Knock It Off, Dad!

[Blackcat31]

You ladies are unbelievable sometimes... Seriously!

Unbelievable how?
Because we are concerned about unsafe practices?
Because we are willing to go above and beyond to ensure the safety of other people's kids.
Because we do MORE than just what the state says we have to?

I guess I am not getting why you are having an issue with any of this.
No one is directing anything to you specifically nor saying "OMG TwinKristie you are so wrong!"

Providers are discussing ways to be as safe as we can.
Providers are sharing things they know about liability and safe sleep practices.

If you are taking this personally, that's on you because I havent posted a single reply directed AT you or anything you've said.

You are right though, many providers feel strongly about this topic so I am sure it will continue to be discussed. Whether you agree or disagree is moot.

Do what YOU feel comfortable doing.

I think this thread is full of VERY valuable info for those that want it.
You don't have to participate in a discussion you dont agree with.

[craftymissbeth]

Twinkristie -

http://www.healthychildren.org/english/ages-stages/baby/sleep/pages/preventing-sids.aspx

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/GeneralPediatrics/6199

There are many, many other articles out there. I HIGHLY suggest you educate yourself. Not only is the risk of positional asphyxiation present, so is the risk of SIDS. And even if you are HOLDING a baby they can still die from SIDS... in your arms! Do what you want with your own children, but do not risk the lives of other peoples children. I am absolutely appalled by your lack of concern on this issue...

Sorry that this is coming off so harshly, but my nephew died from SIDS and it makes me sick to my stomach that there still people out there that don't follow safe sleep practices 100% of the time... especially with other peoples children. You are NEVER the same after you bury a baby

[sharlan]

Twinkristie -

http://www.healthychildren.org/english/ages-stages/baby/sleep/pages/preventing-sids.aspx

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/GeneralPediatrics/6199

There are many, many other articles out there. I HIGHLY suggest you educate yourself. Not only is the risk of positional asphyxiation present, so is the risk of SIDS. And even if you are HOLDING a baby they can still die from SIDS... in your arms! Do what you want with your own children, but do not risk the lives of other peoples children. I am absolutely appalled by your lack of concern on this issue...

Sorry that this is coming off so harshly, but my nephew died from SIDS and it makes me sick to my stomach that there still people out there that don't follow safe sleep practices 100% of the time... especially with other peoples children. You are NEVER the same after you bury a baby

There is a member here who lost a child to SIDS while under the care of a provider. Learning from each other is a beneficial part of this forum.

[TwinKristi]

Let me clear something up first and foremost that seems to be ASSUMED by those of you replying so negatively.

First, I never have allowed babies to routinely sleep in carseats except when driving, which with childcare has never been more than 45 mins roundtrip.

Second, I have never allowed a baby to sleep unsafely in my care. I don't need to "educate myself" on SIDS or positional asphyxia as I have no need. I don't allow babies to sleep unsafely in my care! My own son is almost 2. I have done enough research over the last 17 years as a parent, and will continue to maintain updated on AAP recommendations, but I know plenty about SIDS and safe sleeping habits.

Third, what I do or don't do with my own children has no baring on my childcare. Being a parent and being a childcare provider are not the same and anecdotal parenting stories and what I do as a provider are two totally different things. As a parent I can smack my child's hand for touching something they shouldn't but I could/would never do that to a daycare child as it's not my place.

Fourth, some of you ladies ARE truly unbelievable. YES. I said it! I have learned many interesting and awesome things on this forum, I have saved several files, gained knowledge from those with many more years of experience than I have, but I have also seen some truly catty and straight up bitchy behavior. It's the teenage mob mentality. One person says something nasty and suddenly everyone has the courage to agree and reply but by themselves they wouldn't do that. Not to mention the whole "keyboard courage" I think many of you have as well. The comments like "Oh title 22 doesn't say kids can't jump off the roof" or "there's no law about cutting grapes in half" crap is just rude. Plain and simple. I'm not stupid.

I don't come on here to have people agree with me. I'm not rallying troops for my defense. While I may be a new member here, I'm not a new member to childcare and have worked in both small and large settings. I have been on the other end of the table as a daycare parent as well. But for anyone to insinuate or accuse me of endangering children/babies is just uncalled for. Me telling the OP that I follow the rule of never waking a sleeping baby did NOT mean I allow infants to just sleep in their infant seats all day in random places around my home. I was trying to be supportive and understanding of the OP. Just like the shower thread, or being legally unlicensed, this has turned into what is and isn't ok for each of us as individual providers, what is ok and legal in Iowa is not the same in Oregon or Texas and vice versa. There are some seriously crappy providers out there who DO endanger children. My own children have been victim of that and I take major offense to anyone even comparing me to anything of the sort. Statistically speaking, a 7 month old asleep in a carseat next to a provider for an hour is less likely to die of SIDS or positional asphyxiation than a 3 month left alone to sleep in a crib. Plain and simple. Babies are about 5x more likely to die in the first 6 months of life from SIDS than in the second 6 months of life. THAT was my point. At 7 mos they've surpassed the prime danger zone. And like the link someone so kindly added, the BIGGEST cause of death in these positional asphyxiation infant deaths had to do with LACK OF SUPERVISION and lack of proper restraints. They were left alone or to sleep in an unsafe place, unsecured. That's hardly comparable to a provider allowing a baby to sleep right next to her for a short period of time. I can understand if it's illegal in your state. By all means, follow the law!
I don't disagree with not allowing babies to sleep in a carseat which is what everyone keeps saying. I don't disagree. But I also don't disagree with what the OP did! Had she said she pops the baby in a crib in the carseat and goes to enjoy her coffee in the kitchen until other kids arrive I may disagree.
This really didn't have to turn out like this. But for some reason some of you feel the need to "school" me as if I have no idea what I'm doing. It's rude and uncalled for. I never said I practiced unsafe sleeping habits so I'm not sure why there was such a huge uproar! Or maybe is it because I didn't agree with the majority?? Hmmm, seems more likely!

[craftymissbeth]

Normally on this forum if someone disagrees with another user it's fine... no biggie... just move on. But when it comes to someone telling another user their opinion as if it's fact regarding unsafe practices, yes, some of us jump at the opportunity to correct. Some of us look the other way and simply say "do as you feel comfortable".

The reality is, even if the risk of something happening to a 7 month old vs a newborn is lower does NOT mean the risk is not there. The fact that you have convinced yourself that allowing a child to sleep in a car seat for an hour or so is ok as long as they are older than 6 months and it's not a routine thing does show your ignorance on this issue... so, yes, I truly encourage you to educate yourself deeper. And not just by reading facts and studies. Try reading some experience stories written by those who have lost their child or family member to SIDS or positional asphyxiation. The "it won't happen to me" mind set is dangerous.

BTW, no one said anything about your children. I even specifically said to do as you please with your own children, but not the children of others.

[TwinKristi]

Normally on this forum if someone disagrees with another user it's fine... no biggie... just move on. But when it comes to someone telling another user their opinion as if it's fact regarding unsafe practices, yes, some of us jump at the opportunity to correct. Some of us look the other way and simply say "do as you feel comfortable".

The reality is, even if the risk of something happening to a 7 month old vs a newborn is lower does NOT mean the risk is not there. The fact that you have convinced yourself that allowing a child to sleep in a car seat for an hour or so is ok as long as they are older than 6 months and it's not a routine thing does show your ignorance on this issue... so, yes, I truly encourage you to educate yourself deeper. And not just by reading facts and studies. Try reading some experience stories written by those who have lost their child or family member to SIDS or positional asphyxiation. The "it won't happen to me" mind set is dangerous.

BTW, no one said anything about your children. I even specifically said to do as you please with your own children, but not the children of others.

:: more assuming?!? When did I state anything as fact and not agree to disagree? I just told you I don't leave babies in car seats, where is the risk and ignorance?? I didn't even do this, so simply because I don't disagree I am somehow now some ignorant person? And why do you assume I don't know anyone who's lost a child to SIDS or even read people's experience? How presumptuous of you. There is no it won't happen to me mindset because I didn't do it!!! You are assuming a lot about this and it's completely untrue.

[craftymissbeth]

:: more assuming?!? When did I state anything as fact and not agree to disagree? I just told you I don't leave babies in car seats, where is the risk and ignorance?? I didn't even do this, so simply because I don't disagree I am somehow now some ignorant person? And why do you assume I don't know anyone who's lost a child to SIDS or even read people's experience? How presumptuous of you. There is no it won't happen to me mindset because I didn't do it!!! You are assuming a lot about this and it's completely untrue.

Stick a fork in me. I am DONE

[Josiegirl]

This whole thread has been very enlightening and I've learned a lot. I haven't had an infant in several years but will keep this new-found knowledge upfront with my next one. I was always of the 'never wake a sleeping baby' camp but after reading some of the links, etc. I will change my ways.
Off to check out what my regs. say about this, too, because I must have missed it or it's not covered.

[Angelsj]

This whole thread has been very enlightening and I've learned a lot. I haven't had an infant in several years but will keep this new-found knowledge upfront with my next one. I was always of the 'never wake a sleeping baby' camp but after reading some of the links, etc. I will change my ways.
Off to check out what my regs. say about this, too, because I must have missed it or it's not covered.

I am still in the don't wake a sleeping baby camp, but I do see the point of doing a check. I just unwrap her very slowly and gently so she only barely stirs, and slip her into bed. If anything were to be amiss (a bruise or bump) maybe I would not, but I am not going to fully wake her right now.
I think some things can get a little over regulated or over policy-ed. Having a policy that cannot adapt to a child at least a little bit makes me cringe. It is one thing to follow regulations, another to have all these hard lined policies that cannot give.

[Unregistered]

Absolutely a 7 month old or even older could die from this. I would never risk their safety, and I'm surprised you are being so nonchalant about this...

This is just one of MANY articles.

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf

Here is the thing. Kids/infants can die from ANYTHING. They can die laying down, being on their sides, being in a seat, being in a playpen, from a drop-side crib, from toys, from everything. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. The reality is that in BILLIONS OF kids, it doesn't happen often enough to be "causative" so to speak. If 10 kids die a year in a carseat people see that as OMG carseats are dangerous. But when you think of the amount of children that actually exist in that age group that do not die from the same thing, you realize that it's kind of a case-by-case thing. It's not that it's automatically dangerous. For my kids, it was a MUST that they slept in their swing/carseats. For their safety. It's case-by-case. She's not being nonchalant, she's being realistic.


CIP: My family used and passed down a drop down crib for generations. Not one of our children died. We also knew how to properly put it together. The kids taht DID die in the drop side cribs (and ended up banning them altogether) died due to negligence on the parent's part or some sort of mfr defect. When you use something someone else made, you risk that, drop side crib or regular crib or carseat or couch or high chair: Doesn't matter what it is. You take an inherent risk by nature that people are human and machines break and sometimes, people try to sell things with cheap materials. Then you have human error that attribute to things like the drop side crib threat. It has nothing to do with the actual crib itself being dangerous.

If a baby is in the carseat in the car, and you take an hour trip, seriously , you can't just pull off on the freeway to "check" every single time because then you risk your and your child's life being in a dangerous spot on the road.

EVERYTHING you do is a risk and you can't bubble the child forever; taking the child out of a carseat the second they arrive is extreme.

Extreme doesn't get anyone anywhere, honestly, and just makes people paranoid. I was in child care 12 years and some of the new things that have come up...I don't think I could hold a license anymore because the rules are so extreme and unrealistic that it's just inhibiting people from providing NORMAL care anymore. It's just not worth the headaches or the paranoia in my book.

And you know, i just thought of something: Our parents seem to be more paranoid than ever these days......It's probably all the hype they read from the news.

[Unregistered]

I never heard that and my own kids HAD to sleep in a seat due to apnea issues. IDK how weird that now they're saying you can't do that???? I can't imagine what kind of liability it would cause?

It has been a number of years since I first opened but I remember shortly after reading about a case where a child was dropped off deceased or nearly deceased in a car seat. Provider believed child to be sleeping and left child be. I don't remember the outcome, but as you can imagine it turned the providers life upside down having to prove this was not of her doing. I remember reading of people taking courses where they were advised not to accept a sleeping child into care without waking them before the parents left to verify there were ok. I forget the exact details, but believe it had something to do with shaken baby or SIDS. Parents panicked and felt dropping child off at daycare would have the possible consequences fall elsewhere.

This isn't the case I was thinking of, but I would not want my family to go through this:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-06-baby-sitter-freed_N.htm

[dingledine]

I understand you being annoyed. Even if child came here asleep in a seat, I'd have to gently take them out, and lay them down in a crib, which would probably awaken them.