Need Advice Quick Please

[melilley]

I may get the full story from mom before terming and perhaps give them a stern warning that this is not to happen again. BUT the only concern I would have is access to the children. In my state we have to allow patents to access their children whenever they want. Drop-in or with notice, etc. There is never a time I'm allowed to tell parents "please don't come here" that I'm aware of. I have it posted in my entry and it's in my contract as well. I personally understand this was kind of a special circumstance, your first and only time using a sub and just to keep things easy it would be best to avoid a strange or unhappy situation, but just something to consider. There's a whole thread about what unhappy term'd parent can do to your business! If I did that I could face being investigated if they wanted to turn me in for denying them access to their child and terminating over it.

Eta- I just double checked my form and it states clearly that "parents can enter and inspect the home without advanced notice whenever children are in care."

Same here, we have to have an open door policy. So I can't put anything in my handbook or policies that states that parent's can't come when they want to. I see that many providers have a policy about this, but their state must not have the open door policy rule.?

[Unregistered]

You could say that he was not denied access to the children, as he was permitted to come pick them up. He was just denied being able to come in and visit when the provider was not there. I can see how it would be disruptive as the children already have someone new watching over them, and a visitor shows up too. You made a request and they chose not to honor it. Consequences may result from their choice.

[Unregistered]

Also because my approved sub was not available today the letter mom signed stated that due to an appointment my daycare will be closed on Oct. 24 from 10-12. My daughter is offering babysitting services for families who need them please sign if you would like to take her up on this offer. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.

[Willow]

It's always been my understanding that for my states regs a person has to be background checked through the county to just come in and hang around like that. Yes parents have to have access to their own children, but that no one knows him from Peter or Paul and he had extended access to everyone elses children when the rules were explicitly relayed to mom is what's most concerning here for me.

Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???

If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.

If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.

To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.


OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.

[butterfly]

Also because my approved sub was not available today the letter mom signed stated that due to an appointment my daycare will be closed on Oct. 24 from 10-12. My daughter is offering babysitting services for families who need them please sign if you would like to take her up on this offer. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.

hmmm... technically you were closed so that open door policy shouldn't have to be upheld. But then it becomes an agreement with your daughter and the parents and she did let him in.

But it is your house and you told mom to not let that happen.

Now, I'm not so sure where I stand. I'd still be creeped out and angry but I'm not so sure I could term over it now, since it was an understanding that I was "closed". ...

[daycare]

It's always been my understanding that for my states regs a person has to be background checked through the county to just come in and hang around like that. Yes parents have to have access to their own children, but that no one knows him from Peter or Paul and he had extended access to everyone elses children when the rules were explicitly relayed to mom is what's most concerning here for me.

Parents picking up and dropping off is one thing, but my home is not a social hang out for strangers. How would they feel if another strage parent had access to their child like that???

If mom did not relay the information that's not your fault or problem.

If I didn't term I'd make it crystal clear that what he did was COMPLETELY out of line.

To me it's pretty obvious they didn't trust your judgment as far as your daughter filling in goes and that would be an issue for me too. I'd interpret what he did as spying, and she had every reason to feel creeped out.


OP, go with your gut. Youve been doing this a long time and come across as a reasonable person. If it crossed a line for you don't feel bad about terming effective immediately. If your feeling is that you were disrespected and your home was violated I certainly wouldnt hesitate to do so.

This exactly..

years ago my SIL was married to a read WINNER.... well my SIL had her child here in my care and I would allow for them to stay for a few to visit because they were family.

My niece was only here for about 3 weeks. Well long story short, it turned out that my SIL was hiding from us that her now ex-husband, my nieces father is a registered S E X offender and yes it was a crime involving children. I was so angry at my SIL from keeping this from me. This man was in my home, my daycare and often hung out for about 20-30 minutes with all of these kids. Of course, I was always right there and thank goodness nothing happened, but as you said it, you never know.

[Unregistered]

Disrespectful parents are the worst. At interview i make it very clear that my house its not to be used as a point of visitation, ever, for no one, not for gramma, aunt , dad divorce parents , etc. Now if anyone in the family including Dad wants to stop by and see his kids, they need to come and pick them up and take them home! visitors are not allowed to hang around here in my home, visiting on my time, and they are also not allowed to bring them back again once they pick them up.
Its not your problem if Dad had not seen the kids in days, why not just pick them up early and take them with him? He needs to see them on his OWN TIME at his house.
Parents always have access to THEIR KIDS, they can pick them up, not stay and hang around,they have not been fingerprinted.
I would talk to the family and make my policies very clear, they didn't care that your daughter was there, clearly disrespectful.
I had dumb requests in the past like,can my cousin from out of town stop by and visit baby?he's in town today..No, I don't know the cousin from Adam, and he's not on the pick up list. Can my friend hang around tomorrow? No. Can my gramma stop by and visit child sometimes?No. if gramma has time to see child, visitation needs to happen at her house on her time. Can I stay for a couple of hours at drop off and play with my child? No, if you have time, don't drop off until your'e ready, Im sure im missing some more examples.Can the babys real dad stop by and see him. No handle your visitation on your time and not at daycare..I do not supervise adults...

[Margarete]

This may be a not understanding what you meant. "I would rather he didn't come, unless..." may not come off as a NO, don't come to them. It's quite likely they didn't realize how disruptive this was, or what you really meant. Don't term over just this... if there are other issues, that's something else... but this is most likely a communication/ misunderstanding issue that can be fixed (not for what already occurred obviously, but going forward).

coming in the back door sounds off, but I don't know what your set up is.

[TwinKristi]

I completely understand why this was disruptive, rude, creepy, etc. but my point was that if she terms and they get upset, they could potentially claim that they cannot be denied access to their children and were merely checking on their welfare. I'm not saying that's what he was doing. I completely agree that I wouldn't want someone, anyone, just hanging out with my daycare kids. Unfortunately it's just something you need to communicate. Like I said, I would give a very firm warning that it's not acceptable and cannot happen. If you want to visit your children, do so at home, not at my facility. I 100% agree with this BUT the OP didn't say "no absolutely not" but "I'd rather he didn't" and maybe dad took that and said "well I would rather see my kids than wait for tonight" since he missed his kids.
Personally I would put it in writing that they are to have access to their children while in your care, but your place of business has other children here as well and for the safety of their children as well as the others, we don't allow parents to just come hang out (unless they want to be finger-printed, TB tested, fill out a volunteer form, etc.) We simply cannot have random parents or family members just hanging out for more than a few mins at drop off and pickup. This letter serves as a formal warning and if there is another need for a formal warning you will terminate services immediately.
That's just me though. If this crosses a line for you than by all means terminate. But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that would be my fear.

[nanglgrl]

As far as having them sign something saying you were closed but your daughter would be offering babysitting services I'm not sure that would fly in my state. It might be kind of a loophole and I can't think of anything off hand in our regs that's against it but it does seem like something that would be frowned upon. We are allowed to have approved substitutes but that's it. We can have unlicensed/unregistered providers in our state but if your home is a legally licensed home in your state you might want to check if allowing your daughter to babysit, being paid directly from the parents, in your licensed daycare is allowed.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.

[daycare]

if the business was operational during your normal hours of operation whether ran by you or not, you are considered OPEN. At least in my state this is how it is defined

[craftymissbeth]

As far as having them sign something saying you were closed but your daughter would be offering babysitting services I'm not sure that would fly in my state. It might be kind of a loophole and I can't think of anything off hand in our regs that's against it but it does seem like something that would be frowned upon. We are allowed to have approved substitutes but that's it. We can have unlicensed/unregistered providers in our state but if your home is a legally licensed home in your state you might want to check if allowing your daughter to babysit, being paid directly from the parents, in your licensed daycare is allowed.
I know this isn't what you asked but thought its something you might want to check in case the parents try to use it against you if you term.
As far as what the dad did I would be mad too. We have to have an open door policy. Many providers (and even some licensors) take that to mean we have to leave our doors unlocked (not true) or let parents come and go as they please (also not true). What we do have to do is let parents pick up their child when ever they arrive. We are allowed to say that if they come they have to leave with their child and we are also able to advise them not to stay for long periods or come during busy or difficult times.

These are my thoughts also. You said you were closed, but then provided a sub. Even though you called her a babysitter and that it was an extra service it still wouldn't fly in my state. I obviously don't know about yours though. Also, when you got back from your appointment did you "reopen"?

I'm definitely not being negative... Just trying to see it from how licensing g here would see it.

[TwinKristi]

if the business was operational during your normal hours of operation whether ran by you or not, you are considered OPEN. At least in my state this is how it is defined

Same here. Not to mention it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.

I have no idea if these parents would actually do anything after being term'd but it's a risk you take when you leave parents unhappy and without daycare. They start to nitpick and find reasons why you're wrong and they're right and they have a foot in the door with this substitute thing.

[craftymissbeth]

If I were in this situation and wanted to term this family I would wait until they make a move that is clearly against my policies... just since there is too much confusion on whether they have something against you or not, kwim?

[daycare]

Same here. Not to mention it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.

I have no idea if these parents would actually do anything after being term'd but it's a risk you take when you leave parents unhappy and without daycare. They start to nitpick and find reasons why you're wrong and they're right and they have a foot in the door with this substitute thing.

I am confused on the first paragraph..it would then be illegal for your daughter to care for more than one family and she would be fined like $500 a day for running an illegal daycare in my state. Worst case scenario they could say you were off site and not supervising the children which is a big deal here.

In CA, you can have an asst. run your business for you when you are absent. You can only be absent 20% of the time when doing this. Your asst. must have completed a full back ground, TB, First Aid/CPR and be 18 yrs of age or older....