Subsidy Card...The Future

[Heidi]

what do you think of this? Do you think it will work?

WI had huge fraud problems where parents and providers colluded to bilk the system. Do you think the state will be able to prevent that if they're out of the billing loop?

http://dcf.wi.gov/childcare/subsidy_ebt_card/default.htm

Our opinions here wont make any difference; if our state has decided this is the way to go, then they will do it, more than likely without provider input. If they ask for it, they'll mostly ignore it anyway, based on previous experience.

[Blackcat31]

I guess I am not "getting" the point?

The state is going to give them EBT cards verses just issuing a check to you (the provider)?

It says the benefits are that parents can choose their own provider and can have a closer relationship.... can't they do that already?

Maybe it's too early in the morning but I don't see how this "fixes" anything.

Whether they get funds on an EBT card to pay for care or have payment sent directly to provider from state has no benefit or con either way...

Do you have any other details or "why" they want to do this?

[craftymissbeth]

I don't take subsidy payments, but I'm pretty sure this is the system Kansas uses. I have no idea if it's good or bad or if it helps prevent provider fraud, though.

[Cat Herder]

Is this so they can bypass the issues that caused those of us, who choose not to take subsidy, to make that decision?

No more double billing and collecting? It is only to be used at "approved" vendors, how does that change choice of providers?

What happens when the acct is empty on payday? Who do we take to small claims? How will co-pays work?

Who is "negotiating" child care payment with parents on a month to month basis anyway?

To me it sounds like they want the parents haggling prices and micro-managing what they believe to be provider billing fraud of State funds. Do they get to keep any extra $$ from guilting the providers into discounts?

[nannyde]

Do they load the money BEFORE care is used or after care is used. If they load a month worth of care BEFORE then I can see it being great. The provider can pull the entire month out ahead of time so that she is paid in advance for her services. If the parent bails then she is at least paid thru the end of the month.

I don't see how it will combat fraud. I guess I'm missing something.

[nannyde]

Hmmm I wonder if the provider can only pull the money off the EBT card daily? That would mean the parent would have to be onsite to hand over the card every day.

[craftymissbeth]

Hmmm I wonder if the provider can only pull the money off the EBT card daily? That would mean the parent would have to be onsite to hand over the card every day.

In Kansas, they load the whole month at a time and the parent uses the ebt card to pay the provider either via phone or website. I don't think there's a way for providers to actually swipe the card. So the parent calls the state phone # or goes onto the state website, pays the provider and the money is put into the providers account (I believe).

I do think its possible to pay the full amount ahead of time, but our state subsidy is based on attendance so maybe not.

[Blackcat31]

Hmmm I wonder if the provider can only pull the money off the EBT card daily? That would mean the parent would have to be onsite to hand over the card every day.

Here is the pdf for Kansas....the use something similar

http://content.dcf.ks.gov/ees/KEESM/Appendix/V-1_EBT.pdf

It says providers can lease a POS machine (credit card reader machine) or be paid electronically to their bank accounts.

It appears clients get the money monthly and then chose to pay their provider in various ways.

For child care benefits, the client will have payment options. The first is through a point of sale (POS) machine. The provider may opt to lease a POS machine and the client would transfer child care payments via the POS. The second is through an SIVR (Speech Interactive Voice Response). This is a toll-free telephone payment option.

Parents may use the SIVR from any location and at any time. This method can be used with providers not wishing to lease a POS machine. It is NOT recommended that parents use a pay phone to check balances and/or make payments.

The third is through the EBT Web Portal at (www.ebtedge.com). Clients must enter their card number and PIN to use the web site to view transactions and pay providers. Lastly, if the parent’s child care benefit is not enough to pay for all the child care expense the client can transfer benefits from their cash account (TAF) using the POS machine. This procedure cannot be used in the SIVR or Web payment process. There is no EBT charge to the parent for making any payment to the provider using the Vision card.

Similar to cash assistance, the child care benefits will be available to the parent on the first of each month. Child care benefits can only be used to pay child care providers and cannot be withdrawn as “cash.”

Maybe the system will work the same way... ??

[craftymissbeth]

Here is the pdf for Kansas....the use something similar

http://content.dcf.ks.gov/ees/KEESM/Appendix/V-1_EBT.pdf

It says providers can lease a POS machine (credit card reader machine) or be paid electronically to their bank accounts.

It appears clients get the money monthly and then chose to pay their provider in various ways.

For child care benefits, the client will have payment options. The first is through a point of sale (POS) machine. The provider may opt to lease a POS machine and the client would transfer child care payments via the POS. The second is through an SIVR (Speech Interactive Voice Response). This is a toll-free telephone payment option.

Parents may use the SIVR from any location and at any time. This method can be used with providers not wishing to lease a POS machine. It is NOT recommended that parents use a pay phone to check balances and/or make payments.

The third is through the EBT Web Portal at (www.ebtedge.com). Clients must enter their card number and PIN to use the web site to view transactions and pay providers. Lastly, if the parent’s child care benefit is not enough to pay for all the child care expense the client can transfer benefits from their cash account (TAF) using the POS machine. This procedure cannot be used in the SIVR or Web payment process. There is no EBT charge to the parent for making any payment to the provider using the Vision card.

Similar to cash assistance, the child care benefits will be available to the parent on the first of each month. Child care benefits can only be used to pay child care providers and cannot be withdrawn as “cash.”

Maybe the system will work the same way... ??

Oh, perfect! Thank you for finding this... I was off on some of my info.

[Heidi]

Nan...not sure on either point.

I, for one, would ONLY take state subsidy if I could pull the money in advance. There would be just too many ways one could get ripped off otherwise.

Questions in my mind on this...

1. Do the providers have to be specifically authorized for that parent? Now, they choose a provider and get an authorization for that child at that provider. If the parent can use just any legal provider, they could max out their card pretty quick by using 2 providers (unbeknownst to each other).

2. They just went through all this crap to create a tiered reimbursement system based on the provider's "stars rating". How would they control that, if not authorize ONE provider for each child? They also pay centers more than family providers, and pay them on enrollment while we are on attendance (since August of 2011, when they changed us from enrollment). So, does that mean that a parent that goes with a center gets more money on their card?

3. If they do authorize one provider, then what is the point? The provider still has to bill the state; just through a card vs. going online and putting in the attendance. So, while they've been hammering into us for the last 3 years that we must not only take attendance, but must bill for the EXACT hours of attendance, now, they're saying "oh, we don't care...you work it out". :confused:

Utah uses this type of system, too. Maybe Meeko can chime in?

[Cat Herder]

It says providers can lease a POS machine

Doesn't the BBB say anything that makes you pay in advance to receive payment is a scam? ::::::

I wonder what happens if they pay for a month on the first but only attend a week. Would the provider have to reimburse?

I don't think I'd like that risk....

[JoseyJo]

I don't take subsidy payments, but I'm pretty sure this is the system Kansas uses. I have no idea if it's good or bad or if it helps prevent provider fraud, though.

Yes- this is the system KS uses. I have had experience on both the old (check issued to provider) system and the new EBT system. IMO the new system is about equal in PITA-ness to the old system, in different ways.

In the old system you had to file a claim to the state after care was given, and wait for a check, so you weren't getting payment for services given in Jan until the end of Feb. You also had to keep track of hours MUCH more than with the new system, and you only got paid for the parent's work hours + drive time. I gave away hundreds of $ of daycare services one time with the old system because DCM was pretending to go to work and brought kids to me, but the state found out she wasn't working and refused to pay me for those services. DCM disappeared and I never got my $ from her. It was a lot faster to get a parent approved for services w/ the old system and was more a provider/state agreement than a parent/state agreement leaving less room for the parent to mess things up

In the new system the dcf must have a provider picked out and give DCF the date they will be starting with that provider. Then it takes approx 3-6 weeks to process the application. During that time the provider must either have the family pay OOP or go without payment. When/IF the application is approved $ will go onto the EBT card backdated to the start date. The DCF must then approve the transfer of $ to the provider. If the DCF doesn't approve the transfer of funds you don't get paid. They can't get the $ in cash, but you don't have any way to get it except by having them transfer it to your account. MANY of the families who have come in saying DCF will be paying haven't got approved (they didn't meet the qualifications and either lied or misunderstood the guidelines). The ones who have had NEVER gotten enough to pay my full fee (even single mom w/ min wage job and 3 kids). The most DCF pays here (for 18 months and up) is $2 an hour and I charge $120 a week. So as a provider the only way to make sure you don't end up giving away free services is to have the DCF pay in cash until the EBT transfers are made, then to refund the cash to the parent. Most families who could get assistance can't afford to pay the full tuition so they end up going to a low end center who is willing to take the risk of not receiving payment.

So in essence (IMO) the old system is more of a PITA for the provider, but the the new system is more of a PITA for the parent and is forcing low income families into sub-standard care.

[JoseyJo]

Nan...not sure on either point.

I, for one, would ONLY take state subsidy if I could pull the money in advance. There would be just too many ways one could get ripped off otherwise.

Questions in my mind on this...

1. Do the providers have to be specifically authorized for that parent? Now, they choose a provider and get an authorization for that child at that provider. If the parent can use just any legal provider, they could max out their card pretty quick by using 2 providers (unbeknownst to each other). yes, they have to be specifically authorized, and payments can ONLY be transferred to that provider's account, the parent cant get the $ and can't give it to anyone else (they could get a provider to agree to SAY they provided services when they didn't, transfer the $ to the provider and get the provider to give it to them in cash, but if caught both the provider and the parent would be in BIG legal trouble I am sure!

2. They just went through all this crap to create a tiered reimbursement system based on the provider's "stars rating". How would they control that, if not authorize ONE provider for each child? They also pay centers more than family providers, and pay them on enrollment while we are on attendance (since August of 2011, when they changed us from enrollment). So, does that mean that a parent that goes with a center gets more money on their card? At least in this system in KS providers are specifically assigned per child, and the payment rate is assigned per provider. Centers here do not receive more, but infants do. The rate for 18 mo and up is $2 per hour, under is $2.25 I believe. Providers are NOT paid based on the hours the child actually attended. During the approval process the parent has to prove what hours they work and are given a specific amount per month on their EBT daycare fund based on the hours they work, commute time, and income level. They use those fund to pay the provider and the funds roll over from month to month. The parent pays the provider the difference OOP

3. If they do authorize one provider, then what is the point? The provider still has to bill the state; just through a card vs. going online and putting in the attendance. So, while they've been hammering into us for the last 3 years that we must not only take attendance, but must bill for the EXACT hours of attendance, now, they're saying "oh, we don't care...you work it out". :confused: In this system in KS the provider doesn't bill the state, the provider actually does nothing accept get approved as a DCF provider and give the enrolling parent their provider #. You do not have to take attendance, don't have to turn in hours, nothing.

Utah uses this type of system, too. Maybe Meeko can chime in?

Hope that helps a little! No guarantee the system will be the same as KS uses but it sounds very similar!

[JoseyJo]

In Kansas, they load the whole month at a time and the parent uses the ebt card to pay the provider either via phone or website. I don't think there's a way for providers to actually swipe the card. So the parent calls the state phone # or goes onto the state website, pays the provider and the money is put into the providers account (I believe).

I do think its possible to pay the full amount ahead of time, but our state subsidy is based on attendance so maybe not.

In my experience DCF does not approve the use of a POS unless you have a certain number of families enrolled using state funds. I have never had more than 2 at a time so my families have always used the online system or the phone system to transfer funds to me.

[craftymissbeth]

In my experience DCF does not approve the use of a POS unless you have a certain number of families enrolled using state funds. I have never had more than 2 at a time so my families have always used the online system or the phone system to transfer funds to me.

Thank you for all of that info! It basically just solidified my decision to not take DCF payments. Too much hassle even if there isn't any extra paperwork or anything. My town is very low income... almost the entire town qualifies as Tier 1 on the food program. I've done just fine finding OOP clients despite that fact.