Is There Anything I Can Say - or Just Keep Ignoring It

[Lucy]

identity is so secret what does that mean? Where did you see me say that?

parents can't even lay eyes on any of the other children You made that up. I didn't say that anywhere.

Again, you've taken this so well and I commend you, but I just cannot fathom your philosophies. Taken WHAT so well? I don't know what you mean.

I won't turn this into a back & forth thing. I'm really commending you for taking all the negative attention well. People (including myself) have strongly disagreed with your methods, and you have not come back in a snarky way. Kudos for that.

The rest, I'm taking perceived meaning of what you have said throughout this whole thread that parents are explicitly NOT allowed in the daycare room(s) and are explicitly NOT allowed to interact with the other kids. Did you not say that you don't want the families to form a relationship? (edited to add a quote from you): "I don't allow the day care parents around the other day care kids." If I have interpreted your incorrectly, I apologize. I really wasn't even going to comment, as I made it clear in an earlier post in this thread, but I broke down and just had to point out that you post pictures of these otherwise seemingly esoteric kids. In all truthfulness, there is obviously a niche for your brand of care, and if it is working, more power to you. Carry on. It's just not for me in any way, shape, or form. But that's neither here nor there, right?

[nannyde]

nannyde what does your son do during the day? I imagine he is at school most of the day now, since he is older, but what about before? What about when he was an infant or toddler? Did you send him to another daycare?

I just don't get it. The biting, tantrums, hitting, etc are all normal toddler behaviors, it is how they learn before they are verbal. I wish I could avoid all of that, but I don't understand how you can do it. :confused:

What ages do you have?

birth to five

He's in school but when he was younger he cruised the house and did his own thing.

[nannyde]

Nannyde, I am very interested in your techniques. I have a VERY low tolerance for physical contact among my own kids and my dc kids. Even a pat on the back can get out of control quite quickly. However, many times I haven't been able to predict a random outburst of hitting. Up until I read what you said earlier in this thread, I have been operating under the assumption that hitting, biting, etc. is normal (even though it's unacceptable and I deal with it as promptly as possible). My working theory has been that some children (not all) need to experience consequences before understanding what's right and wrong in the first place. And of course, the only way they can experience consequences is by breaking the rules. I hadn't considered the idea that the aggression isn't a necessary evil of childhood.

How do you prevent it, especially among children so young? How exactly do you avoid the inevitable toddler outburst? If a child comes to you over the age of one, how do you teach them your rules without them testing them?

Dbug

You are welcome to call me. I do some coaching for providers during nap or evenings. If you message me your number I could set up a time to call you. I have free long distance.

Just let me know if I can help.

[caitlin]

I still can't imagine this, and I am sorry. I have four children in my care M-F, a 5 month old, 20 month old, 12 month old and 28 month old. I have no staff to assist me. I don't allow "violence" in my home, but it still happens. I correct it when it happens, but it STILL happens. Today, my son (12 months) hit the 28 month old. I corrected it, told my ds hitting is not nice, gave the dcb a hug and they were fine. Are they going to grow into serial killers? No.

I would like to hear some more of your methods. Like, when your son was little how do you get infants and your son on such a good schedule that he was asleep when they were awake and vice versa? :confused:

[nannyde]

How do the kids you watch adjust once they leave your care and start school and are suddenly surrounded by kids their own age? They aren't rotated out, they are with the same kids all the day through! Also suddenly they are seeing all sorts of new behaviors, vocab and things you refer to as violence and didn't put up with, just wondering how they all adjust?

That's a great question JP

You have to remember that the children have a life outside of day care. They have family, friends, neighbors, church ties, etc. They go out into the world all the time without me and their mates here.

They are usually here until Kindy so I make it a point to start talking to the parents around March or so about preparing them for what life will be like in a bigger group of kids and a different caretaker.

It's really important to have these conversations with the parents and over time (usually about six months) we start discussing it with the child going to Kindy.

We try to prepare them as much as we can for things that will be different and things we think will be the same. Kids being physical with them is one of our main topics. We don't want to SCARE them into thinking they will get the crap beat out of them but they DO need to know that there will be kids there who solve things by fighting. There is really no way to prepare them for it other than talking about it.

It's like all other phases of life. We do our best to give them a good foundation but eventually they WILL get out into the world and see things they didn't know existed.

I have only one family here who have a school aged child who was raised here. I asked her Dad this afternoon what he remembers of her adjustment. He said that she didn't understand "tattling" when she started Kindy. She had to learn when to and not to tell an adult what other kids were doing. The concept of tattling never came up in her childhood here

She's an awesome little student and an even better friend. She definitely got what she needed for success. I'm not too worried about those who come after her.

A good solid childhood with stability, consistency, and discipline will ALWAYS serve them well.

[BentleysBands]

may i ask , am i the only one who thinks the part of no lotions, smells of perfume,etc and telling a parent what detergent can be used is a bit extreme??

but if it works for you, thats great

[nannyde]

may i ask , am i the only one who thinks the part of no lotions, smells of perfume,etc and telling a parent what detergent can be used is a bit extreme??

but if it works for you, thats great

It is extreme isn't it? I have a special needs child who is violently allergic to scents. Protecting that child is required by Federal Law.

http://www.ada.gov/childq%26a.htm

Centers have to make reasonable modifications to their policies and practices to integrate children, parents, and guardians with disabilities into their programs unless doing so would constitute a fundamental alteration.

Providing a scent free environment is a modification I am REQUIRED to make for this child.

It's so extreme

My day care parents know how important it is to keep this kid safe. They go to EXTREME measures to make sure they don't expose him to something that could take his life.

Rediculous isn't it?

[BentleysBands]

It is extreme isn't it? I have a special needs child who is violently allergic to scents. Protecting that child is required by Federal Law.

http://www.ada.gov/childq%26a.htm

Centers have to make reasonable modifications to their policies and practices to integrate children, parents, and guardians with disabilities into their programs unless doing so would constitute a fundamental alteration.

Providing a scent free environment is a modification I am REQUIRED to make for this child.

It's so extreme

My day care parents know how important it is to keep this kid safe. They go to EXTREME measures to make sure they don't expose him to something that could take his life.

Rediculous isn't it?

lil touche? no need to be so ugly...i personally thought it was extreme and said if it works thats great for you. i was NOT ugly ! i understand about keeping children safe DUH!
i should call Dr. Phil ...maybe you need to really expand yourself...seriously..not being mean. you may really help someone!

[Unregistered]

Way back when I worked at a private college prep school. The school served children from PreK through 12th grade. The tuition? $20K per year, not including uniforms, meal services, or bussing. It also didn't include the expected "fair share" contribution to the annual fund (the fair share amound was $1500 per family to make the million dollar per year goal) nor the expected contribution to the endowment fund. It didn't include donations to the silent auction OR the volunteer hours which were REQUIRED of all parents. Interestingly, although these children did get a great education, it is NOT the best education. In fact, there were a several public schools who scored higher for the state of MN.

So, why would parents shell out $20K so little Susie's early education? Well, the school offered something that they wanted for their child. Often, it was bragging rights...You know, like, "OMG! It is SO hard to get in there! We had to attend THREE seperate interviews!"

Sometimes it may have been something that was important to them, such as...

"We only eat whole foods, organics, and chemical free foods...my child's school serves NOTHING but the best food!"

or for the crunchy granola types,

"The _____ School requires all kids to participate in charitable activities...in FACT all kids must do a one year long service project. My little Susie is building arc's in Bosnia."

Of course, there is always, "OMG! Your child got HIT? In school? OMG!!!! That would never happen in my child's school. My child's school is a safe enviornment."

Now, lots of parents would give say, "OMG! I am SO not going to spend that kind of money for Susie to go to freakin' preschool! Are those people crazy? Where do they get off charging that, expecting this, or requiring that! Those kids are no better than mine, and I bet that they get in to their fair share of trouble too"

The answer is simple, because they CAN!

Hats off Nan! You have created the ultimate it private daycare. You have established a reputation for providing nothing but the best, and your parents are willing to jump through hoops to get it! Good for you!

3kidsmom

For the record, I would guess that the reason that Nan doesn't get upset when people disagree is because she is laughing her way to the bank..after a relatively stress free day of doing things her own way, and having her parents appreciate her for it.

[QualiTcare]

it doesn't seem like the rates are really much higher than anyone's and even lower than some.

it's not really a matter of how things are done. it's the fact that someone can claim to never have a child even attempt to be aggressive (a YOUNG child doing what young children do) EVER...not ONE time...in 17 years. it's bologna.

[nannyde]

it doesn't seem like the rates are really much higher than anyone's and even lower than some.

it's not really a matter of how things are done. it's the fact that someone can claim to never have a child even attempt to be aggressive (a YOUNG child doing what young children do) EVER...not ONE time...in 17 years. it's bologna.

For my area my rates are high. :::: I make more per kid than the Center down the street from me but I also have a better adult to child ratio than they do.

[nannyde]

Hats off Nan! You have created the ultimate it private daycare. You have established a reputation for providing nothing but the best, and your parents are willing to jump through hoops to get it! Good for you!

3kidsmom

For the record, I would guess that the reason that Nan doesn't get upset when people disagree is because she is laughing her way to the bank..after a relatively stress free day of doing things her own way, and having her parents appreciate her for it.

Ah this is nuttin. I've been on day care message boards for 12 years.

I'm so used to it that it goes in one and out the other. I think it's terribly sad that the idea of raising kids without violence (defined by me as hitting, shoving, kicking, hair pulling, slapping, slamming, and biting) is just impossible to do.

It IS possible. I've been doing it for YEARS. I had to learn my first year of doing care what to do to avoid it but I've been completely successful since.

People want a magic bullet answer to what makes it work and I don't have ONE thing or a small group of things that I do to make this happen. I have hundreds of rules of play and hundreds of non direct care things I do to make it all happen so easily, so calmly, and so happily every day. One of my hundreds of rules is NO PARENTS IN THE PLAYROOM that contributes greatly to keep children and the energy in the house C-A-L-M. Calm kids don't fight. One of the main reasons I get picked is because we are violence free. If the parent wants that they have to do THEIR part in making that happen and THEIR part is to stay clear of my playroom where the other kids are playing.

I haven't written a book on this so I don't have all my methods pretyped out or put into words. It would take me forever to do that so the best I can do is answer posts as they come up and say what I do. Whenever I do that I get whacked upside the head for either lying or being mean to kids. I'm used to that ... it happens every time.

Oh and laugh to the bank... yes we are very successful here BUT a lot of it goes into the program so I don't get to keep it all of course. I actually live a very modest life in a middle class neighborhood. I'm very very fortunate that I have been able to prosper especially in the last three years since the economy here took a dive. Our providers here are DYING for kids. The Center down the street from me is at 40 percent capacity right now. I think they may actually close down soon. I don't think they will make it much longer. They have a capacity for 65 kids and they only have two or three cars in their parkinglot every day when I take my kids to see their kids. (My kids call them the "fenced in kids"" When I ask the on site supervisor how many kids do you have today she says 27 or 32. That's not good.

My friends who have done day care for twenty plus years are all sitting at half capacity. It's very very hard to compete with providers offering 90 dollar a week day care and in some areas the average has dropped to that. For the first time in my long career State Paid kids are the highest paying kids on the market for most providers in our area. That's a pretty sad deal.

I've stayed full all the way and have been able to raise rates. It hasn't affected my business in any way. Now I have a waiting list... woooot

I have a part time Forum job called "Ask the Nan" at www.justthebabysitter.com where I answer specific questions regarding growth and development and discipline. Ease on over if you have any specific questions. It takes me a bit to get them answered but I will get to it as soon as I can.

[nannyde]

lil touche? no need to be so ugly...i personally thought it was extreme and said if it works thats great for you. i was NOT ugly ! i understand about keeping children safe DUH!
i should call Dr. Phil ...maybe you need to really expand yourself...seriously..not being mean. you may really help someone!

Did you read the part that said "Due to a very serious allergy to most perfumes and fragrances, parents and children may not enter the day care at any time wearing any kind of perfume, after shave, lotion, or scents. "?

How in Gods green earth could you think a policy about scents could be extreme AFTER you read that section which was before the list of specific lotions and scents that would be okay?

Touchy? Yeah because what you said was RUDE. It's like you don't even CARE about someone in the house having a very serious allergy.

[BentleysBands]

Did you read the part that said "Due to a very serious allergy to most perfumes and fragrances, parents and children may not enter the day care at any time wearing any kind of perfume, after shave, lotion, or scents. "?

How in Gods green earth could you think a policy about scents could be extreme AFTER you read that section which was before the list of specific lotions and scents that would be okay?

Touchy? Yeah because what you said was RUDE. It's like you don't even CARE about someone in the house having a very serious allergy.

LOL interesting as I DO have a very allergic person IN my home, ME...alllergic to BS !

[DancingQueen]

I think it's terribly sad that the idea of raising kids without violence (defined by me as hitting, shoving, kicking, hair pulling, slapping, slamming, and biting) is just impossible to do.

I just want to clarify that I too am raising children without violence. I don't teach it, accept it, tolerate it, promote it, expose them to it or encourage it. I live in a violence free home.
Just because a child hit once in your home does NOT mean that you are raising them WITH violence. Instead of booting a child out of my care for violence I'd rather take the time and help this child learn the right way.

I stand by my post earlier which I'd be curious to see how many share the same philosophy...

I use the same philosophy. I don't allow hitting, pushing or any of those things. They are not only discouraged but the children in my care will receive a consquence for them and I discuss with parents. I encourage using words over actions always. I help them find the words they need. When they grunt or push I help them use their words - they don't get things by yelling or crying or grunting. I teach manners and expect them to be used. I encourage respect for everyone and everything in my home and out of my home. I teach sharing and understanding. I help the older kids to understand that the younger kids are little kids but not to relinquish anything to them just because they are little. We share and take turns. But in everything that I teach and expect there are always situations during the learning process where a child makes the wrong choice. My job is to help them learn the right way to express themselves. I don't like the implications made that anything other than nans way is teaching or allowing violence.
I find it idiotic.

If I have an 18 month old that hits another child (even a 4 year old <gasp>) I try to figure out what caused the hitting to begin with. Generally it is a lack of ability to communicate. I help them find the words they need in order to avoid hitting in the future.. but it takes time and understanding.

I think if I separated my kids in groups of say 1 18 month old with 1 four year old. I'd still end up with squabbles because the 18 month old is looking for instant gratification and I don't believe the 4 year old should give in to the 18 month old every time. I think if they did there would never be hitting - but I think that 18 month old is old enough to learn about waiting their turn. While learning to wait their turn they get frustrated and can occasionally hit or yell or shove or try to simply TAKE from the 4 year old. That doesn't make them violent! That makes them a 18 month old that hasn't yet learned or is still in the process of learning their words and the concept of sharing.