Do Your Daycare Kids Act Out at Pickup?

[rmc20021]

I call the dynamic of bad behavior at drop off and pick up "Changing of the Guard" behavior. It is seen primarily in children who are in charge of the relationship with their parents. It is seen in children who are more powerful than their parents and parents who want their child to be powerful/happy/special/ more than they want the child to have good public and interpersonal relationship. The parent does not want the child to cry so outbursts of obviously inappropriate behavior are acceptable to the parent as long as the child does them without crying and is happy. The harshest discipline used for these kids is "corporal coddling".

Changing of the guard behavior at drop off is when the child goes from being in power/control while in the care of his parents to the provider being in power/control while in the care of the provider. The child cries or acts out because they do not want to relinquish their control. They don't want the control to go to the provider so they delay the transfer of power by acting out.

They also want the provider to see that they are in control because arrivals and departures are the only opportunity the child has to make it clear to the provider that they are in control. As soon as the door closes behind the parent the child looses that really powerful position as their power supply has just backed up out the driveway.

At pick ups again the child realizes that once their power supply (parents) have arrived that they are back into power. They see that the parent again gives them the kingdom and you the provider aren't stopping them from taking over. They are used to the provider being the leader ALL day long so they KNOW something is terribly wrong when you all of a sudden stop leading.

All the kid sees is two adults who are not making him stop and demanding he behave properly in public. He has no choice to become the leader because the adults around him are not doing it. He loves to be the leader but unfortunately is ill equipped for the job as he is just a child. Children should NEVER lead adults. Children should NEVER lead themselves or other children. They are terribly inadaquate leaders. When they are allowed the job of leader the entire time they are in that role everything falls apart. Everyone is unhappy and nothing works out well.

The parent is often misbehaving at the drop off and pick up too. The parent knows when their child is behaving badly in public. They know how the adults around them looks when their child is acting up. They can feel the negative energy and exhasted energy from the adults around their child's public display of bad behavior. THEY KNOW THE PROVIDER HATES IT but they don't take over. They don't put a stop to it.

The parents often feel the provider works FOR them and because they are paying the provider that the provider should just have to DEAL with this witnessing of poor behavior. The parent doesn't care if it upsets you, your other day care kids, your kids. They are paying you and you better get to toleration quick or they will scoot on out your business.

The parent may have some other motivations for allowing it too. They may WANT the child to hang out at the day care before they go to work and after they are off of work because they are trying to get the kid off of their clock for as long as possible. There are a certain segment of parent population who allow misbehavior at drop off and pick up as a STALL technique to keep the child at day care longer. These are the ones that allow a wide breadth of time for their kid to be in care when they really only need nine hours. These parents will often pick providers with open hours so the parent can use time BEFORE work and AFTER work to be at the providers house with the kid because they don't want to be home with the kid by themselves any longer than they have to.



The provider is in a bad situation too. She doesn't like the changing of the guard behavior. She wants the child to behave as he does when SHE is leading him. She feels she can't discipline kids in front of their parent. She knows she wouldn't want someone disciplining HER kids in front of her so she sits back praying to Jesus that the parent put the kabosh on this and take over.

She also knows that it's a pretty touchy deal to start disciplining the kid especially at pick up time. She could offend the parent and the parent could pull the kid. She really really WANTS the kid to LEAVE so she can get on with her own family so she doesn't want to do ANYTHING to get prolong it.

So now you have the perfect storm. The child is being bombarded with badly behaving adults ... adults who are not being true to their feelings... adults who will not do WHATEVER it takes to show the child that the child can NEVER lead in their presence....

and a child who is BEGGING for calm stable minute to minute leadership

I don't have this dynamic in my day care because I do not EVER allow a child to lead in my home. I don't allow them to lead me or lead their parents. From the second the kid hits the inside of my house they are being led by ME. I don't leave the leadership up to the parents. I'm glad when I have ones that DO lead but I'm the leadingest leader no matter what.

IF a child is acting up at arrivals and departures despite my insistence that I be the leader then I institute the "Buh Bye Outside" program. This is where the parent says good bye to the child outside my door at drop off and does NOT come into the house. At pick up "I" say good bye to the child inside the house and send them out the door and the parent does NOT come in the house.

Both arrival and departure the child does not see the parent and I together. The parent brings the child to my door in the morning and says their goodbyes on my front step. They have as long as they want to say goodbye. They can spend an hour there if that's what they need. Once the parent knocks on my door then that is the signal that they are COMPLETELY DONE saying goodbye.

I open the door and just take the child over my threshold and shut the door very quickly. That makes the transition VERY short for the kid. This allows the parent to be the only adult tolerating the child's bad behavior. This takes away the audience for the child and parents bad behavior. This takes away the element of "you have to put up with my prince/princesses behavior because I am the boss of you and I pay you".

At departure the parent is to call me within five minutes of the arrival and we do the same thing in reverse. As soon as the parent arrives on my doorstep I open it up and assist the kid back over the threshold and quickly shut my door.

Rinse and repeat.

It usually takes about three days of the buh bye outside program to get both the parent and child to behave. By the third day the parent is bored out of their mind standing outside with their kid. The kid realizes that there isn't an audience for his behavior and the message that ANY time he is around the provider the provider is in charge is not broken or challenged.

I can always tell when we are ready to start integrating them back into the house by the decrease in the kids fit. I watch them thru the window. When the kid just comes and stands at my doorway looking at the door then I know it's time to start letting them EASE their way back into saying goodbye inside the house.

I start by allowing it at drop off but if the child causes any chaos they go back to saying good bye outside immediately. If drop off goes well for a few days then we try the inside departure. The slightest hint that the kid is going to act up and we go back to just donig the departure outside.

It's very important for the provider to take charge of the entire time the child is in your home. If you allow the parents to be the leader you will very often find that they won't do it. There are a LOT of parents who feel that their child should lead because they are special and they are theirs. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find parents who believe that they should always lead and that it is an embarrasment and a shame for their child to behave poorly around the day care.

It is an embarrasment and a shame that kids behave badly in public. We are their public. The only way to get the whole cycle to stop in my experience is to completely take charge of the entire thing. I don't allow ANY misbehavior when they are in my home. I don't hesitate in ANY way to discipline the children when they are under my roof. I don't give a flip whether their parents are here or not. The children NEVER see my behavior change when their parents arrive. I don't act any different to the child when the parent is here. I'm just as strict with my expectations whether the parent is there or not.

I don't allow parents to misbehave in my house. If they do not cease control of their kid and despite my interjections the kids are still acting up then they are not allowed the PRIVLEDGE of doing arrivals and departures inside my home. Once the parent and child looses the privledge of arrivals and departures inside they very quickly get bored of the rediculous behavior and start behaviing... BOTH the parent and the child start behaving.

Bottom line is stop allow the kid and the parent to misbehave on your properly. Your house your rulses for EVERYBODY. Be the leader the child and parent need you to be. Be the leader every second of the time you have them in your home.

When you lead they will follow and peace will be yours.

Totally and completely agree. When a child is in daycare all day long and have rules which are different than what they have at home, they want to show the provider they can do all the things which are forbidden at the daycare, yet they can do with their parents. I don't think I've ever had a child who hasn't acted out in one way or another at (mostly) pickup time.

[Jewels]

I don't have any that just act out, I used to have 1, but she was a hard kid here also.....I do have 1 very sweet almost 3 year old, that I know holds his emotions in all day, there are times I know he wants to cry but he just ****s it back, sometimes when his mom comes, he will drop himself down and start to cry while getting his coat, on and he'll get frustrated a little, and mom says when he gets home he usually goes to his room and cries for 5 minutes then comes back out ready to play, he is just the sweetest boy, I love him so much, him and his brother are awesome kids, its not like he acts out, he just starts getting rid of some of those emotions, he will let me hold hug and comfort him during the day, but I can always tell he wants his mommy.

[Angelsj]

Nan - I like a lot of what you said.
I have the problem of ALL of the kids acting up whenever ANYONE enters the home.
Now - seeing how it is NOT an option to completely stop people from entering my home (it just isn't - take me at my word) what would you suggest I do to keep the group from acting up and getting really rambunctious while I'm taking the five minutes that I need to have a conversation?
I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on this because I am at my wits end to be honest.

I also have a problem that when my afterschool kids get here the energy level of the entire group sky rockets and I almost lose control of everything.

School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.

[nannyde]

School age kids have to be strictly controlled. You need to sit them down and have a chat. Decide how you want your afternoon to go.
We do:
Arrival, hang up coats and sit down for snack 20 mins
If it is nice, send them outside for the remainder of the time
If not, have a craft/painting/legos or something they must do sitting at the table. I have several toys that only the older kids can use. Either the littles are gone at that time, or I give the older kids a safe place to use the "older kid" toys separate from the little ones.
Not sure how long you have them, but you cannot just let them come in and free play. You must remain strictly in control if you cannot give them an outdoor place to run wild. They have been cooped up all day at school and have a ton of energy that must be channeled.

We aren't allowed to send them outside without an adult outside with them at all times AND that adult can not be an assistant. It HAS to be a co-provider or a substitute. A substitute has to be 21 years or older AND you can only use a substitute 28 hours per month.

It would take the entire salary of the school agers to cover the adult who has to be outside with them. A substitute is expensive.

I don't take school agers. They are too expensive and the pay is too small. They are too much work and cause too many issues with equipment, interpersonal issues, and parent/provider conflict. They also don't take a nap so they are out of the question.

[Springdaze]

i find my own kids are the worst at pick up. I can see a change in behavior and look at the clock and it is always 5pm when it starts! I wish they would "go home" at pick up time!

[Blackcat31]

I was totally gonna post this same question!! I have a 3 yr old dcg who I've had since birth M-F and just recently she has become this crazy wild child I have NEVER seen before at pick up time. I have an entry way that is completely separated by a half door so she has no audience except parent picking up (and me) but she climbs the coat cubbies, jumps onto and off of the bench, pulls things out of other's baskets and basically turns into Sybill. Dcm just goes about her business and tries her best to get dcg shoes and coat on. I have tried saying something to both dcm and child, but nothing seems to phase this girl. We have even tried discussions the next morning, pep talks right before pick up to remind her of rules and she just goes crazy every day at pick up regardless. Lately I have been just walking away from entry room and leaving dcm to deal with her flailing wailing child on her own.
I also have an 18 month old who clings to me and cries and freaks out whenever I try to hand her over 1/2 door to dcm at pick up. I get that she loves being here, but sheesh! Pick ups are becoming crazy here!
I guess it beats screaming kids at drop off since they ALL come in eagerly...just seems as though NO ONE wants to leave lately!!

LOL!! This is an old thread so reading my post from back then is funny!

I know the info is still relevant but I no longer have this issue (with ay of my DCK's) and I still have this 3 yr old and the 18 month old I mentioned above.

Of course they are older now but wow! how things change!

[Play Care]

In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.

[Brooksie]

I have it in my contracts that during pick up and drop off the parents are responsible for their Children's behavior. I'm not going to step on their parenting. I have a couple older kids that really act out but my others are infants and are always happy to see their parents. But recently I got a drop in kid who is almost 3 and when his Step mom/dads girlfriend picks him up (always the last kid to be picked up) he cries and hides behind me and doesn't want to leave, even though before she walks in the door he says he's excited to see her. I can really tell that it bothers her and she always tries to explain to me that he normally really likes her. It kinda breaks my heart for her, but I just explain that with that age kids are experiencing a lot of new emotions and its just a little separation anxiety. All kids do it at some point, in some way. I have another B/C school age 5 yr old who is an angel for me, and always listens the first time I ask, but he hides from his dad when he picks him up and dilly dallies. He also acts like he cant put his shoes or coat on by himself and despite multiple requests from his dad, rarely listens the first time. I really don't think its my place to jump in and take over, since he listens here so well. Its just kind of like, rubbing it in their face at that point. Like "IDK why he doesn't liksten to you, he's great here" I think it just seems like overkill. Let them deal with it once they are out of the door.

[Jewels]

In my state school agers can be outside without me but I physically have to check on them every 15 minutes. I do allow it because the back of my home is mostly windows and I have a good view of them in the back yard. But I am constantly making sure they are behaving...I will say that I do agree with having to be on school agers every minute and let them know who is in charge. If I could get rid of the school aged kids I would, because I find them to be more trouble than they are worth.

I have done the outside good byes and it really helps.

My school agers are also aloud to be outside by themselves, I only "need to be available to them" I love this in the summer, as they go outside to play during rest time.

[Lefse&Kids]

I love the outside bye bye method. I used to have issues with pick-up and drop-offs but since I switched to having the kids get ready to go home I have had no real issues . I think it works because as soon as they are able to try to put on shoes I have them start practicing getting ready to go. So from day one they know what to expect. Also, I believe it helps their mind transition from "daycare" to "home". Children need that transition time, and without our guidance on how they need to respond during that time they go NUTS. I also believe that it is both power and excitement involved in the mass amount of misbehavior during pick-ups (that's when it happens most for me, if ever)

[hope]

I had a problem with the DCKs and my own children acting out at pick ups so now I seperate the kids by age groups. I keep the newborn, one year old and two year olds in the playroom with me. The five, four and three year olds play in my kids bedrooms. The three and four year old are mine so they are fine playing in their rooms without me for twenty minutes. Pick ups have run a lot more smoothly now. For whatever reason it works!

[melilley]

Yes mine do! We are usually outside at pick up or doing free play and they don't want to go home! Some kick and scream all the way to their car. I guess it's a good sign that they like it here!

[jenn]

This is an old thread, but a good one

I love the bye bye outside. Mine are coats on, belongings gathered, ready to step out the door when I answer it. The kid goes out to the parent waiting on the porch, I shut the door, nice and smooth.

A concern I do have though, is I have two parents that then let their child run all around after outside. I am inside watching from the window (they can't see me), but rather than grabbing their kid and getting them in the car, they let them run around the yard. Yesterday one was in my flowerbed and the mom just let her climb around until she was ready to go. The other child on day was almost hit by a car while the dad watched him run up and down the sidewalk and into the street. What about the liability in that? They are on my property, but have been released to the parent and I am back inside caring for other kids. I have talked to the parents many times about this, but they are both families that let their kids lead.

[lovemykidstoo]

I have the same issues as you all do. A couple of things have been irritating me lately. I have a couple of parents that will pick up their children (2 and 3 yrs old) and hold them while saying goodbye to me at pickup. The light switch (3 switches) is right there. These parents sit there and let their kids turn on and off, on and off the switches while talking to me. I have said, oh no don't do that and yet they still stand there and let them do it. Drives me nuts.

Also another issue is sometimes when 2 of them come at once the 2 moms start flapping to each other and they are the last ones to pickup. So I'm standing their letting them gab and really just want to shove them out the door so I can begin my night. What is a tackful way to tell them to beat it?

[Michelle]

I remember the conveyer belt idea someone said on a very old thread...
that would work really great too!

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