Vaccinations

[Angelsj]

There are millions of parents in this country right now not vaccinating their children because they believe that will protect them from ever ending up with autism. The blinders are on, the vast majority are looking in only one (and in my opinion misguided) direction.

See, this isn't my experience. I see a lot of media coverage on this idea, and I hear this a lot, but I am involved with a LOT of non-vaccinating parents, and this is just not the case.
I will grant you, I do not know ALL of the non-vaccinating parents out there, mostly just the more active ones, but they are NOT trying to protect their children from autism. As a matter of fact, most of them would be the first in line to tell you they do NOT believe vaccines are a direct cause of autism at all, often because they recognized signs that their child/children different prior to any vaccinations, if they vaccinate at all.
Many of them are the most educated (vaccine wise) people you have ever met. They have done the research, and they question both the safety (overall) and the efficacy of vaccinations. Many of them also question how and where they are made, the necessity of some of the components, and a variety of other issues that have ZERO to do with autism.

I just don't see these mislead, confused, ignorant people that we are being told all these "non vaccinating" parents are. They may be out there, but I do not see them.

[Willow]

See, this isn't my experience. I see a lot of media coverage on this idea, and I hear this a lot, but I am involved with a LOT of non-vaccinating parents, and this is just not the case.
I will grant you, I do not know ALL of the non-vaccinating parents out there, mostly just the more active ones, but they are NOT trying to protect their children from autism. As a matter of fact, most of them would be the first in line to tell you they do NOT believe vaccines are a direct cause of autism at all, often because they recognized signs that their child/children different prior to any vaccinations, if they vaccinate at all.
Many of them are the most educated (vaccine wise) people you have ever met. They have done the research, and they question both the safety (overall) and the efficacy of vaccinations. Many of them also question how and where they are made, the necessity of some of the components, and a variety of other issues that have ZERO to do with autism.

I just don't see these mislead, confused, ignorant people that we are being told all these "non vaccinating" parents are. They may be out there, but I do not see them.

I'm not at all saying non vaxing parents are misled, confused or ignorant. But there are plenty of large scale studies supporting that it happens with equal prevalence on both sides of the fence (some even going so far as to prove it occurs more frequently in non vaxed children). These are studies done not just on children in the United States but worldwide and thats why I've drawn the conclusion that vaccines are not any kind of catalyst. There have to be other factors and I wish there was more research in every other direction possible.

If you ask parents in this country, today, their main concern with vaccinations is the purported and fraudulent link to autism. Heck, look at how this thread began. That one concern and one concern alone is so typical it makes my head spin. I personally believe any link between the two has been dispelled, the dangers of reaction have already been proven, now lets move on in different directions kwim? We're stuck in the vaccines cause autism rut, how about exploring other factors that may ACTUALLY be causing it, triggering it, exacerbating it so these families dealing with it today can have some answers and famikies in the future can have some real means of protection.

[Willow]

A fantastic link to credible, widespread, and very conclusive studies that dispell any concerns regarding a link to autism, thimerosal, amount of injections given at one time etc.

Not media hype. Not internet forum opinions. Actual unbiased information parents can use to make an solid decision on which direction to take their own child.

http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

[Angelsj]

I'm not at all saying non vaxing parents are misled, confused or ignorant. But there are plenty of large scale studies supporting that it happens with equal prevalence on both sides of the fence (some even going so far as to prove it occurs more frequently in non vaxed children). These are studies done not just on children in the United States but worldwide and thats why I've drawn the conclusion that vaccines are not any kind of catalyst. There have to be other factors and I wish there was more research in every other direction possible.

If you ask parents in this country, today, their main concern with vaccinations is the purported and fraudulent link to autism. Heck, look at how this thread began. That one concern and one concern alone is so typical it makes my head spin. I personally believe any link between the two has been dispelled, the dangers of reaction have already been proven, now lets move on in different directions kwim? We're stuck in the vaccines cause autism rut, how about exploring other factors that may ACTUALLY be causing it, triggering it, exacerbating it so these families dealing with it today can have some answers and famikies in the future can have some real means of protection.

I have four children on the spectrum, so yes, I would like to see more and more research on the subject.
However, I would ask for an evidenced based peer reviewed study (from any country you like) that actually backs up that statement.

[Willow]

I have four children on the spectrum, so yes, I would like to see more and more research on the subject.
However, I would ask for an evidenced based peer reviewed study (from any country you like) that actually backs up that statement.

See the link right above your post, it cites MANY.

[Angelsj]

No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines.

From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.

[Cradle2crayons]

From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.

I'm interested in that also. Mainly because I'd think there are more vaxed than not vaxed so I don't see how it's possible more unvaxed kids have autism.

But one thing I do know, my daughter had NO signs of autism or any of her abbreviations before the reaction she had to the MMR. That, is a fact.

[Willow]

From your page...and specifically what I was interested in. For the record, I am not using a challenging tone. I am interested in ALL research along these lines, from ALL sides. I have never heard of a study that claimed that unvaccinated children had a HIGHER incidence of autism than vaccinated children.
That is what I was interested in finding a study for specifically.

I don't take your tone as challenging, and have no qualms with the back and forth we've had

I thought that link had a link within it that addressed the prevalence compared.....hang on.



(FTR though, true research should never come from any "side" )

[Willow]

Bah! I can't find a link to exactly what I'm looking for...... This is close, cant find a link to it being available to the public but the study referenced here sounds very much like what I remember running across:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-perils-and-pitfalls-of-doing-a-vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated-study/

Get past all the blah blah biased stuff that'll probably tick you off and you'll hit a blip about "One study published in Pediatrics in 2004 found that".....

It concluded environmental factors, poverty level especially, effect prevalence. Un/under vaccinated children often live below poverty level (not all, there is obviously a population of unvaccinated children who's parents make that choice because they are higher educated than norm and live quite well).

Basically this:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/indicator/2013/01/poverty-behaviors.aspx

Because I'm struggling to find the words to clip together - socioeconomic factors typically effect access to healthcare in general, including means to vaccinate, and that can and does influence prevalence of neurobehavioral disorders.




So just because you and people you network with are financially stable while making the choice not to vaccinate, many others who don't vaccinate aren't refraining from doing so by choice and YES, those families ARE hit harder by neurological afflictions. That's long since been proven and in regards to many many afflictions.

The non vaxing world doesn't just consist of those doing so by choice. Consider your entire spectrum and you can maybe see where I'm coming from then with my assertions?