Please..Deal With Your Child. Am I Wrong?

[daycaremum]

JoseyJo.
I would say you are jaded.
I often have talks with children before or after an event when they are calm about how they are expected to behave in that certain situation. Perhaps for this child roll playing would be effective. You just never know.

[JoseyJo]

JoseyJo.
I would say you are jaded.
I often have talks with children before or after an event when they are calm about how they are expected to behave in that certain situation. Perhaps for this child roll playing would be effective. You just never know.

LOL! Good to have it affirmed

IMO this child needs a strong leader, not to be coddled and convinced.

[Unregistered]

I am the one who posted the play it out suggestion. I have 12 years of childcare experience, and 19 years of motherhood experience. So I am suggesting what has worked for me.

[Heidi]

LOL! Good to have it affirmed

IMO this child needs a strong leader, not to be coddled and convinced.

JoseyJo.
I would say you are jaded.
I often have talks with children before or after an event when they are calm about how they are expected to behave in that certain situation. Perhaps for this child roll playing would be effective. You just never know.

Something I have done with children is to play act a difficult situation with a doll or stuffed animal. Give him a teddy bear or something during playtime, and ask him to help teddy get ready to go home. It works with the bears that have clothes, you know, the ones from the mall store. Or if you have a doll with a jacket for burgeoning, zipping tying practice, that will work. After teddy or dolly gets ready, ask him what does teddy do now ? Teddy gets into the car with mommy and goes home. Explain how important it is to have Teddy bear get ready to go home . How much fun teddy bear had. Sing a goodbye song, sing the same song while dcb gets ready to go home. I hate to disagree with Nanny D, but having one child in the car while mom comes back for the other seems like a liability if something should happen. It isn't too safe. Mom should leave with both, maybe sister can be a " helper" at the end of the day, and help Dcb sing the goodbye song. There are many different ways to help him transition.

I'm going to go with the middle here. The idea of doing some preplanning with dcb is not a bad one. It may make it easier on everyone. But, the problem really isn't that he can't get dressed with assistance. The problem is HE DOESN'T WANT TO. You can respect children as people without coddling them. They do have to know that there is not always a choice.

My ECE class recently had us read an article promoting democracy in the classroom. I am a family childcare provider (like OP). This is NOT a democracy. It is a benevolent dictatorship. I respect the children's individual personalities and feelings, and I'll pick my battles, but I am THE leader.

As for the liability of the 4 year old. She is the child's mother. There is no "liability". She needs to take charge of both her children. If the car is parked 10 feet away, 4 year old is buckled in her car seat, and she stays outside the house, I don't see a safety issue.

[nannyde]

Maybe I am very very jaded, but this post made me laugh out loud! To me this sounds like either a CDA student right out of school... I can't imagine this provider has ever dealt with a child like the one described by the OP.

The problem is that the role playing and teaching the child about transitions isn't the problem. He's two. I don't know how two he is but by two he should COMPLETELY understand how to get ready, clean up, and follow directions from the adult. I have infants under one who can do this. He's WAY WAY WAY too old to need an education about transitioning.

I could be wrong but my guess is that the real escalator here is the fact that this family has two children with two slots in the day care. The provider doesn't want to upset the parent because she doesn't want to loose the income of two kids.

EVERYONE knows this. The Mom knows it. The four year old knows it. The two year old knows it. They ALL know it because they see the provider change her behavior during this time to accommodate and make it look like all is well.

That's bad for everyone. The Mom, four year old, and two year old need to get with the program and know that while on the providers property they ALL need to BEHAVE.

The four year old needs to mind her own beeswax and quit telling the adult what to do. She doesn't get to get by with interjecting herself and her opinion into this. She needs to follow directions and sit quietly until it's time for her to go outside.

The Mom needs to respect that she is on the soil of another adult who does not like witnessing much less hosting her two year old behaving like a little animal. She needs to have RESPECT for the adult. She needs to get ugly with that kid and get him to KNOCK IT OFF. If they want to play like that at home that's between them and Jesus. If they are out in public they need to behave. The provider is off the clock the second the mom hits the property. The Mom needs to get her kids out the door and get them OUT of the driveway asap.

Since these kids are the last out the door the provider needs to get the older one out... shut the door... go SUPER strict with the two year old and lay the law down. Hand walk him to Mom outside and hand his hand into her hand. Let the Mom know that under NO circumstances is she to let go of him until she has him BUCKLED in the seat. He is not to step away from the car. If she allows him to walk away from the car then she will no longer be allowed the privledge of picking up in the driveway. He will have to be taken to the street. Once his feet are OFF of the provider property she is DONE DONE DONE. If the Mom allows him to go back onto the property then she is liable for anything that happens like she would be if he went to raise hell on anyone elses property.

This kid will enjoy the play acting and it may be interesting enough to be entertained with it for a few days but because transitions are not the problem it will be a mere distraction. He wants to start home behavior as soon as he can. He wants to start the change in provider behavior as soon as he can. He wants mom on site so he can act like an animal. He understands exactly what the provider wants as she is doing like things with him all day. He is just saying no to it. That's the problem.. not him understanding.

I'm not opposed to the technique of play acting. It will be an activity. You can color it... play doh it... sing it... exercise it... same difference.

[JoseyJo]

This is NOT a democracy. It is a benevolent dictatorship. I respect the children's individual personalities and feelings, and I'll pick my battles, but I am THE leader.

Couldn't have said it better myself

I am all for roleplaying with a young, new, or inexperienced child. That is NOT this child. This child knows what is expected and is refusing to do so.

[Cradle2crayons]

I'm going to go with the middle here. The idea of doing some preplanning with dcb is not a bad one. It may make it easier on everyone. But, the problem really isn't that he can't get dressed with assistance. The problem is HE DOESN'T WANT TO. You can respect children as people without coddling them. They do have to know that there is not always a choice.

My ECE class recently had us read an article promoting democracy in the classroom. I am a family childcare provider (like OP). This is NOT a democracy. It is a benevolent dictatorship. I respect the children's individual personalities and feelings, and I'll pick my battles, but I am THE leader.

As for the liability of the 4 year old. She is the child's mother. There is no "liability". She needs to take charge of both her children. If the car is parked 10 feet away, 4 year old is buckled in her car seat, and she stays outside the house, I don't see a safety issue.

The problem is that the role playing and teaching the child about transitions isn't the problem. He's two. I don't know how two he is but by two he should COMPLETELY understand how to get ready, clean up, and follow directions from the adult. I have infants under one who can do this. He's WAY WAY WAY too old to need an education about transitioning.

I could be wrong but my guess is that the real escalator here is the fact that this family has two children with two slots in the day care. The provider doesn't want to upset the parent because she doesn't want to loose the income of two kids.

EVERYONE knows this. The Mom knows it. The four year old knows it. The two year old knows it. They ALL know it because they see the provider change her behavior during this time to accommodate and make it look like all is well.

That's bad for everyone. The Mom, four year old, and two year old need to get with the program and know that while on the providers property they ALL need to BEHAVE.

The four year old needs to mind her own beeswax and quit telling the adult what to do. She doesn't get to get by with interjecting herself and her opinion into this. She needs to follow directions and sit quietly until it's time for her to go outside.

The Mom needs to respect that she is on the soil of another adult who does not like witnessing much less hosting her two year old behaving like a little animal. She needs to have RESPECT for the adult. She needs to get ugly with that kid and get him to KNOCK IT OFF. If they want to play like that at home that's between them and Jesus. If they are out in public they need to behave. The provider is off the clock the second the mom hits the property. The Mom needs to get her kids out the door and get them OUT of the driveway asap.

Since these kids are the last out the door the provider needs to get the older one out... shut the door... go SUPER strict with the two year old and lay the law down. Hand walk him to Mom outside and hand his hand into her hand. Let the Mom know that under NO circumstances is she to let go of him until she has him BUCKLED in the seat. He is not to step away from the car. If she allows him to walk away from the car then she will no longer be allowed the privledge of picking up in the driveway. He will have to be taken to the street. Once his feet are OFF of the provider property she is DONE DONE DONE. If the Mom allows him to go back onto the property then she is liable for anything that happens like she would be if he went to raise hell on anyone elses property.

This kid will enjoy the play acting and it may be interesting enough to be entertained with it for a few days but because transitions are not the problem it will be a mere distraction. He wants to start home behavior as soon as he can. He wants to start the change in provider behavior as soon as he can. He wants mom on site so he can act like an animal. He understands exactly what the provider wants as she is doing like things with him all day. He is just saying no to it. That's the problem.. not him understanding.

I'm not opposed to the technique of play acting. It will be an activity. You can color it... play doh it... sing it... exercise it... same difference.

Couldn't have said it better myself

I am all for roleplaying with a young, new, or inexperienced child. That is NOT this child. This child knows what is expected and is refusing to do so.

LOL! Good to have it affirmed

IMO this child needs a strong leader, not to be coddled and convinced.

lovethislovethis and can we get an amen!! Sorry I'm Ina. Weird mood today. I spent twenty minutes out in the rabbit pen chasing a stubborn buck who refuses to stay in his pen. I frisked him but I didn't find a screwdriver anywhere. He didn't get the memo. ITS FREAKIN COLD AND WET .

[Heidi]

speaking of safety issues...OT...sorry

When I was 49 (little sis was 3), mom left us in the car while she ran into the bank.

I decided to do a little dramatic play activity. No seat belts or car seats in 1968, so, I sat behind the wheel, sis in the passenger seat, and went "vroom vroom". Fine, until I put the car in reverse.

Mom and the bank teller stood in the window watching as we rolled backwards through the parking lot in slow motion, frozen like deer in the head lights.

Thankfully, both the car and the other one were those big boats, and no real damage was done.

[Heidi]

Couldn't have said it better myself

I am all for roleplaying with a young, new, or inexperienced child. That is NOT this child. This child knows what is expected and is refusing to do so.

As I am working on my ECE degree, I am actually feeling more and more strongly that there is a certain amount of hogwash involved.

They went from teaching warm, respectful interactions to using constant redirection (I call that smoke-and-mirrors), giving children too many choices, and avoiding the word "NO" at all costs. Do I ever redirect a child? Sure. A crawling infant..."Play with toys" ( Offer toys vs. my Christmas Tree). When we were little, we got slapped on the hands a couple times, and we kept our fingers off the Christmas tree. That's not really necessary.

But, once they are 2ish, though, I think it's kind of dishonest to constantly redirect. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's not even developmentally appropriate anymore. Gradually, they need to be told the truth...gently. I had a mom of 4 that was still redirecting her almost 5 year old. HE WASN'T THAT STUPID...hence the constant temper tantrums. He'd never learned the concept of "NO means NO!"

[Blackcat31]

speaking of safety issues...OT...sorry

When I was 49 (little sis was 3), mom left us in the car while she ran into the bank.
I decided to do a little dramatic play activity. No seat belts or car seats in 1968, so, I sat behind the wheel, sis in the passenger seat, and went "vroom vroom". Fine, until I put the car in reverse.

Mom and the bank teller stood in the window watching as we rolled backwards through the parking lot in slow motion, frozen like deer in the head lights.

Thankfully, both the car and the other one were those big boats, and no real damage was done.

Sheesh, and to think someone at 49 would know better than to mess with the car when their mom told them not too!

[Play Care]

Sheesh, and to think someone at 49 would know better than to mess with the car when their mom told them not too!

::::::

[JoseyJo]

Gradually, they need to be told the truth...gently. I had a mom of 4 that was still redirecting her almost 5 year old. HE WASN'T THAT STUPID...hence the constant temper tantrums. He'd never learned the concept of "NO means NO!"

Yes! I have a 5 yo in my care who is just like this. DCM treats DCB like an 18 mo so he acts like one. DCD treats DCB like a 5 yo so he acts like a 5 yo when dad is around.

[Angelsj]

I'm going to go with the middle here. The idea of doing some preplanning with dcb is not a bad one. It may make it easier on everyone. But, the problem really isn't that he can't get dressed with assistance. The problem is HE DOESN'T WANT TO. You can respect children as people without coddling them. They do have to know that there is not always a choice.

My ECE class recently had us read an article promoting democracy in the classroom. I am a family childcare provider (like OP). This is NOT a democracy. It is a benevolent dictatorship. I respect the children's individual personalities and feelings, and I'll pick my battles, but I am THE leader.

As for the liability of the 4 year old. She is the child's mother. There is no "liability". She needs to take charge of both her children. If the car is parked 10 feet away, 4 year old is buckled in her car seat, and she stays outside the house, I don't see a safety issue.

I would balance in the middle here as well. I don't have a problem with explaining to this kid how things are going to go. Lay it out and practice it. Not sure we need a teddy bear, but I do think he needs a clear picture what is going to happen and what is NOT going to happen.

I do think you need to be the one to do it, and I do agree with making mom aware that she is causing these issues and it needs to stop. She is being disrespectful all the way around.
I am not sure I agree that a two year old should have all this down pat, though. He is confused. Sometimes he gets to act like a heathen. Sometimes he doesn't. He is checking things out. He just needs things explained about how things are going to be in YOUR house. Then enforce it. Clearly.

I do agree with nannyde on the older one. Call her out in front of her mom and make it clear that is unacceptable. She does not get to accuse you of hurting her brother, and if it happens again, they will need new care.

[Heidi]

Sheesh, and to think someone at 49 would know better than to mess with the car when their mom told them not too!

he he....4! I meant 4!

[daycarediva]

As I am working on my ECE degree, I am actually feeling more and more strongly that there is a certain amount of hogwash involved.

They went from teaching warm, respectful interactions to using constant redirection (I call that smoke-and-mirrors), giving children too many choices, and avoiding the word "NO" at all costs. Do I ever redirect a child? Sure. A crawling infant..."Play with toys" ( Offer toys vs. my Christmas Tree). When we were little, we got slapped on the hands a couple times, and we kept our fingers off the Christmas tree. That's not really necessary.

But, once they are 2ish, though, I think it's kind of dishonest to constantly redirect. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's not even developmentally appropriate anymore. Gradually, they need to be told the truth...gently. I had a mom of 4 that was still redirecting her almost 5 year old. HE WASN'T THAT STUPID...hence the constant temper tantrums. He'd never learned the concept of "NO means NO!"

I could not have said it better myself! I a going for my bachelors and I am already sick of professors with a degree, with ZERO kids of their own, with ZERO classroom/hands on experience TELLING ME how a 3yo cannot understand multi step directions or UNDERSTAND the behavioral expectations at home vs daycare (or church vs playground). Then I have a bunch of geniuses because my kids tell ME multistep directions and tell each other the rules. They also get told NO as often as necessary.