Subsidy Card...The Future

[Heidi]

Hope that helps a little! No guarantee the system will be the same as KS uses but it sounds very similar!

Ok..thanks. I can see advantages and certainly issues. Guess we can only wait-and see.

Right now, I only have one subsidized client, and I bill through the state's DWD website. I bill at the end of every 2-week period, and am paid via direct deposit a week later. Not too bad vs the old paper system that took weeks.

One issue we have no with attendance based pay is that people are actually tempted to cheat. I wont do it, but various parents have actually suggested if their child is sick and GMA or whoever stay's with them, "just write them down". Again, I won't do this, but it seems ridiculous that if the parent is still working, and the child is taking up a spot, then we either eat the cost or the parent has to pay out-of-pocket.

Or, the parent has to stay home, if they don't have a relative, and then loose pay AND pay out-of-pocket. State subsidized clients don't GENERALLY have jobs that pay sick days or vacation or much more than minimum wage. They also won't cover any school time, other than high-school. Why can't tech school or a certain amount of college credits (with a required GPA) be considered an "approved" activity?

[itlw8]

It looks like they think the providers commit fraud so they need to put it I the parents hands because they would never do anything wrong. They want the parents to pay for childcare like anyone else.

so at the first of the month they get the amount they are approved for and after they spend it at any approved provider they are out of money until the next month just like food stamps. Except there is no food bank for childcare.

[originalkat]

I don't take subsidy payments, but I'm pretty sure this is the system Kansas uses. I have no idea if it's good or bad or if it helps prevent provider fraud, though.

I do not take subsidy anymore either due to having issues with parents using this service. However, this is how they do it in Kansas. The only problem I foresee for providers who are used to having a check issued directly to them is that you will have to rely on the parent to be responsible to pay the tuition directly to you using your payment policies. I never have any issues with private pay paying on time, but I had constant issues with SRS parents paying me via their EBT. They would always seem to forget!! Needless to say, I do NOT take subsidy anymore.
I hope it works out in WI!

[Heidi]

It looks like they think the providers commit fraud so they need to put it I the parents hands because they would never do anything wrong. They want the parents to pay for childcare like anyone else.

so at the first of the month they get the amount they are approved for and after they spend it at any approved provider they are out of money until the next month just like food stamps. Except there is no food bank for childcare.

yeah, funny thing is, in most of the fraud cases, the parents colluded with the providers.

How about this one...which they have since blocked with regs.

I am a mom eligible so are you, and so is our buddy. Lets all become daycare providers. Now, I will bring my kids to you, and you to buddy, and she to me. Now, we will all apply for subsidy, and claim our children don't fit into our group, either because they are the wrong age, or because they take up spots. Then, we will all bill the state for each other's children. Oh, well, you don't actually have to bring your kids anywhere, though, because no one checks attendance records...there are none required at this point (changed post-fraud scandal).

OR:

I will open a daycare center, and hire 3 or 4 low-income moms to work for me as teachers. They can bring their children to work, and they are eligible for state subsidy. So, I get, lets say $3.50 per hour per kid. Each mom has 3 kids, so that's $13.50 per hour. I will then pay mom $8.50 per hour for working here. Net, $5 per hour. Oh, and you don't actually have to come to work or bring your kids....we'll just bill the state, and I'll issue you a paycheck. On top of that, there were probably "quality improvement" grants these people got to buy equipment and toys. They then sold the stuff at a cut-rate, and took that money, too. Now, I was saying 3 or 4 people, but some of these places were licensed 24/7 for 50-60 kids, and yet when the licensing agents came to visit, there would be NO one there (oh, they're on a field trip), or a few kids here and there.

Nice, eh?

They have now made it a regulation that a center cannot have more than 40% of it's employees on state-subsidy. There's a whole audit process that red-flags anyone who hires their dcp's so that it's tracked carefully.

These cards will not change anything for those people who are crafty and dishonest enough to spend their time coming up with creative ways to steal from the system. They're a small percentage of people, but the rest of us pay for it. It stinks.

[Meeko]

Utah has been doing this for years now. I love it. I go to a web site at the end of each month and check that funds are authorized for the next month. It tells me exactly how much. It offers third party access, which I require all state funded parents to give me. If no funds are on the card, it tells me why. If the parents hasn't turned in all the right paperwork, it tells me. No stories from the mom.

So no bad surprises on the first and no excuses possible from the mom. No funds...no care....so better get their paperwork done.

On the first of each month, funds are pulled off the card and I am paid in advance for that month. Love it.

[Heidi]

Utah has been doing this for years now. I love it. I go to a web site at the end of each month and check that funds are authorized for the next month. It tells me exactly how much. It offers third party access, which I require all state funded parents to give me. If no funds are on the card, it tells me why. If the parents hasn't turned in all the right paperwork, it tells me. No stories from the mom.

So no bad surprises on the first and no excuses possible from the mom. No funds...no care....so better get their paperwork done.

On the first of each month, funds are pulled off the card and I am paid in advance for that month. Love it.

So, Meeko, can you answer some questions? My understanding is that WI is looking at Utah for some direction on this.

Do they pay all the providers the same, according the the parents income?

Ours is set up by regions (how close to a major city, basically), by provider "star" level, by regulation level, and by center/family care. They also pay centers on enrollment...for the spot, and family only by attendance.

Do they figure the amount the parent is eligible for the same way they did before the cards? Hours worked x pay means you get x $? Like food stamps (WI uses EBT for that).

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'm a big liberal and support the concept of subsidy. HOWEVER, I am preparing to stop accepting it. The paperwork is ridiculous and the intrusion and micro managing is becoming too much. I have been lucky and not seen any fraud or abuse in my program. For the most part, parents are appreciative and cooperative and I really liked having the kids get an opportunity to be in my otherwise somewhat pricey center......
But between QRIS, forms, intrusive oversight and problems getting paid by the state....I'm really over it. I only have one child on it now,.and am willing to take a pay cut to keep the child and ditch the state.

[JoseyJo]

so at the first of the month they get the amount they are approved for and after they spend it at any approved provider they are out of money until the next month just like food stamps. Except there is no food bank for childcare.

Exactly- they approve a certain amount for that family to use based on income and job hours and add it to their card- in a separate "account" that can only be used to transfer to their approved providers "account" (ie not "real" money, can only be used for childcare, like food stamps can only be used for food) at the beginning of each month. The parent can then transfer money to the provider as they see fit- daily, weekly, monthly, before services rendered, after ,etc. They get that certain amount of money on their card regardless of their work attendance and their child's daycare attendance. If they use it all up they have to pay the difference OOP, if they have extra left over it rolls to the next month.

[JoseyJo]

I never have any issues with private pay paying on time, but I had constant issues with SRS parents paying me via their EBT. They would always seem to forget!!!

Yep- All.the.time. I made them pay in advance and refused to take their children if they didn't pay- so most of the time they just end up not bringing their child (even after they enroll) or never come back after the subsidy for the month runs out. I very rarely get subsidy parents now even though I accept them and lots interview because they don't want to pay in cash until the subsidy is approved, and they don't want to pay when the subsidy runs out for the month.

[JoseyJo]

Utah has been doing this for years now. I love it. I go to a web site at the end of each month and check that funds are authorized for the next month. It tells me exactly how much. It offers third party access, which I require all state funded parents to give me. If no funds are on the card, it tells me why. If the parents hasn't turned in all the right paperwork, it tells me. No stories from the mom.

So no bad surprises on the first and no excuses possible from the mom. No funds...no care....so better get their paperwork done.

On the first of each month, funds are pulled off the card and I am paid in advance for that month. Love it.

That would be GREAT if KS did that! We cannot see how much they are approved for (can't call and ask either "parent confidentiality"), def can't see why they weren't approved, can't see if the money is actually on the card, and can't even see the payment until 24-48 hours after it is made...

[Heidi]

That would be GREAT if KS did that! We cannot see how much they are approved for (can't call and ask either "parent confidentiality"), def can't see why they weren't approved, can't see if the money is actually on the card, and can't even see the payment until 24-48 hours after it is made...

Utah has been doing this for years now. I love it. I go to a web site at the end of each month and check that funds are authorized for the next month. It tells me exactly how much. It offers third party access, which I require all state funded parents to give me. If no funds are on the card, it tells me why. If the parents hasn't turned in all the right paperwork, it tells me. No stories from the mom.

So no bad surprises on the first and no excuses possible from the mom. No funds...no care....so better get their paperwork done.

On the first of each month, funds are pulled off the card and I am paid in advance for that month. Love it.

BC and I were just talking about this. At this time, WI will NOT tell a provider anything. Used to be you could at least talk to a caseworker, and they'd sort of hint around but not say anything directly...so you knew what's what.
Now, you can't even get them to take your call. They direct you to a 1-800 number that's farmed out, and those people tell you NUTHIN!

I don't know why it would be so hard to have a parent sign off on giving their provider certain info. Confirming an authorization in progress, stating the parent has turned in their paperwork, etc. They don't have to give out details, but why make it adversarial? We are providing a service to parents and the state (presumably to keep people working and off welfare). Why is that a bad thing?

[Unregistered]

I guess I am not "getting" the point?

The state is going to give them EBT cards verses just issuing a check to you (the provider)?

It says the benefits are that parents can choose their own provider and can have a closer relationship.... can't they do that already?

Maybe it's too early in the morning but I don't see how this "fixes" anything.

Whether they get funds on an EBT card to pay for care or have payment sent directly to provider from state has no benefit or con either way...

Do you have any other details or "why" they want to do this?

In CO they SWIPE a "badge" type card (not EBT) when they log in and out for each day. The theory is if they're having to swipe in, there is less chance for fraud since it "validates" the parent really was at the daycare and swiped in/out each day he/she was actually logged in.

[craftymissbeth]

In CO they SWIPE a "badge" type card (not EBT) when they log in and out for each day. The theory is if they're having to swipe in, there is less chance for fraud since it "validates" the parent really was at the daycare and swiped in/out each day he/she was actually logged in.

Or the provider keeps the card at her house and takes care of the swiping for them. No need to get out of the house for you fraudulent activities

[Meeko]

So, Meeko, can you answer some questions? My understanding is that WI is looking at Utah for some direction on this.

Do they pay all the providers the same, according the the parents income?

Ours is set up by regions (how close to a major city, basically), by provider "star" level, by regulation level, and by center/family care. They also pay centers on enrollment...for the spot, and family only by attendance.

Do they figure the amount the parent is eligible for the same way they did before the cards? Hours worked x pay means you get x $? Like food stamps (WI uses EBT for that).

The state figures out parent pay/hours etc with their magic formulas

I don't care either way, as we are allowed to charge what we want and the parent has to make up any difference.

Licensed providers get paid a bit more than residential certificate...not quite as much as a center.

On the whole. it's a good system. Parents can pay over the phone, online or using a POS swipe machine. The machines to swipe the card cost a fee each month and so I don't use one. I only have one welfare client right now. She does the transfer over the phone and then gives me the confirmation number. The money is in my account within a couple days without fail.

The parent calls the number on their card. it's all automated. Tells her what her daycare amount is. Asks if she wants to make a transfer. Asks for my transfer ID number (issued by the state). Asks her how much to transfer....gives her a confirmation number......which she gives to me......done.

[Meeko]

BC and I were just talking about this. At this time, WI will NOT tell a provider anything. Used to be you could at least talk to a caseworker, and they'd sort of hint around but not say anything directly...so you knew what's what.
Now, you can't even get them to take your call. They direct you to a 1-800 number that's farmed out, and those people tell you NUTHIN!

I don't know why it would be so hard to have a parent sign off on giving their provider certain info. Confirming an authorization in progress, stating the parent has turned in their paperwork, etc. They don't have to give out details, but why make it adversarial? We are providing a service to parents and the state (presumably to keep people working and off welfare). Why is that a bad thing?

We used to get the "privacy" thing too. I would get frustrated with the case workers and say "so I'm not entitled to know if the money set aside FOR ME is actually there???"........it was so silly.

The parent has an option on their account to allow access to their provider. We can only see daycare related info...so nothing about their food stamps etc.

I won't take a state client unless they agree to grant me access. Past history has been full of stories/excuses etc.

Parents here re-certify every 6 months unless their situation changes a lot. I know when their re-certification is due and can keep track online to make sure all paperwork is in and approved.