I Have a Dilemma

[broncomom1973]

And if the only reason why you want a kid to have formula over milk that the PARENTS of the child want it to have is because of MONEY from the food program, that is pretty selffish to me. Oh my, lets not get ripped off by a few cents here and there...I wonder if you would still care about the milk if you were not on the food program? Lets face it, it's the child you are worried about, it's the money!

Maybe you also should report WIC for giving out JUICE for heavens sake... It's not RAT POISON ya know!

Bottom line is you are judging this woman on her first day of care with NO FACTS!

Well, arent you judging those of us who are trying to be advocates for this child? You are judging us by saying all we care about is the money not this childs health and wellbeing. It is not because of money, . Do you seriously think that juice has more nutritional value than formula or milk? I follow the requirements because that is what is best for the child. I seriously could care less about the reimbursement as it is not much. And no, I dont have a problem with juice at all. I give my own 3 children juice, BUT ONLY AFTER they have drank an adequate amount of milk for the day. What crazy mom would want to fill their child up with juice when you can offer them something that is nutritionally BETTER?

I understand your problem with the friend stating that this child has lost weight, however, even if there was not weight loss, she is still underweight. Do you understand that? Yes, some children are small, I have one myself. I was constantly asking the provider how much she ate, how much she drank, and most importantly, she was supplied with formula and anything else that I thought would benefit my daughter nutritionally. As a mother I would not have wanted my daycare provider to give my daughter juice when she should have been getting formula. And, as a matter of fact, my pediatrician increased the amount of formula she wanted my daughter to have to try to increase her weight.

The bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with looking out for this child and talking to her mother to make sure the mother is educated about her childs nutritional needs. If the mom provides the daycare provider with a medical reason why this girl needs juice in place of the formula then it wont be an issue anymore. Maybe this mom will appreciate the providers input or maybe this mom is just naive, as naive as you, .

[Crystal]

Well, it's a new day. Did you address this with mom at pick up time? What did she say? Does she actually use formula and uses the word "milk"? Did you tell her that a friend of hers has been feeding you information, about her parenting, and you want to find out if the second hand information you have been provided is accurate? Personally, if I was your client, and found out that you were getting this info from a "friend" of mine, I'd question your integrity as my provider and respecting confidentiality. I'd also be questioning the "realness' of my friendship with said "friend".

And, yeah, for the most part, what legomom said.

[Crystal]

On another note, why didn't you and mom have a discussion at enrollment abou what child eats/drinks and who supplies it? Being an infant, this should certainly have been discussed BEFORE she was left in your care.

[marniewon]

And if the only reason why you want a kid to have formula over milk that the PARENTS of the child want it to have is because of MONEY from the food program, that is pretty selffish to me. Oh my, lets not get ripped off by a few cents here and there...I wonder if you would still care about the milk if you were not on the food program? Lets face it, it's the child you are worried about, it's the money!

I'M not worried about the money OR the child, this isn't MY dck. I only brought up the food program because if THEY say the child needs formula (and they go by the gov't food standards) then THEY must know a little something about the nutritional needs of children! You are right - a FEW CENTS is all we get, so that's obviously not the reason I would even bring it up.

I have an 11 1/2 month old and mom recently switched to milk. I give him milk. I don't have a problem with that. He's thriving. The doctor is on board with giving him milk. I also have a 15mo dcb who has lost a few pounds in the last few months and his doctor IS concerned about it. And he is by no means scrawny, but doctors tend to be concerned when children lose weight for no apparent reason.

No one said juice is poison. The argument here is that the doctors/WIC/food program people know a heck of a lot more than we do and many parents do - and THEY all deem that kids need formula until they are 1 (unless for some reason they can't, or don't need it, as in closer to age 1). The big problem is that mom brought JUICE and said JUICE or WATER only - no milk or formula at all!!! They need one or the other!

[thatgagirl]

New baby started today, will be 11mos this weekend.

Mom dropped off we talked for a min and she left, I went to put all her stuff away and there was no formula. I texted mom and said "There is no formula" she said "No formula, juice juice or water"

There was a giant jug of juicy juice in the bag.

I don't give children juice. Flat out, period. My 3 and 4 year old maybe get it once every couple months.

She said that the child gets 2 bottles/cups of "milk" a day one in the AM when she wakes and one to go to bed. I know for a fact she is on WIC so she gets formula...

Is there a link to something I can print saying how many ounces of formula they need before age 1? I know that cows milk is fine after age 1, but is it ok for her to only have water all day? She is here until about 4pm.

I have a 9 month old here who gets his morning bottle here and then a lunch bottle. By those calculations I would be giving the 11 mo at least 1 cup of milk a day since they leave at about the same time. The 9mo gets here a little earlier than the 11mo...

ETA: I breastfed my children, so formula is new to me

HELP!

Oh and she also has the 11mo forward facing in the carseat (she is 15lbs) but I guess that is another battle *sigh*

I don't think I will be calling CPS, but I just want to address the issue with her.

I spoke to a close friend of hers who said this baby weighed 17lbs 3 mos ago, so she has lost 2 lbs over the last 3 mos.

I am going to print those guidelines to hand out in a newsletter along with the USAA carseat booklets I keep on proper carseat use...*sigh*

Legomom, this isn't a breast vs formula issue. I personally don't agree with anything you said you do, but I am not here to make issue with other peoples parenting. I just want to make sure this mom has the info she needs to properly nourish her child be it formula, or breastmilk. I would never give a child under 12 mos cows milk.

The child chowed down at lunch, mom sent a jar of stage 3 fruit so we gave her that AND a jar of stage 3 dinner we had and she ate it all, and has been scavengering for food from the other childrens lunch too...I feel bad.

I will mention to mom that I am going to start supplying YoBaby for the infants for breakfast along with oatmeal and fruit, so at least there is some dairy also.

That is the thing Jewels, I did discuss this at interview! I asked her if she was breast or formula and she said formula and that she gets 2 bottles a day and the rest is sippy cup. I ASSumed that she ment she got formula during the day in a sippy and formula in a bottle breakfast/dinner, which sounded normal for 11mos. It wasnt until today the juice bombshell got dropped. It states in my handbook about how I don't do juice except as a treat for toddlers and how I don't do solids before 6 mos, I also told her (and itis in the HB) that they need to send a can of formula every monday until they are 1...

I texted her earlier and mentioned that I forgot to tell her I supply breakfast of YoBaby and oatmeal and she said that was fine.

I am going to tell her this afternoon to send a can of formula to keep here. I hate confrontation! UGH!

Oh and this child is very smart and well past milestones, by her behavior etc you would think she was 18mos. She is tall and skinny, which I would absolutely think is normal (My oldest was EBF and only 18lbs at age 1 but 30+ inches tall, he is now 4 and 37lbs 46 inches tall) if it wasnt for the juice issue. I understand wic provides juice but I dont think they mean for it to be the sole nutrition during the day when they provide formula for them also...

well, mom has stayed home with her since birth, and is going back to work now. My other daycare parent is friends with her and said things are tight for them, and they have 3 other SA kids...

lego mom, you are totally missing the point. I am not trying to mother this child, I am trying to make sure mom has the information she needs to properly parent this child.

*deleted the rest because now my mind is boggled*

All the above posts are EVERYTHING I said in this thread. Somehow words keep getting put in my mouth.

Well, it's a new day. Did you address this with mom at pick up time? What did she say? Does she actually use formula and uses the word "milk"? Did you tell her that a friend of hers has been feeding you information, about her parenting, and you want to find out if the second hand information you have been provided is accurate? Personally, if I was your client, and found out that you were getting this info from a "friend" of mine, I'd question your integrity as my provider and respecting confidentiality. I'd also be questioning the "realness' of my friendship with said "friend".

And, yeah, for the most part, what legomom said.

On another note, why didn't you and mom have a discussion at enrollment abou what child eats/drinks and who supplies it? Being an infant, this should certainly have been discussed BEFORE she was left in your care.

Crystal, wow, seriously, you make me sound like the worlds worst provider for asking for guidelines for infant nutrition! I did not ask her friend for info on the child that friend was told by DCM that I was watching baby and she (with moms permission) came to see baby, that is when her weight came up in the convo and the finances. I never ASKED for the information.

If you read MY posts you would see I DID discuss this with the mom before enrolling.

Next time I have questions I will be sure NOT to ask them here...ugh

[legomom922]

If she is getting milk/formula in the morning at home, and at dinner at home and maybe before bed at home, and all she is getting is 2 say 4oz servings of juice during the day, I wouldnt call that "filling up" on juice, It's not like kids sit there and drink the whole day long. I see nothing wrong with a cup of water, which is also very good for the body and some juice!

I'm amazed my kids lived...and I'm not in jail for child abuse/neglect because I gave my baby juice!

[Crystal]

That is the thing Jewels, I did discuss this at interview! I asked her if she was breast or formula and she said formula and that she gets 2 bottles a day and the rest is sippy cup. I ASSumed that she ment she got formula during the day in a sippy and formula in a bottle breakfast/dinner, which sounded normal for 11mos. It wasnt until today the juice bombshell got dropped. It states in my handbook about how I don't do juice except as a treat for toddlers and how I don't do solids before 6 mos, I also told her (and itis in the HB) that they need to send a can of formula every monday until they are 1...

I texted her earlier and mentioned that I forgot to tell her I supply breakfast of YoBaby and oatmeal and she said that was fine.

I am going to tell her this afternoon to send a can of formula to keep here. I hate confrontation! UGH!


Oh and this child is very smart and well past milestones, by her behavior etc you would think she was 18mos. She is tall and skinny, which I would absolutely think is normal (My oldest was EBF and only 18lbs at age 1 but 30+ inches tall, he is now 4 and 37lbs 46 inches tall) if it wasnt for the juice issue. I understand wic provides juice but I dont think they mean for it to be the sole nutrition during the day when they provide formula for them also...

My apologies...I did not see this post. So, Mom does give the child formula, not milk. Sounds to me that she is probably working towards weaning her from formula, which, at 11 months is typical. I'd tell Mom that I am not serving juice, that she can do that at home and let her know that she needs to have at least one bottle/cup of formula a day. I'd offer water the rest of the time. OR, ask for a Doctor's note with specific recommendations.

[missnikki]

Once a thread gets this long, it becomes irresistable to those who don't bother to read the whole thing in context to comment on it.

That being said,
To the original poster:

Some people think that it is OK to give the child whatever the parent wants, regardless of the gut feeling you have about whether or not it is good for the child.

Other people think that you are right in being concerned for this child, and that the little information you have to go on is enough to follow up with.

Yet others think you are a yellow-bellied Juice Hater!

Personally, I say thank you for trusting the various opinions on this forum, and I hope that we didn't scare you off. It was a good question, I hope it was answered for you in a way that settles the issue.

[nannyde]

Thatgagirl,

Don't sweat it. You are right.

Here's the deal. Once a parent takes their child out into public (and we ARE their public) and leaves any aspect of the care of the child to someone else they immediately loose a LOT of the "rights" they believe they have.

Once someone else is a PART of their decisions and the one who carries OUT their decisions... that person becomes liable. So the provider and the State who regulates home child care have accountability to make sure that parents are not allowed to give permission to the provider to do the wrong thing.

My State for example has it in their code that both registered and unregistered child care homes MUST follow the Federal Food Program guidelines even if you are NOT participating in the Federal Food Program. Here is the exact wording: Regular meals and mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks shall be provided which are well balanced, nourishing, and in appropriate amounts as defined by the USDA Child and Adult Care Food Program.

So the parent looses the ability or right to decide in my State WHAT the child is offered in this situation. She simply doesn't get to decide. USDA says we MUST serve formula and/or breast milk with both meals and that infants under the age of one are free fed formula or breast milk.

This is only one example of litterally HUNDREDS of examples wherein a parent can not decide what a provider does with their child. The most the parent can do is find a provider with as close to their viewpoints as possible but the parent can NOT ask the provider to do something that is the wrong thing simply because they are the parent of the child. As soon as the parent hands over ANY of the care of the child both the State, the provider, AND the providers insurance company have a vested interest and liability in the care of that child.

In my child care parents actually have very little to decide. I offer what I offer and they can not influence the VAST majority of what I offer solely based upon the child being their child. I do not "do as I'm told". I do what is right and good. They can either choose that for their child or they can find another care arrangement that fits their ideal of what they want.

I decide the schedule. The parents do not influence the schedule in any way.
I decide the meals. The parents do not influence the meals in any way.
I decide activities. The parents do not influence the activities in any way.
I decide the sleep/rest schedule. The parents do not influence this in any way.

I know what is best for their child in my care. I decide. You know what is best for this baby while in YOUR care. You decide.

You are doing great. Just be firm on what you can and can not offer and let her choose whether or not this is the right fit for her.

[legomom922]

Your clients are your employeers..They are HIRING you to work for them, and that work involves taking care of their child. Since when does a employee call the shots? What gives you the right to DECIDE all these things for someone elses kids? If I came to you and said we are vegitarians, DO NOT give my child meat, I would expect you to follow my orders and NOT give my child meat! I don't care what is on your list to feed my child, you had better listen to me the parent! If I don't want you to give my child cookies, I would expect you to listen and not give cookies behind my back just because you think you have the right to DECIDE what MY child should have! You can be hired and you be FIRED by famlies!

I am soo glad I never had to use daycare for my kids!

[thatgagirl]

Thank you NannyDe

I went over the handbook again with mom, because it is VERY specific to my policies on food. I am very very strict on food that is consumed here, no juice, no junk, very little processed. Most people pick me BECAUSE of this, which is why I have never dealt with this. I also only have breastfed infants, and breastfed my own. Formula is VERY new to me. When I asked my question it was because I didnt know how many ounces/cups etc, and I wanted to see the guidelines.

Things have been settled. I will now provide all the food and drink for this child (since I normally do over 12 mos anyway) for an extra fee each week.

I won't go any further than that into what happened because I will prob just get chewed out again by a certain few...but it is settled.

[thatgagirl]

Your clients are your employeers..They are HIRING you to work for them, and that work involves taking care of their child. Since when does a employee call the shots? What gives you the right to DECIDE all these things for someone elses kids? If I came to you and said we are vegitarians, DO NOT give my child meat, I would expect you to follow my orders and NOT give my child meat! I don't care what is on your list to feed my child, you had better listen to me the parent! If I don't want you to give my child cookies, I would expect you to listen and not give cookies behind my back just because you think you have the right to DECIDE what MY child should have! You can be hired and you be FIRED by famlies!

I am soo glad I never had to use daycare for my kids!

I am NOT a Nanny. The parents are NOT my employer. Sorry.

Me not giving juice is NOT the same as giving a vegetarian meat or a child a cookie..I would never do those things anyway.

[kendallina]

Your clients are your employeers..They are HIRING you to work for them, and that work involves taking care of their child. Since when does a employee call the shots? What gives you the right to DECIDE all these things for someone elses kids? If I came to you and said we are vegitarians, DO NOT give my child meat, I would expect you to follow my orders and NOT give my child meat! I don't care what is on your list to feed my child, you had better listen to me the parent! If I don't want you to give my child cookies, I would expect you to listen and not give cookies behind my back just because you think you have the right to DECIDE what MY child should have! You can be hired and you be FIRED by famlies!

I am soo glad I never had to use daycare for my kids!

I don't agree that parents are hiring me as their employee. They aren't. I own a business and they are choosing to be my clients. My business has rules and regulations that I (and the state, etc) have setup and the parents and myself have to follow those rules. If a parent doesn't like my rules, then they are free to find another provider who's rules they like. But, I won't change my philosophy or how I run my business because of one parent (unless I see their point and think they're right).

If I was the parent's employees, they would be paying employee taxes, withholding, etc. And I wouldn't have business liability insurance

Sorry to hijack...

[kendallina]

Thank you NannyDe

I went over the handbook again with mom, because it is VERY specific to my policies on food. I am very very strict on food that is consumed here, no juice, no junk, very little processed. Most people pick me BECAUSE of this, which is why I have never dealt with this. I also only have breastfed infants, and breastfed my own. Formula is VERY new to me. When I asked my question it was because I didnt know how many ounces/cups etc, and I wanted to see the guidelines.

Things have been settled. I will now provide all the food and drink for this child (since I normally do over 12 mos anyway) for an extra fee each week.

I won't go any further than that into what happened because I will prob just get chewed out again by a certain few...but it is settled.

Good! I'm glad things got settled and you and mom were able to come to an agreement. It always feels good to have a difficult discussion with a parent that comes out okay. Nice job.

[broncomom1973]

Thatagirl, please dont let some of the responses to this thread keep you from posting questions in the future. That is what forums like these are for and there will always be disagreements unfortunately. I think you sound like a very caring caregiver and that you are looking out for the best interests of this little girl. I too am glad that you and the mom got things worked out.