taking any attention or value away from it. I think that I will email the mother and let her know that she needs to just drop and go or handle things outside. I could go on and on about the nuts things that this mom does, they are just sooooooooo weird. I don't even know how to explain it.

I will be sure to talk to my staff too and make sure that they also give the same response. I hope this works, if it does not, by next month I am going to have to term. I just dont want to deal with this all summer long.

[Heidi]

thanks for the tips. he is the little boy who cried "wolf" ( hope I got that right)

I will use the same mantra every time taking any attention or value away from it. I think that I will email the mother and let her know that she needs to just drop and go or handle things outside. I could go on and on about the nuts things that this mom does, they are just sooooooooo weird. I don't even know how to explain it.

I will be sure to talk to my staff too and make sure that they also give the same response. I hope this works, if it does not, by next month I am going to have to term. I just dont want to deal with this all summer long.

My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.

It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.

[daycare]

My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.

It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.

so what mantra should I use with the DCM when she feeds into it?

ok thanks your driving me NUTS?? jk

[AmyLeigh]

http://www.innerbonding.com/show-art...-feelings.html

Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)

VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.

I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.

Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.

All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.

Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”

However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.

The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control. When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.

If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael. Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.

[Heidi]

Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)

VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.

I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.

Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.

All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.

Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”

However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.

The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control. When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.

If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael. Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.

Awesome!

I just had a conversation with a dcm today about how dear dcg is starting to manipulate (or trying to) everyone else with her feelings. She's 16 months old, and already tries.

[daycare]

Ack sorry, I didn't realize that link wouldn't work. It's about people who go overboard in wanting to validate their children's feelings and begin to indulge them. It sounds like that is what DCM is doing. Here is the copy: (Bolded points are mine)

VALIDATING VS. INDULGING CHILDREN’S FEELINGS
Margaret Paul, Ph.D.

I grew up at a time when children’s feelings were not important. I was supposed to go along with the program without complaint, regardless of how I felt. If I was upset about something, my mother generally responded with, “Don’t be ridiculous,” while my father just ignored me. Many of my counseling clients had similar experiences in their growing-up years.

Those of us on a personal growth path don’t want to do the same thing to our children. We want our children to feel safe in expressing their feelings. We want them to know that what they feel matters to us, that their feelings are important to us. The problem is that sometimes children use their feelings to manipulate their parents, and parents sometimes get confused between validating their children’s authentic feelings and indulging the feelings intended to manipulate.

All feelings are not created equal. As parents, we need to learn to discern the difference in intent regarding our children’s expression of feelings. Authentic feelings are generated by life experiences, such as the loss of a pet, difficulties with friends, problems with learning, and so on. These feelings need to be attended to with caring and compassion. Manipulative feelings are generated by thoughts such as, “I want attention,” “I want new clothes,” or “I have a right to have whatever I want.” The expression of these feelings need to be ignored, or the child needs to be told that we don’t like the complaining, so that we are not indulging our children in using their feelings to manipulate.

Joanne is struggling with her 6 year old daughter, Rachael, regarding this issue of feelings. “I don’t want to squash her feelings the way mine were squashed.” However, Rachael has learned to use her feelings to control Joanne. For example, Rachael often cries bitterly in the mornings while getting dressed for school because she can’t seem to find the right combination of clothes. Joanne then spends lots of time trying to help Rachael and mornings have become a nightmare. The same thing happens regarding food. If Joanne doesn’t have the food Rachael wants, or doesn’t like the meal Joanne has prepared, Rachael often complains and carries on. If Joanne and her husband Dan want to go out alone for dinner or with friends, Rachael is outraged at being left out. Joanne consistently validates Rachael’s feelings by saying things like, “I really understand how you feel,” or “I really understand that this is important to you.”

However, in continuing to attend to Rachael’s feelings and giving them a lot of her time, Joanne is indulging Rachael and teaching her to use her feelings as a form of control. In addition, Joanne is not helping Rachael learn to manage her feelings rather than dump them on others. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean we need to act on the feelings. As adults, just because we may feel like having a ice cream for breakfast, doesn’t mean we indulge ourselves in having it. Just because we feel like sleeping in when we need to go to work doesn’t mean we allow our feelings to determine our behavior. Just because we feel like punching someone in the nose doesn’t mean we do it. Hopefully, we’ve learned to acknowledge and release our feelings without letting them control us.

The same needs to be true with our children. We need to learn to comfort our children’s authentic feelings, such as the pain over the loss of a friendship, while not giving much attention to feelings expressed to control. When Joanne takes responsibility for fixing Rachael’s feelings, Rachael does not have to learn to take care of her own feelings. Joanne needs to walk away from or ignore Rachael’s tantrums and complaints when they are about things like her clothes or food. She needs to let Rachael know that, while she understands her feelings, Rachael also needs to learn to accept things as they are. Accepting how things are is part of learning to manage feelings.

If Joanne wants Rachael to grow up with good values, she needs to not give energy to issues such as the clothes. Indulging Rachael in thinking the right clothes are so important is not good for Rachael. Indulging Rachael in controlling whether or not she is included in adult activities is also not good for Rachael. Rachael needs to learn to accept things even if she doesn’t like them – we all need to learn this. By indulging Rachael’s manipulative behavior through giving all her feeling so much importance, Joanne is creating a child with entitlement issues.Before we can help our children manage their feelings in healthy ways, we need to learn to manage our feelings in healthy ways. If you are indulgent with your feelings, your children will learn to do the same. If you are using your feelings to manipulate others, or allowing other to manipulate you with their feelings, your children will learn this from you. One of the best things you can do for your children is to become a role model regarding taking personal responsibility for your feelings.

wow this was a perfect read thanks for finding that and sharing that with me. This is EXACTLY what is going on. So how would I break this down to share it with the DCM? Or should I just file it away to read again later so I better understand?

[MarinaVanessa]

I do believe she's bent on raising a sociopath!

Not at all. Some children need more attention than others and need more validation. Even negative attention is better than no attention at all to a young child. Actually it's pretty normal for children to 'fib' at this age and to tell stories. This is probably just his way of getting attention that he is craving.

It's hard to say why he is craving this attention. He could not be getting attention at home, he could not have good self esteem/confidence, he could be getting a lot of negative attention at home, he could be a super needy child by nature etc. It's really hard to say. If he is being catered to like this at home then could be "fueling the fire". If he is only punished at home but validated at daycare when parent is present then this could be confusing to the child.

If provider ignores this behavior yet DCM reinforces it during drop-off and pick-ups then I don't ask why it's happening, I ask why not. The DCB has found a way that gives him attention and from what little I know it doesn't seem to be the provider's attention he is looking for. He has found what works for him. There is a payoff = moms attention.

As far as actual strategies to remedy this, well that's more difficult. It CAN be done without mom's help but it'll just take longer. You somehow need to take DCM out of the scenario and find a way to do 'bye-bye outside' in a way that can work for you. Maybe just leave sign in sheet outside for her to sign, have her knock and you take DCB and write in the time yourself. While in DC try different things like stories about fibbing (boy who cried wolf), reinforcing positive behavior, pointing out when he does fib but not making a big deal about it then quickly turning your attention to a child that is doing something positive etc. It's hard to say exactly what will work, all children are different.

[Laurel]

My sister trained her daughter to do this when there were some girls teasing her at school. Every time they said something rude, like "your hair is ugly" or "what is WITH your clothes?" etc, my niece would respond "that must be SO sad for you!" or something like that, over and over. NO.MATTER.WHAT. The answer doesn't need to make sense for fit the situation. The fact that it's slightly confusing throws them off their game.

It took a few days, but it worked! At first, they pushed MORE, but then they got bored.

I saw an episode of the children's show Little Bill. They suggested just saying "So"?

[Laurel]

wow this was a perfect read thanks for finding that and sharing that with me. This is EXACTLY what is going on. So how would I break this down to share it with the DCM? Or should I just file it away to read again later so I better understand?

Just give her a copy. She already knows how you feel.