Vaccinations

[safechner]

My son had 5 shots at once when he was two months old at check up about two months ago. My doctor told me that FDA have to separate each shots that is why they got 5 shots. Both of my daughters had three shots. One shot had 3 different kind of it inside. FDA changed the rules. He is fine..

Vaccines do not cause autism... If they do then all the kids will get it. That doesnt make any sense to me. All my children go to the same doctor. My oldest daughter has PDD on the Autism Specturm when she was 3 years old. My other daughter didnt have it.

It will be fine, anyways...

[SilverSabre25]

I believe that vaccines CAN cause SOME forms of autism. Or rather, that damage from the vaccines can cause autism-like symptoms, just as severe food intolerances/allergies (gluten and dairy) can do the same thing.

You have to weigh your family's history, your child's history, your personal beliefs, and all the information gleaned from researching both sides to determine whether and which vaccines are safe for you.

Personally, i choose to delay vaccines until my children are over one--this gives the immune system time to develop. By then, the number of vaccines needed has diminished just due to age (a lot of those early ones are only aimed at young babies anyway). I do DTaP and MMR, though MMR not until over 3.

[Willow]

I don't want to start any kind of grumpy debate, but if vaccines *caused* autism then no non vaxed child would ever have it. Obviously, thats not the case. It is as prevalent in vaxed children as non.

Whether or not vaccines can influence onset and severity in a child already set to have it is debatable, but it does not *cause* it and science has long since proved that.


It would be easy to irradicate it if that were the case.

To date science has not been able to pin down ANY cause.

[melilley]

I just posted this question a few days ago and it's interesting to see others opinions on this! My ds gets a high fever EVERY time he gets his vaccinations, and I'm talking 104.8! I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but we have wondered. His doc says that it's not from getting them, but I just think that It's just odd that he gets these temps every time and hasn't ever had one that high any other time!

My 10 yo dd on the other hand, has had all vaccinations and has only been sick (besides a cold) a handful of times.

[Willow]

I just posted this question a few days ago and it's interesting to see others opinions on this! My ds gets a high fever EVERY time he gets his vaccinations, and I'm talking 104.8! I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but we have wondered. His doc says that it's not from getting them, but I just think that It's just odd that he gets these temps every time and hasn't ever had one that high any other time!

My 10 yo dd on the other hand, has had all vaccinations and has only been sick (besides a cold) a handful of times.

It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.

[Cradle2crayons]

It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.

That IS a good point. It's also my understanding that fevers are NORMAL after vaccinations and NOT a signal of allergic or atypical reaction.

I know some of the high fevers do panic parents though.

But it's just like with typical illness, our doctors do NOT want us to treat a fever unless it's bad enough to make the kids feel so bad they don't want to keep themselves hydrated.

For instance. My daughter, when she was little, ran high fevers for EVERYTHING. Even a typical cold would run hers over 103. The docs said only treat them because she would get so lethargic she would nearly refuse to drink at all, risking dehydration. But if it was under 101, she would still drink. The docs said leaving the fever alone generally would result in the virus getting killed off quicker.

Now, my son, on the other hand, has only had one or two fevers in his entire life. Or at least over 100.5. After his shots, he would run one about 99.9 or similar. They never made him feel bad and he acted completely normal. Of course, he's rarely ever been sick either. I can still count on one hand his illnesses total in 5.5 years.

Every child is different but I also can't imagine why a doctor would think that a high fever would be abnormal after shots at all. The point of them IS to elicit an immune response after all.

[melilley]

It's odd your doctor won't acknowledge that the fevers are very likely the direct result of the vaccinations. Fever means the vaccine has effectively introduced the illness and is challenging the immune system. It means the body is creating a memory of sorts on a cellular level, making the body better able, or completely able, to fight off that illness the next time it encounters it.

Many would argue that your child who gets the fevers actually needs vaccines more than your child who has no reactions to them at all. Ones immune system is obviously better equipped to handle those large scale challenges as opposed to the other one who's immune system is weaker, which is evidenced by the elicited response to the exact same challenge. Like muscles, t cell memory in many people, need a "trip to the gym" to stay in tip top shape. For some, maintaining a "buff" physique requires more maintenence than others. It's a good thing you're sending your one childs wimpy, waspy t cell response through the ringer, that'll definitely improve his body's response to all illnesses later in life.

If that makes any sense



Eta. Every time my children got a vaccine we were sent home with an informational sheet describing the illness/disease, vaccination benefits, risks, side effects etc. Every single one discussed fever as a side effect because of the challenge to the immune system, and that was exactly the point. That wasn't my only point of reference as I've researched this topic to death, but my kids' doctors have always openly acknowledged the correlation and never described it as a negative reaction.

His doctor did say that he may get a fever, I just didn't think it would get that high and he did say the high fever was not from the vaccinations, but a virus.

What you said definitely makes sense! I don't know why I didn't think of it this way.

[Angelsj]

I don't want to start any kind of grumpy debate, but if vaccines *caused* autism then no non vaxed child would ever have it. Obviously, thats not the case. It is as prevalent in vaxed children as non.

Whether or not vaccines can influence onset and severity in a child already set to have it is debatable, but it does not *cause* it and science has long since proved that.


It would be easy to irradicate it if that were the case.

To date science has not been able to pin down ANY cause.

We just had this discussion. This is flawed logic. Many diseases/disorders can be "caused" by a variety of things. The exact same disorder can be caused by many, many things, and can act differently in different people. I could give you one hundred examples.

However, this may be a semantics thing. I wonder if things might be clearer if we used "contributed." Perhaps vaccines, in some children, contribute to autism in a way that they do not in other children. Perhaps they do not.

But science has NOT proven anything. So far a link has not been found, or we are not being told about it, but it has NOT be proven to not exist.

[Cradle2crayons]

His doctor did say that he may get a fever, I just didn't think it would get that high and he did say the high fever was not from the vaccinations, but a virus.

What you said definitely makes sense! I don't know why I didn't think of it this way.

It's also interesting that in my experience as a nurse since 1995, doctors will do anything in their power to refuse to acknowledge that a vax caused ANYTHING.

When the seizures started within a week of my daughters MMR, the first doc was so adamant that the seizures and the other symptoms couldn't possibly be related. I got a second opinion and that dr profusely apologized straight up telling me that most docs are told to not acknowledge vax reactions if they don't have to. And in my research, I've found the same thing.

I had a dr I used to work with admit to me the same thing. He said the FDA doesn't mind them reporting reactions to drugs administered but they frowned upon vax reactions being documented. The reasoning is that there is already some controversary around them and the FDA nor doctors wanted more in the media.

As a nurse, most of my years being pediatric, if ant tell you the number of times a dr has reported a high fever after vax as being viral instead of even entertaining the idea it was just a common post vax reaction.

[melilley]

It's also interesting that in my experience as a nurse since 1995, doctors will do anything in their power to refuse to acknowledge that a vax caused ANYTHING.

When the seizures started within a week of my daughters MMR, the first doc was so adamant that the seizures and the other symptoms couldn't possibly be related. I got a second opinion and that dr profusely apologized straight up telling me that most docs are told to not acknowledge vax reactions if they don't have to. And in my research, I've found the same thing.

I had a dr I used to work with admit to me the same thing. He said the FDA doesn't mind them reporting reactions to drugs administered but they frowned upon vax reactions being documented. The reasoning is that there is already some controversary around them and the FDA nor doctors wanted more in the media.

As a nurse, most of my years being pediatric, if ant tell you the number of times a dr has reported a high fever after vax as being viral instead of even entertaining the idea it was just a common post vax reaction.

This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!

[Willow]

We just had this discussion. This is flawed logic. Many diseases/disorders can be "caused" by a variety of things. The exact same disorder can be caused by many, many things, and can act differently in different people. I could give you one hundred examples.

However, this may be a semantics thing. I wonder if things might be clearer if we used "contributed." Perhaps vaccines, in some children, contribute to autism in a way that they do not in other children. Perhaps they do not.

But science has NOT proven anything. So far a link has not been found, or we are not being told about it, but it has NOT be proven to not exist.

Non vaccinated children get autism.

At exactly the same rate if not HIGHER rates than vaccinated children.

That IS DEFINITELY unequivocal proof that vaccines do NOT *cause* autism. As far as the possibility of them being a trigger to a child already predisposed....I've admitted that's not yet been determined but again, nothing has. And if parents are going to buy the propaganda that vaccines are to blame for triggering, what sort of answers does that offer parents of non vaxed autistic children?

If everyone hollars STOP! Don't vaccinate your children or it *could* trigger a "possible predisposition" your child may or may not have!!!! What of the mother who loses her child to measles even though her child was never at risk??

I'm all about responsible and ethical investigation in every direction, but the above assertion is anything but and the fear it creates is putting children, the lives of everyone around them and the lives of generations to come at grave risk.
There was a dangerous man ONCE, who fraudulently declared otherwise and children have died because of that blatent disregard of actual science. If he would have never opened his lying gob we wouldnt be having this discussion, yet some people still insist on falling back on his disgustingly inaccurate assertions.

I'd go so far as to declare what he did criminal.

[Willow]

This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!

I'd consider switching doctors if I was you. The fever is biology/immunology 101.

Sounds like he is either unbelievably arrogant or frightengly under educated

[Cradle2crayons]

This is very interesting, I didn't know this! My dh asked the doc why he gets the high fevers every time and the doc did say it's viral and my dh argued with him saying that it's every time and the doc said "Well I don't have a magic bullet to tell you otherwise" or something like that.

And I'm sorry your daughter has/had to go through that!

Another example.....

When we adopted our son at birth, and took him for his first set of shots at the local health department, they were pushing the oral rotavirus vaccine. My daughter didn't get offered it when she was little and actually ended up with rotavirus at age 3 months. The one time we took her out into crowded public at my father in laws funeral at a very small church with about 50 in attendance. She spent a couple days in the hospital and recovered fine.

Fast forward. I asked the nurses a lot of questions about the oral rotavirus because it was new. They minimized the side effects and said even though it was live, they've NEVER EVER seen a child GET rotavirus from the vax. I understood it was live though and I knew how the live vax worked.

He got the first oral dose of rotavirus. And WHAMO BAMMO the child got rotavirus so bad he was sick for WEEKS.

I was pissed I had been lied to and deceived. When it happened I went back up there for he first follow up like they prefer. They lied to me again and said they had NEVER seen a child get rotavirus from the live oral vax.

When he had his second set and third, I refused that vax.

[Angelsj]

There was a dangerous man ONCE, who fraudulently declared otherwise and children have died because of that blatent disregard of actual science. If he would have never opened his lying gob we wouldnt be having this discussion, yet some people still insist on falling back on his disgustingly inaccurate assertions.

I'd go so far as to declare what he did criminal.

This is a little bit insulting to those parents who have strong feelings about not vaccinating. And not true.
I began questioning vaccines for myself when my son had a nasty reaction to a pertussis vaccine 21 years ago. At that time, I found material that was already taking issue with the quantity/quality of what we were injecting into our children. This was long before the experiment you mention was ever done.
I am not going to argue about what that one scientist did, but to indicate that we "wouldn't be having this discussion" is just wrong. We WERE having this discussion. And children have also died from the vaccinations, so if we are arguing criminality, we would have to shoot an eye at the pharmaceutical companies as well.

[Willow]

This is a little bit insulting to those parents who have strong feelings about not vaccinating. And not true.
I began questioning vaccines for myself when my son had a nasty reaction to a pertussis vaccine 21 years ago. At that time, I found material that was already taking issue with the quantity/quality of what we were injecting into our children. This was long before the experiment you mention was ever done.
I am not going to argue about what that one scientist did, but to indicate that we "wouldn't be having this discussion" is just wrong. We WERE having this discussion. And children have also died from the vaccinations, so if we are arguing criminality, we would have to shoot an eye at the pharmaceutical companies as well.

I was only referencing the purported link between autism and vaccines, not the danger of them entirely.

My only experience with vaccines is one of near full disclosure. My children's doctors were always honest about the other *confirmed and proven* risks and it's easy to find plenty of other information both from the pharmaceutical companies themselves as well as unbiased/double blind studies.

I realize that has not been everyone's experience but no one is forcing a parent to authorize their child to be immunized and there is a heck of a lot of information out there for those who seek it.

I don't buy the whole, we're all victims here and everyone else in the world is corrupt, trying to hurt us and our families. A healthy dose of skepticism is good, but being overly paranoid can often times hut more than it helps. With that, balance is essential. Investigate, but investigate ALL. There are millions of parents in this country right now not vaccinating their children because they believe that will protect them from ever ending up with autism. The blinders are on, the vast majority are looking in only one (and in my opinion misguided) direction.