Your Thoughts On The Government Shutdown

[Blackcat31]

I highly recommend everyone do their own research on the topic of penalties for opting out of health insurance, but here are a few links that I found. Technically it could be thousands of dollars, but that all depends on the year, family size, and income. I do have to say that generalizing and making it seem like every family that opts out is going to pay thousands per person (which is how PP made it sound) isn't completely truthful.

Obamacare 101: What to know if you opt out of buying health insurance
Tax Penalty at a Glance: Who will pay & how much
How Much is the Health Insurance Penalty for an Individual?

There are obviously many, many more articles out there that can be found with a Google search.

How's this for a penalty?

A man who attempted to sign up for Obamacare online was told that a fine of over $4,000 dollars a year for refusing to take out mandatory health insurance could be taken directly from his bank account, and that his drivers license would be suspended and a federal tax lien placed against his home, according to an entry on the HealthCare.gov Facebook page.

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fines-to-be-seized-from-bank-accounts/

[craftymissbeth]

How's this for a penalty?

A man who attempted to sign up for Obamacare online was told that a fine of over $4,000 dollars a year for refusing to take out mandatory health insurance could be taken directly from his bank account, and that his drivers license would be suspended and a federal tax lien placed against his home, according to an entry on the HealthCare.gov Facebook page.

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fi...bank-accounts/

I just read the article you linked to and that's about some random guy who claims he received an email from the government stating that that's what they'll do, BUT is that really true? Why would he receive that email if the government and IRS are both vehemently denying that they have the ability to do ANY of that? That's directly stated in the article you linked.

From the article:
"The federal government has consistently denied that any fines pertaining to Obamacare non-compliance could be seized from bank accounts, despite reports last year that the IRS had hired 16,500 new agents to harass citizens who attempt to evade the new law.

“There’s no criminal sanctions for not paying this, and there’s no ability to levy a bank account or do seizures,” then-IRS commissioner Douglas Shulman said in April 2010.

In addition, Americans who refuse to pay for mandatory health insurance “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution,” according to the law itself.

Section 1501(g)(2) of the Affordable Care Act also states that the IRS cannot “file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section.”

The articles I linked to all have the same information that is available to everyone... not a random person claiming this or that to stir the pot.


I just want to add that I am not for nor against the ACA. There's not a whole lot that I can personally do about it and we're simply going to ride this thing out and see where it goes. The whole United States government is going downhill very, very quickly and the opinion that DH and I have is we're not convinced that it can even bounce back... at all.

[snbauser]

I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.

[TwinKristi]

The penalty is not thousands of dollars. It goes into effect in 2014 and is 1% of income or $95 Adult, $47.50/child. In 2015, it goes up to 2% of income or $325 adult and $162.50/child with a maximum for family of $205. Blackcat - my daughter got her insurance through college because she couldn't be on ours. Do your children qualify to be on your insurance? I believe it is age 26 if college student. Your children should be calling the insurance exchange. I did a quick check and was happy to see the costs. This is the law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. No one likes change but holding a country hostage because you don't like the law is wrong.

This is what I've been reading and was told several times as well which is why it really isn't being FORCED! A whopping $95-695 fine on my taxes? WOW! I really don't think the fine is that big of a deal, its really more about people having the option to get healthcare who didn't before. Due to a pre-existing condition I haven't been able to get private insurance in years. We paid $800/mo for insurance for years and about 5 yrs ago when the economy was bad (dh is self-employed and I was staying home at the time) we finally had to give it up and just go without insurance. We made too much for state insurance and didn't make enough to afford it. So I find it silly how NOW that people have to see it in their face they want to complain about it. The whole insurance system is just as scandalous and messed up than our gov't is and if people sat down and added it up, I would imagine people would probably take the fine over the craptastic coverage being offered. I don't blame Obama though. This is just a stepping stone towards where we should be like Canada and other countries. But the American people don't want to be like Canada, we like our guns, we like our top-notch military and that's fine.
The years we went without insurance we were remarkably healthy and had very few visits. I think we had 1 ER visit for my then toddler and it was about $1500. We paid OOP for our dr visists and it was about $75/visit. Now its up to $181/visit for cash pay at our office but I know other offices who are still $65-100 for a cash visit. Say you go 12x a year... that's still WAY less than what you would pay for insurance coverage and add in co-pays and deductibles at their huge "insurance" rate. When I got a PT job I took the health insurance (which basically took my whole paycheck) and the coverage was horrible. Once we hit our max I saw a bill and the way it was charged and was in shock! I explained that our insurance hit its max coverage and if I could get a cash pay discount and when I compared the bills it was INSANE! They charged me $10 for a vaccine that they bill at $500 to the insurance!!! So when you pay your 20% deductible, you're paying 20% of $500. Your insurance company only pays their negotiated rate of reimbursement. The whole thing just sickens me. Dh & I no longer have coverage but our kids do. We'll take the $190 fine over paying thousands for private coverage.

eta- I know that this doesn't take into consideration a horrific accident that would require a hospital stay and such, but there is emergency coverage for situations like this. Most hospitals will work with you on it if you don't have coverage. I was hospitalized in July and know how easily it can happen!

[Blackcat31]

I just read the article you linked to and that's about some random guy who claims he received an email from the government stating that that's what they'll do, BUT is that really true? Why would he receive that email if the government and IRS are both vehemently denying that they have the ability to do ANY of that? That's directly stated in the article you linked.

From the article:
"The federal government has consistently denied that any fines pertaining to Obamacare non-compliance could be seized from bank accounts, despite reports last year that the IRS had hired 16,500 new agents to harass citizens who attempt to evade the new law.

“There’s no criminal sanctions for not paying this, and there’s no ability to levy a bank account or do seizures,” then-IRS commissioner Douglas Shulman said in April 2010.

In addition, Americans who refuse to pay for mandatory health insurance “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution,” according to the law itself.

Section 1501(g)(2) of the Affordable Care Act also states that the IRS cannot “file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section.”

The articles I linked to all have the same information that is available to everyone... not a random person claiming this or that to stir the pot.


I just want to add that I am not for nor against the ACA. There's not a whole lot that I can personally do about it and we're simply going to ride this thing out and see where it goes. The whole United States government is going downhill very, very quickly and the opinion that DH and I have is we're not convinced that it can even bounce back... at all.

Yeah, I am NOT saying it is or isn't true...I just linked it because someone mentioned penalties..

I also have NO faith in what the government or the IRS says is or isn't true anymore.

Who knows for sure...until penalties actually start being given out...kwim? I agree 100% with your statement (bolded) above.

[craftymissbeth]

Yeah, I am NOT saying it is or isn't true...I just linked it because someone mentioned penalties..

I also have NO faith in what the government or the IRS says is or isn't true anymore.

Who knows for sure...until penalties actually start being given out...kwim? I agree 100% with your statement (bolded) above.

Gotcha!

I get a little frustrated when I see others believing everyone else's opinions and not thinking for themselves. I realize that the internet is not necessarily the best place for information, but for every single thing we believe in and feel strongly for (for EVERYTHING in life, not just politics) we need to take the time to do a little research and get some facts.

I do agree with the bolded above also!

[sleepinghart]

I'm glad they're digging their heels in.

If there's anything they should dig their heels in about it SHOULD be against unconstitutional legislation brought forth by arrogant egotistical elected officials.


I'm not happy about a government shut down but something like this needed to happen to wake this country up.

I'm glad at least someone is paying attention and demanding a big fat *NO MORE*

The current administration is completely out of control and needs to be stopped. I think it's the left that's throwing the tantrum because the people are refusing to bend over, not the other way around.....

lovethis

[My3cents]

I had a thread about how the shutdown affected one of my families, and I asked that it not be turned into a political discussion. Therefore, I have started this thread so that you CAN get political.

Go..........

I am sorry that was prob my fault, I just found it interesting and I got busy and forgot to start a new thread. Please forgive me.

[Play Care]

I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.

[Blackcat31]

I go back to my original point - whether you agree with Obamacare or not, it is now the law. It was democratically agreed to and put into place. Refusing to fund an existing law and shutting down the entire government thereby affecting hundreds of thousands of people at a minimum is not how you go about changing a law.

I disagree with that. I do NOT think it was passed democratically at all.

I think there were hidden points that were kept from the American people.

An overwhelming amount of people are still adamantly against this and I believe for good reason.

I have no real comments on the shut down or the method in which they are trying to resolve this issue (it's a little too late for that since it's happening anyways) but I do think that if the ACA was presented in FULL and TRUTHFULLY from the beginning none of this would be happening right now.

[Laurel]

This is what I've been reading and was told several times as well which is why it really isn't being FORCED! A whopping $95-695 fine on my taxes? WOW! I really don't think the fine is that big of a deal, its really more about people having the option to get healthcare who didn't before. Due to a pre-existing condition I haven't been able to get private insurance in years. We paid $800/mo for insurance for years and about 5 yrs ago when the economy was bad (dh is self-employed and I was staying home at the time) we finally had to give it up and just go without insurance. We made too much for state insurance and didn't make enough to afford it. So I find it silly how NOW that people have to see it in their face they want to complain about it. The whole insurance system is just as scandalous and messed up than our gov't is and if people sat down and added it up, I would imagine people would probably take the fine over the craptastic coverage being offered. I don't blame Obama though. This is just a stepping stone towards where we should be like Canada and other countries. But the American people don't want to be like Canada, we like our guns, we like our top-notch military and that's fine.
The years we went without insurance we were remarkably healthy and had very few visits. I think we had 1 ER visit for my then toddler and it was about $1500. We paid OOP for our dr visists and it was about $75/visit. Now its up to $181/visit for cash pay at our office but I know other offices who are still $65-100 for a cash visit. Say you go 12x a year... that's still WAY less than what you would pay for insurance coverage and add in co-pays and deductibles at their huge "insurance" rate. When I got a PT job I took the health insurance (which basically took my whole paycheck) and the coverage was horrible. Once we hit our max I saw a bill and the way it was charged and was in shock! I explained that our insurance hit its max coverage and if I could get a cash pay discount and when I compared the bills it was INSANE! They charged me $10 for a vaccine that they bill at $500 to the insurance!!! So when you pay your 20% deductible, you're paying 20% of $500. Your insurance company only pays their negotiated rate of reimbursement. The whole thing just sickens me. Dh & I no longer have coverage but our kids do. We'll take the $190 fine over paying thousands for private coverage.

eta- I know that this doesn't take into consideration a horrific accident that would require a hospital stay and such, but there is emergency coverage for situations like this. Most hospitals will work with you on it if you don't have coverage. I was hospitalized in July and know how easily it can happen!

I am just responding to the bolded part.

My son was hurt on his job at the time and has ruptured discs. He had no insurance at the time. No insurance at work. They didn't offer it. Since then, he has obtained insurance. At the time though, if his back was acting up he COULD go to the ER but after a while they will NOT treat chronic pain. More than one hospital told him he would need to see a doctor and not keep coming there when it hurt really bad. They basically told him to leave. He only did it when it was bad because like someone else said, doctor's visits are really expensive here. They are not a doctor's office for ONGOING pain. He went to the doctor on his own dime (which is fine) but the cost started becoming prohibitive.

The way he had to get insurance was to enter into a Domestic Partnership with his girlfriend so he could be on her insurance. That is the insurance he has now as he presently can't work because of pain. He is getting treated now though so we are hopeful that his current treatment is going to work for him.

Laurel

[My3cents]

my thoughts are that it is so far out of my control then why should I even bother to have a say or care. Stinkin thinking I am sure- but it is too complex and out of control for a little peep like me to do anything about.

Forcing people to have health insurance that can't even pay for what they have now is crazy. Wages do not compensate for the prices of living these days, and it is getting worse all the time.

Flip side of it is we all pay for those that don't have insurance anyway

Can't win- I don't have an easy answer for any of it.

I just know that job creation for the average Joe, the AJ that doesn't want a college education but would like to live off a good hard working job and be able to support a family hardly exist anymore. Why must two parents have to work and have to have two jobs to be able to make it. There are many AJs out there. I just know that welfare should be a hand up and not a life style, that would create job creation right there. It should be hard to get welfare and anyone on it should be doing something to earn it.

The power should be put back in the peoples hands the real people and not just the people sitting in an office looking good and making big bucks for pushing this stuff around and around. Stand for something and move on.

another thing is that it is not directly effecting me at this point, but it will when I have yet to say no to buying something else that I would like to get when doing my grocery shopping or going anywhere, because of yet again price increase but no price increase on my wages or my husbands wages.

I am sure I will have more comments on this subject...

[My3cents]

My thought is the mega banks and corporations now run this country. They consistently receive corporate welfare and all the other perks of being in power. There is the elite 2% that end up with 85% of the $$$$ and the remaining 98% must live the the 15% that is left.

I don't think it matters if we have a republican or democrat in office. Mega banks (both domestic and foreign) own both parties.

I hope I am wrong....things could get ugly in the not too distant future.

I feel the same way......

[My3cents]

Meteorologists cover themselves with "partly cloudy with a chance of rain". Translation= could be sunny, could be rain, could be clouds.

A politician covers themselves with, "its the other party's fault. Think how bad things would be if we didn't fight "them".

They are all the same. Results are what matters and we haven't seen much of that in a while. I say give the Congress to Daycare Providers. They have to balance a budget, take care of cry babies, wipe away wasteful crap. Just what America needs. Then we can have quiet time.

meteorologist have no control- weather can change at a whim

issues being battled do have control- stand for something and run with it and stop trying to play both sides, use common sense, stop catering to the rich and start looking out for the hard working.

you make me laugh Michael-::

[TwinKristi]

I am just responding to the bolded part.

My son was hurt on his job at the time and has ruptured discs. He had no insurance at the time. No insurance at work. They didn't offer it. Since then, he has obtained insurance. At the time though, if his back was acting up he COULD go to the ER but after a while they will NOT treat chronic pain. More than one hospital told him he would need to see a doctor and not keep coming there when it hurt really bad. They basically told him to leave. He only did it when it was bad because like someone else said, doctor's visits are really expensive here. They are not a doctor's office for ONGOING pain. He went to the doctor on his own dime (which is fine) but the cost started becoming prohibitive.

The way he had to get insurance was to enter into a Domestic Partnership with his girlfriend so he could be on her insurance. That is the insurance he has now as he presently can't work because of pain. He is getting treated now though so we are hopeful that his current treatment is going to work for him.

Laurel

In CA employers have to have Worker's Compensation Insurance for this type of situation, it would all be paid for and we would qualify for disability as long as you're out of work. There are clinics you can go to through the state who cover WC claims as well. Sorry to hear this happened to your son though.