Your Thoughts On The Government Shutdown

[snbauser]

I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

If it was negotiated and agreed upon by both the House and Senate and then signed by the President, how was it not passed democratically? Is that not how the democratic process works? The House and the Senate write, negotiate, and approve the bills along with all of the language in it including rules and regulations and penalties so I'm confused how it was done "secretly".

[My3cents]

Honestly, it would make more sense (in my puny mind) to just let them keep working and forget the whole shutdown. Also, in any career situation you have to be prepared with an emergency fund. I honestly don't feel bad for people who don't prepare themselves ahead of time for something like this... not necessarily a government shutdown, but for ANY disaster/tragedy/job-loss-of-any-kind. I DO feel bad that they're in this situation and it's ridiculously unnecessary, but retro paying them for work they didn't do simply to stimulate the economy and make sure these people can still pay their bills doesn't make sense.


Now, before anyone freaks out on me for saying all that I want to remind you that I feel terrible for these people... they certainly do not deserve what they are going through and the uncertainty of it all.

So many people have a hard time just making ends meet from week to week,already robbing peter to pay paul. It would be wonderful if everyone could have a nest egg to dip into for these types of issues but not everyone can do this....most people can't.

not even close to freaking out on you- good conversation amongst all of us. We all come from different places in $, importance, beliefs etc.....

[My3cents]

ACA is actually pretty simple to sort out.

You have three options:
-Have insurance through your employer
-If your employer doesn't offer insurance, or you are self or unemployed you have the option of purchasing insurance via the government that has insanely high premiums and deductibles
-Do neither and pay a penalty tax every single year to the tune of several thousand dollars per each uninsured person in your household


The "you're going to do this or else" is what is unconstitutional and it should have NEVER gotten this far.

Think about it like this......the government thinks everyone should buy a car. You have the option to buy a car from a program via your employer, you can buy an over priced car from the government, or if you can choose not to buy a car you're going to be taxed to death and if you can't afford to or choose not to pay that tax they can take your house or even go to jail.

Doesn't that sound just insane??? All over a car????

The current administration is sending the exact same message that we are too stupid to decide what we need in our lives in the way of personal purchases.

It's really that simple. And it's exactly why it's time the people elected to protect our freedom of choice, do so. Even if it's hard and creates national turmoil.


If people didn't fight and simply waited for Lincoln to leave office where would slaves in this country be today? Certainly not free I can tell you that much...... I'm sure the people that lived during Civil War times weren't thrilled with bring pushed into it but they knew the fight was bigger than them. It wasn't just about what was comfortable this week, it was about what was going to be best for the country long term.

[Willow]

I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.

I have no real comments on the shut down or the method in which they are trying to resolve this issue (it's a little too late for that since it's happening anyways) but I do think that if the ACA was presented in FULL and TRUTHFULLY from the beginning none of this would be happening right now.

Exactly.

Your sons predicament is the exact scenario that's going to nail all of middle class America too. It's just terrible.




As far as the individuals here who have never heard the downfalls of socialized health care in not quite sure how to respond to that. The information out there about how people have to wait months or even years just to get in to see a doctor, regardless of emergent need is ASTOUNDING. Not to mention the fact that if the powers that be think your life is not worthy of saving they will simply deny your access to any care at all.......it's all incredibly well publicized and documented.

[Blackcat31]

If it was negotiated and agreed upon by both the House and Senate and then signed by the President, how was it not passed democratically? Is that not how the democratic process works? The House and the Senate write, negotiate, and approve the bills along with all of the language in it including rules and regulations and penalties so I'm confused how it was done "secretly".

It passed in a Democratically controlled House and a Democratically controlled Senate

Passed in middle of night. Just like Immigration Senate bill, nobody had chance to read it.

Nancy Pelosi herself said something along the lines of "Let's just pass this bill so we can see what's in it" :confused:

There are so many things that are just now coming to light that I just don't believe that ALL the information was presented so that it could be enacted democratically.

I mean democratically as in fair and equal not just passed by the Democratic party...

[MyAngels]

I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.

I can't understand this line of reasoning. The American people don't get to vote for laws, only our representatives in Congress do, so whether there are or were hidden points kept from the American people is a moot point. As long as our representatives in Congress had access to the information, that's all that matters. When we vote for our representatives we trust them to do what's best for their constituencies. That's the democratic way.

If an overwhelming majority of people are adamantly against this law then it's their job to let their representatives know their views, whether it's by contacting them directly or by their votes at election time, or both.

I have contacted all of my representatives twice so far this week, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so as long as I'm unhappy with the way they're handling things. I personally know one of my representatives in the House and he has assured me that the majority of the representatives do get the information when their constituents contact them. He doesn't personally read every e-mail or letter, but his staff compiles the information so that he can keep abreast of what's going on in his district.

[My3cents]

I thought You have the option to purchase from a private health insurance too. If everyone is required to be insured, then insurance rates should go down because we have options if where we get our insurance from. not going to happen because the price of health care is high-

Families that weren't able to afford health insurance can get insurance now. If you don't want to be insured, you have the option to pay the penalty. that is not an option- that is being bullied into doing it If families could afford to get it they would in the first place- It is not going to be affordable to everything else we have to spend our money on.

As self employed, health insurance was always ridiculously expensive and I'm excited to see what we can get now. I don't believe that will change, it will have the opposite effect, because it will be needed and the companies know this-

And I loved Michael's comment about letting daycare providers run congress!me too

I responded above

[craftymissbeth]

I can't understand this line of reasoning. The American people don't get to vote for laws, only our representatives in Congress do, so whether there are or were hidden points kept from the American people is a moot point. As long as our representatives in Congress had access to the information, that's all that matters. When we vote for our representatives we trust them to do what's best for their constituencies. That's the democratic way.

If an overwhelming majority of people are adamantly against this law then it's their job to let their representatives know their views, whether it's by contacting them directly or by their votes at election time, or both.

I have contacted all of my representatives twice so far this week, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so as long as I'm unhappy with the way they're handling things. I personally know one of my representatives in the House and he has assured me that the majority of the representatives do get the information when their constituents contact them. He doesn't personally read every e-mail or letter, but his staff compiles the information so that he can keep abreast of what's going on in his district.

This is basically my thought also.

[Laurel]

In CA employers have to have Worker's Compensation Insurance for this type of situation, it would all be paid for and we would qualify for disability as long as you're out of work. There are clinics you can go to through the state who cover WC claims as well. Sorry to hear this happened to your son though.

Oh sorry, I should have made it clear that he did have Workmen's Comp. They basically were useless. They gave him some useless treatments and then basically said he was faking his pain in so many words, I paid for an MRI and it proved he was not faking. They refused to get him one. He did see a lawyer that said he could win but he ws not up for a legal battle and doing the Domestic Partner thing seemed a better alternative.

Thanks for the sentiments. The doctor he has now has reduced his pain by 50% so that is something. He has another procedure this month so hopefully....

Laurel

[MyAngels]

I get a little frustrated when I see others believing everyone else's opinions and not thinking for themselves. I realize that the internet is not necessarily the best place for information, but for every single thing we believe in and feel strongly for (for EVERYTHING in life, not just politics) we need to take the time to do a little research and get some facts.

[Play Care]

Exactly.




As far as the individuals here who have never heard the downfalls of socialized health care in not quite sure how to respond to that. The information out there about how people have to wait months or even years just to get in to see a doctor, regardless of emergent need is ASTOUNDING. Not to mention the fact that if the powers that be think your life is not worthy of saving they will simply deny your access to any care at all.......it's all incredibly well publicized and documented.

See, I've looked and can't find anything *credible.* What I do know is that countries with socialized medicine enjoy longer lives, and lower rates of heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc. More importantly, the vast majority of people in countries with socialized medicine report they are happy/ satisfied with their care.
And if we are going to talk about denial of services - several years ago in my area a woman was denied a liver transplant because her *private* insurance refused to pay for it. They had read her file and knew she was not going to survive the surgery. But of course there was an outcry and she got the transplant - and died on the table.

[Willow]

Playcare - http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypip...-going-away-3/

All you have to do is google "socialized health care studies failing" and up will pop loads of credible sources with citations to credible studies.

Socialized health care does not work and an overwhelming majority end up suffering endlessly for it.



(You may have to clarify "credible" for me though if you need help locating more information.....I personally don't find the NHS for example a credible source for statistics on the system they continue to thump despite it bring broken you know?)

[Blackcat31]

See, I've looked and can't find anything *credible.* What I do know is that countries with socialized medicine enjoy longer lives, and lower rates of heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc. More importantly, the vast majority of people in countries with socialized medicine report they are happy/ satisfied with their care.
And if we are going to talk about denial of services - several years ago in my area a woman was denied a liver transplant because her *private* insurance refused to pay for it. They had read her file and knew she was not going to survive the surgery. But of course there was an outcry and she got the transplant - and died on the table.

I don't think you can accurately compare one country to another in certain situations of illness/disease etc since every country has a different racial and cultural make up that greatly impacts/influences those statistics. kiwm?

Also, another little fact I came across awhile ago..."Canadians are, overall, statistically healthier than Americans and show lower rates of many diseases such as various forms of cancer. But, on the other hand, evidence suggests that with respect to some illnesses (such as breast cancer), those who do get sick have a higher rate of cure in the U.S. than in Canada"

I belong to a Canadian forum for child care providers and not many of them say they are happy with their healthcare system so just like the US, I am sure there are two (or 3 and 4) sides to everything.

[My3cents]

All I know is that my two children (adults) who support themselves both work two jobs in order to pay for their college costs.

Both live on their own. Neither have children. Neither of my kids send $ on video games, partying or extravagances that a lot of young adults do (i-phones, new cars, name brand clothes etc) Both my kids live pretty frugally. they will end up having to move back home

Both of them have VERY little money left after paying for their rent, groceries and personal needs. and they are starting off...many families are in this boat too

With this new health plan, both will either need to stop eating or give up their apartments in order to pay for their "required" health care. yes because many companies (jobs) are letting health care go because they don't want to pay for it and figure that it can now be a personal expense for the individual.

Regardless of whether or not this plan is good for the majority or not...really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is my kids are having to put food and shelter BELOW health care on their priority lists and something is just not right about that. I am with you on this BC- IF people could afford health insurance they would already have it.

My DD actually made the comment that if she finds she can't do this....she is just going to have to have an illegitimate child or two so she doesn't have to worry and can survive.

Yes, she meant that as a joke but sadly I find more truth to her line of thinking than not....kwim?

she mean't it as a joke but this already is happening everywhere....reason why so many adults don't marry, they will loose services and won't be able to afford to be married. Truth is it is a reality and that is messed up- Woman have kids all the time to get more benefits out of the government.

I don't have an answer to this problem but I don't feel it is right to force people into buying anything- you want this to be mandatory then add it to all US Americans and make it for basic coverage and anything above and beyond that private payed- Again I don't have an answer

[Blackcat31]

I can't understand this line of reasoning. The American people don't get to vote for laws, only our representatives in Congress do, so whether there are or were hidden points kept from the American people is a moot point. As long as our representatives in Congress had access to the information, that's all that matters. When we vote for our representatives we trust them to do what's best for their constituencies. That's the democratic way.

If an overwhelming majority of people are adamantly against this law then it's their job to let their representatives know their views, whether it's by contacting them directly or by their votes at election time, or both.

I have contacted all of my representatives twice so far this week, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so as long as I'm unhappy with the way they're handling things. I personally know one of my representatives in the House and he has assured me that the majority of the representatives do get the information when their constituents contact them. He doesn't personally read every e-mail or letter, but his staff compiles the information so that he can keep abreast of what's going on in his district.

I am NOT really into politics at all and don't talk the talk. I really only have my personal opinion and the things (from both sides) that I've read to go on but I didn't literally mean American people like you and me....But I did mean that there was a lot of things in this bill that were hidden from those people I did elect to be my voice and that is NOT democratic in anyway.

I also only know how this affects myself and my family and what it means personally for me is that my children will still not be able to afford insurance but will now be penalized for not having it. :confused:

Something is just not right about that.