Input on Potty Issues?

[Unregistered]

We have a 3 yr old who is potty trained while at home. Has been since May or June. But for the past couple months, most of the time here at daycare, she pees in her pants, just a little, then says, "I peed". Even when reminded, she puts up a fuss and says she doesn't need to go when we tell her to (we've even sat her on the potty and she just sits there and then tells us that it won't come out). But then not even two minutes later she comes to me saying, "I peed in my pants" But I'm really beginning to wonder how much of it is an "accident". Sometimes she'll see us holding someone else's clothes for them to change into, and she'll immediately say, "I peed". But she's only a a little wet, like she did it just so she could change, also. We know she was dry before she saw us with someone's clothes, so I really wonder. The other day she "had an accident" during preschool and I couldn't get to her and her stuff right then, so I told her she'd have to wait a second. She got so upset and kept pestering me and whining, "but I peed! I need new pants!" She was barely wet, of course, just enough to have to change, it seems. And she was more upset over having to wait to change her clothes than she was about sitting in her wet ones. I tried the sticker reward thing, and that worked really well for a couple days, but she doesn't care anymore, and continues to have "accidents". We won't put her in a pull-up because I think that'd just be giving her permission to be lazy and not go potty. She is potty trained at home, and was for awhile here, so I know she should be here. What would you suggest doing? We are on a potty schedule because we have so many being potty trained at the moment anyway. I know we can't discipline related to toileting, but when you think it's willful, what would you do? I think the parents are starting to question us because of this. They've mentioned things a couple times, without actually saying they're questioning having her at the daycare. They've been with us for a long time, and have always been pleased with us, never had any problems with us, so I don't want this girl's "accidents" to mess things up and end up having her parents pull her out. Just for the record, we have good communication with the parents regarding this whole thing of not going potty. But I think they're starting to blame us...

[Unregistered]

Have you asked the parents if there have been any new changes at home?

My own son has been potty trained since 25 months old. He is almost 4 now but about 6 months ago, he started going to his room to change his clothes several times a day to match what another daycare kid was wearing. I told him that he wasn't allowed to do that anymore and that he had to wear what Mommy put on him that day regardless of what X was wearing. Shortly after that, he started telling me his clothes were wet because he "peed a little bit" and needed to change. He was never wet enough to warrant a change of clothes (or even a change of underwear) but he knew if he told me he peed, he would get a change of clothes just like the other kids do when they wet themselves. After this happened about 3 times in one week, I told him that since he only "peed a little bit" he had to keep on the same clothes and they would be dry soon but until they dried he would have to sit on plastic chair so he wouldn't get the couch or carpet wet. He only had to do this one time and he hasn't peed a little bit since ::

Your situation sounds similar and I am not saying that this is what you should do but it worked for me. Our regs say that soiled diapers and clothing need to be changed promptly (not immediately). What if you did not respond to her request immediately and just waited a few minutes before changing her clothes? Like, during your regular potty break, just have her go last instead of first.

Also, if she pees enough to wet the floor, have her help you clean it up.

[mac60]

Possible there could be an infection. There needs to be a consequence for the behavior if you feel it is done on purpose. Regardless, it is not sanitary to have a child run around regularly with pee clothes. They would be back in a pull up here until the problem solved. It is different if it is in their own home vs in a daycare.

[Unregistered]

Possible there could be an infection. There needs to be a consequence for the behavior if you feel it is done on purpose. Regardless, it is not sanitary to have a child run around regularly with pee clothes. They would be back in a pull up here until the problem solved. It is different if it is in their own home vs in a daycare.

They've had her to the doctor to see if maybe she had an infection, but she didn't. This has been going on for awhile now, but I can't figure out if she's just too lazy to go to the bathroom and potty when she needs to, or if she just wants to change clothes, or if she doesn't want to take time out of her play to go potty. She doesn't have this problem at home, just here, so I don't think it's any problems at home causing it.
No, she just pees a little bit. Just enough to have to change her clothes. Sometimes she doesn't even tell us when she's wet. We have to just see a slight wet spot on the back of her pants and then ask her about it. But other times she tells us first thing, like when she sees us carrying someone else's pants, and then she pees in her's.

We can't discipline in relation to potty training (regs call it toileting) can we? And even if we could, what consequence would you suggest for that? Telling her each time that she's a big girl and too big to pee in her pants doesn't work. I sort of got after her today for it, telling her she's too big for that and that she can't do that anymore, etc, but then she looked up at me and told me, "I'm sorry, miss ________. She sounded so sincere, like it really was an accident and made me feel so guilty, because I know we shouldn't get after her for accidents if that really is what it is. But it looks more like it's willful. She had an "accident" twice today within a half hour's time. Both times barely wet. That was when I finally got after her. Everytime we tell her to go potty she gets mad and says she doesn't need to. We tell her to just try, but she still fusses about it and continues repeating that she doesn't need to. We still make her go to the bathroom, but so often she won't go until after she's off the potty (Then just a couple minutes later she wets her pants).

[SilverSabre25]

Maybe find her "currency"? If stickers worked for a short time, maybe something else would work better...like an M&M or Skittle or something. Actually, here's a question...how were you doing the sticker chart? Was it for peeing in the potty or for staying dry? I would do it for staying dry--like if she's dry the whole day, she gets a sticker, and for five stickers she gets something (discuss with parents--small toy, piece of candy, something like that). Or if stickers don't work, try giving her a piece of candy if she's dry the whole day, or a marshmallow, or a dime or something, whatever is her "currency".

Have you tried asking her why she has these accidents--whether it's because she needs to go and forgets, or is it that she wants to change clothes?

[QualiTcare]

a had a kid one time who would pee on herself just so she could change which sounds like what your child is doing. when i would go to get her clothes, she'd be like, "i want the mermaid panties!" - or whatever kind it was. she literally peed on herself so she could change panties because she had "cool" panties.

i told her mom what she was doing and asked her to bring plain panties. she did - and the peeing stopped pretty much immediately when she realized she didn't have any fancy underwear to change into.

sometimes it's a shame we have to be all appropriate n stuff. my grandmother would make my little cousins wear their mess for a good while - OR make them sit on the potty for a LONG time. of course, that's not acceptable anymore, and especially not at daycare, but it sure does work!

[QualiTcare]

Maybe find her "currency"? If stickers worked for a short time, maybe something else would work better...like an M&M or Skittle or something. Actually, here's a question...how were you doing the sticker chart? Was it for peeing in the potty or for staying dry? I would do it for staying dry--like if she's dry the whole day, she gets a sticker, and for five stickers she gets something (discuss with parents--small toy, piece of candy, something like that). Or if stickers don't work, try giving her a piece of candy if she's dry the whole day, or a marshmallow, or a dime or something, whatever is her "currency".

Have you tried asking her why she has these accidents--whether it's because she needs to go and forgets, or is it that she wants to change clothes?

that's exactly why rewards in general aren't a good idea. don't get me wrong, i don't like rewards with the exception of potty training. but like you said - if stickers worked before - maybe candy will work now. the kids always up the anti which is why rewards are a bad idea in most cases. in school, i could give the kids some M&Ms at the end of the day if they had a good day. that worked for awhile, but just like i was told it would happen, it happened. the M&Ms weren't enough. they'd much rather slap the crap out of a kid then have an few M&Ms. i couldn't afford to keep getting bigger and better bribes.

then you have kids like my own children who don't care about a treasure box. my daughter told me she didn't get to go to the treasure box and said, "i don't care about a stupid pencil or toy - i can get my own."

potty training is a little different. you aren't rewarding them to "do the right thing" because peeing is not only the right thing, but it's neccessary. it's kind of like pavlov's method with the dog - ring the bell, put the food out, feed the dog. eventually, the dog drools when he hears the bell even if there's no food. the kid will pee when you show them the candy! but some kids are funny - like the mermaid panty kid - and you'll always have to bribe them more and more. i know what those kids REALLY need and it isn't a reward.

[Lilbutterflie]

I would definitely have a talk with her parents to see what is going on at home & to let them know it's something both of you need to work on. It could just be wanting to change clothes all of the time, or that mixed with getting a little attention like the other little ones do when they get wet and need to change clothes. She might just be seeing all of the others potty training and jealous b/c they are getting your attention and focus. Try giving lots of praise for staying dry, give her the attention for positive things. And maybe mom and dad can bring in some plain white underwear and some plain boring sweat pants and shorts until it gets better, or her least favorite pants and shorts.

[SilverSabre25]

that's exactly why rewards in general aren't a good idea. don't get me wrong, i don't like rewards with the exception of potty training. but like you said - if stickers worked before - maybe candy will work now. the kids always up the anti which is why rewards are a bad idea in most cases. in school, i could give the kids some M&Ms at the end of the day if they had a good day. that worked for awhile, but just like i was told it would happen, it happened. the M&Ms weren't enough. they'd much rather slap the crap out of a kid then have an few M&Ms. i couldn't afford to keep getting bigger and better bribes.

then you have kids like my own children who don't care about a treasure box. my daughter told me she didn't get to go to the treasure box and said, "i don't care about a stupid pencil or toy - i can get my own."

potty training is a little different. you aren't rewarding them to "do the right thing" because peeing is not only the right thing, but it's neccessary. it's kind of like pavlov's method with the dog - ring the bell, put the food out, feed the dog. eventually, the dog drools when he hears the bell even if there's no food. the kid will pee when you show them the candy! but some kids are funny - like the mermaid panty kid - and you'll always have to bribe them more and more. i know what those kids REALLY need and it isn't a reward.

I didn't say that because stickers worked for awhile, maybe candy will now. I was saying that maybe (just MAYBE, I don't know the kid) stickers aren't her "currency"--maybe candy is, or working towards a special something (with the parents' help) or something else. I'm talking about finding what really "speaks" to the girl and what she's willing to change for. My daughter was good with candy (one jellybean at a time), my niece was fine with stickers, one of my nephews needed to be working towards a "big" reward (going to a movie, I think). Every kid has their own "currency". It's not exactly bribery--it's giving them another reason to change. You are rewarding the desired behavior--when you're potty training, you reward peeing in the potty. Right now you are trying to achieve staying dry all day, so you reward that. One piece of candy if she stays dry all day, or one sticker for staying dry, or whatever. To phase out the reward, once it's habit for her to be doing it, you start making HER remember to ask for the reward...and eventually she will forget the reward but not the behavior.

The reason why this kind of method will work (with SOME kids--some are unphased by a reward system--it's not their currency) is because it is for something definite. Getting M&Ms for "being good" is NOT a definite thing. Kids do not instictively understand "being good". Getting an M&M for not hitting, or for staying dry, or for peeing in the potty, or for staying on the mat at nap time--those are definite. They are concrete. They are understandable. You can't make it for something abstract like "being good"--that's like making a New Year's Resolution to "be healthy"--well, what does that *mean* anyway? It's like making a classroom rule "Be nice"--until you define for them what "nice" is, you won't get anywhere.

Kids only up the ante if you let them. Some kids aren't swayed by rewards. This girl might not be. She might need some other motivation. She might have some other reason for doing what she's doing. You could try asking her why she does it. You could try having her parents "forget" a change of clothes and put her in something hideous that she hates (I dunno...boy underwear, bright yellow pants, something she really won't want to wear).

[kidkair]

Kids have to want to use the potty. Maybe your dcg wants to step back just for a bit. I would let her go back to diapers and just be very deadpan about the diaper changes making them much less fun than potty time until she decides to use the potty again.

[Unregistered]

Thank you everyone! Those are some really good suggestions! I think I was doing the sticker thing all wrong. I'd give her a sticker for going potty, because I was afraid she wouldn't even bother trying to go potty and stay dry if she had to wait the whole day for her sticker, but I could have shown her the stickers and told her if she stayed dry all day she'd get to pick one out. Besides that, giving her one everytime she went potty didn't work so well with the older preschoolers either (the other day both a 4 yr old and a 5 yr old came to me wanting their sticker because they went potty. Yikes! they were serious! And they've been potty trained for a long time now)!
And the suggestions on giving her clothes that she won't enjoy wearing, we'll have to give that a try as well!
And asking her why she's doing it...I don't know why we didn't do that!
I can't wait to start the week and try out some of these ideas now! Maybe we'll get somewhere (and the parents can be happy with us again...)

[Unregistered]

None of it has worked yet. Infact the idea of having her change into clothes she wouldn't like, such as boy pants and underwear...well, on Monday she went to the bin we keep extra clothes in (for those whoes parents forget to replace clothes), and she got out some boy pants and underwear herself and changed into them! She didn't care a bit and noone told her to get them. It's just what she chose! I've tried asking her why she pees in her pants, and she just kept repeating, "I don't know". I asked if she just likes changing her clothes and she said the same thing. I asked her if she forgets, and I still didn't get any further. I've tried everyday this week, telling her she'll get an extra special sticker when mommy comes if she stays dry the whole day. She loves stickers, but she still has several accidents, as if she could care less. A person would think maybe she was doing it just because there'd be a lot going on and she didn't want to take time out to go potty, but she even has accidents at "boring" times as well (like washing hands or getting ready for nap). She can be so stubborn. She'll be holding herself sometimes and I'll tell her to "go potty!" and she whines, "I don't need to". Even if, like I said, nothing else is going on, and she's not in the middle of doing something that could get messed up while she's going potty. I just can't figure it out! I'm so afraid her parents are losing patience with us. Why at daycare and not at home? Half the time she won't even tell us anymore when she "has an accident". She just continues playing like nothing happened. She's 3 years old, I would think wet pants would bother her...

[Lucy]

None of it has worked yet. Infact the idea of having her change into clothes she wouldn't like, such as boy pants and underwear...well, on Monday she went to the bin we keep extra clothes in (for those whoes parents forget to replace clothes), and she got out some boy pants and underwear herself and changed into them! She didn't care a bit and noone told her to get them. It's just what she chose! I've tried asking her why she pees in her pants, and she just kept repeating, "I don't know". I asked if she just likes changing her clothes and she said the same thing. I asked her if she forgets, and I still didn't get any further. I've tried everyday this week, telling her she'll get an extra special sticker when mommy comes if she stays dry the whole day. She loves stickers, but she still has several accidents, as if she could care less. A person would think maybe she was doing it just because there'd be a lot going on and she didn't want to take time out to go potty, but she even has accidents at "boring" times as well (like washing hands or getting ready for nap). She can be so stubborn. She'll be holding herself sometimes and I'll tell her to "go potty!" and she whines, "I don't need to". Even if, like I said, nothing else is going on, and she's not in the middle of doing something that could get messed up while she's going potty. I just can't figure it out! I'm so afraid her parents are losing patience with us. Why at daycare and not at home? Half the time she won't even tell us anymore when she "has an accident". She just continues playing like nothing happened. She's 3 years old, I would think wet pants would bother her...

Ok, sounds like she can change her own clothes. So... what I would do is stop giving her so much attention towards peeing herself. When it happens, non-chalantly and without saying anything, hand her new panties & pants and have her change herself. She may be doing this in an attempt to control the situation - and you. If you don't give her the satisfaction of a reaction, she may give up.

Also, I'd have her sit on the potty on a regular schedule (maybe once an hour??) with a book and a cup of something to drink. Maybe a portable radio even. Set a timer that she can see - kitchen timer, wind-up alarm clock, hourglass, or whatever - and tell her when the time is done, she can come out.

[mac60]

I had a dcg who was 4, she tended to have a lot of accidents. Well, that's what they called them. She went thru every test under the sun, and other than an occassional uti, there was nothing wrong with kidneys, or any other organs that would cause her to wet herself. Even when she did it, she wouldn't tell me, I would eventually find out or feel it where ever she has sat. Well, one day before nap, they were watching a video, she sat there and peed her pants. I was pissed, because she did it and just sat in it. I talked to the mom, and the next morning the mom said "She said she peed her pants because she didn't want to miss the video." OMG, I was pissed. I then told the dcg if she ever peed her pants again at my house, she would never watch another video, and lo and behold, give a consequence and it worked. When you know that the child can do it (go potty), has done it, then makes the concious choice to start peeing herself again, it is then time for consequences for bad behavior. It is time society steps up and starts disciplining children for the negative behaviors, instead of being so worried about not being their friend and hurting their feelings. Some things are simply wrong.

[DreamBig]

To me it sounds kind of like an attention thing. Especially when she sees you changing someone else and pees herself to be changed too. I really like the suggestion of just giving her clothes she doesn't much like and have her change herself - without you helping or even talking to her, because that could be what she wants. Give praise for staying dry. Maybe not for a whole day but start with 1 or 2 hours, and if she stays dry she gets the reward / praise, whatever. If that works then slowly start extending the length of time she has to be dry to get the reward. And eventually (in theory) she'll be able to go the whole day without an accident.