Parent Dishonest on Assistance Forms

[Cradle2crayons]

I fill out my section. The parent fills out their section. I don't LOOK at what they fill out. It's not my job to verify the parent is being honest, but it IS my job to fill out my section accurately.

If the roles were reversed, I might actually be insulted/upset if my child care provider was reading through my personal information on what should be considered a private document. And double upset if the violation of my privacy was accompanied by a lecture about honesty. I would not confront this mom. I'm sorry to say, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but you shouldn't be reading her personal information to begin with.

exactly my point from the very beginning of this post. My job is to be sure my part is accurate. And like I said I usually fill out my part and hand it to the parent and usually their part isn't filled out anyway.

I did notice, however that it does say in my provider agreement with e state if I KNOWINGLY provide or assist with fraud I am held accountable. But generally I keep copies of those forms here, fill out my part and give it to the parent to finish.

[MarinaVanessa]

I fill out my section. The parent fills out their section. I don't LOOK at what they fill out. It's not my job to verify the parent is being honest, but it IS my job to fill out my section accurately.

If the roles were reversed, I might actually be insulted/upset if my child care provider was reading through my personal information on what should be considered a private document. And double upset if the violation of my privacy was accompanied by a lecture about honesty. I would not confront this mom. I'm sorry to say, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but you shouldn't be reading her personal information to begin with.

exactly my point from the very beginning of this post. My job is to be sure my part is accurate. And like I said I usually fill out my part and hand it to the parent and usually their part isn't filled out anyway.

I did notice, however that it does say in my provider agreement with e state if I KNOWINGLY provide or assist with fraud I am held accountable. But generally I keep copies of those forms here, fill out my part and give it to the parent to finish.

Right, and no one is arguing or saying that you HAVE to make sure that the paperwork is correct ... just that some of us feel like we have a moral obligation to not put our names to something that is wrong (and that we know is wrong).

OP said that she is sure the DCD lives with them and the DCM chose to omit this info. If you would choose to ignore it that is okay ... I wouldn't ignore it, it would eat at me. BUT that's just how I am.

Kelly wrote in her original post most of the information which tells me that she knows what is going on and has doubts. To me it sounds like she doesn't feel right filling out her portion of her information because she knows that the DCM would be keeping required information off of the paperwork. She thought about it enought o want to post it here which to me means that she is probably struggling with the decision of whether or not to go ahead and fill out the paperwork or talk to the DCM first.

Where I live our nearest subsidy program requires that the paperwork be filled out completely and truthfully. It goes far enough to require that the names, ages and relationships of all adults living in the home be listed. If a DCP had told me that there were other parents living in the home but left that information out when filling out paperwork for subsidy especially leaving out that the child's father lived in the home ... I personally would not be okay with that.

I've had a situation where I was told that the parent was single and looking for work and that was why she needed child care. One day I got a call from the subsidy program to verify information and I was questioned about DCM's living and working situation. I told them exactly what I was told and confirmed that the DCM would drop off at around the same time in the mornings but would pick up at different times depending what time DCM was done with interviews and/or picking up applications. A few weeks later I got notice that DCM was being terminated. Apparently DCD was in fact with DCM and living with them and she was working odd jobs for "cash". I don't know how they found out but I later got another call from the subsidy program and was questioned again about the information. In the end I was told that they just wanted to make sure that I wasn't a part of the DCM's "plot" which would help them determine who had to pay all of the money back. Because I didn't know and DCM lied to me as well I did not have to repay any portion of the subsidy while DCM had full responsibility to repay the money back. Had I known and they found out then I would have had to repay the money back. My last payment would also have been withheld.

I would rather not get into a situation like that where things could get iffy so if I had a suspicion that something was up then I would talk to DCP about it.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I think a good solution is for the OP to do exactly what cradle 2 crayons mentioned. Get a blank form, or have the mom provide a new blank form.
"Hey Susie, about the paperwork....I glanced at what you gave me and noticed all of your personal and financial information was already filled in by you. In the interests of respecting and protecting your privacy, I need a blank form,.so I can fill out my section without having to view your information."

When I get copies from the state of my subsidy children, their financial information is redacted.
it's kinda an invasion of privacy to read her stuff. It's the states job to verify. No one is ever going to advocate helping a parent commit fraud. When a provider signs the form, she is only.attesting that the info she provided is correct, not verifying the parent provided accurate information.

[Blackcat31]

I think a good solution is for the OP to do exactly what cradle 2 crayons mentioned. Get a blank form, or have the mom provide a new blank form.
"Hey Susie, about the paperwork....I glanced at what you gave me and noticed all of your personal and financial information was already filled in by you. In the interests of respecting and protecting your privacy, I need a blank form,.so I can fill out my section without having to view your information."

When I get copies from the state of my subsidy children, their financial information is redacted.
it's kinda an invasion of privacy to read her stuff. It's the states job to verify. No one is ever going to advocate helping a parent commit fraud. When a provider signs the form, she is only.attesting that the info she provided is correct, not verifying the parent provided accurate information.

Since OP already KNOWS this info, asking for a new blank form so she can "pretend" she didn't see any of what DCM filled out, would in this situation be similar to simply sticking your head in the sand and pretending that she doesn't know a thing. That wouldn't be something I could live with.

In regards to your comment about the provider ONLY attesting to her info being correct, that's where my state is a bit different. Here, I am going through this state rating system and one of the things that we as child care providers are now required to collaborate and work WITH other agencies the family is using. This is all part of the parent-provider relationship. We are encouraged to help and assist parents in filling out forms and applications for a myriad of things.

We are even supplied with the income guideline sheets in order to help them see if they are able to qualify or not. Also part of our instructions when a parent fills out the application for assistance for child care, we are also to report any SUPSPECT false or fraudulent info.

This isn't the role I chose to be in...it is just one that is being placed on me by the state and one in which I will have access to more info about a family than I care to know but I guess it is one way for the state to keep the fraud down and collaborating with ALL parties involved is just one method of covering all their bases.

There is definitely two sides to every story and every situation and the ways in which we deal with them are bound to be different as well but that doesn't mean any one of us is outright wrong.

[Unregistered]

I do know for sure that DCD does live with them. Just today she was telling me what improvements he's been making on the house because they want to sell it. (She tends to be one of those parents who tells you more than you really want to know.)

It's really not going to be a lot of money since he doesn't come regularly and the state doesn't pay unlicensed providers as much as licensed. But it just feels wrong to lie in order to get government benefits and it affects all of us since it's our tax dollars that are involved. People who take advantage of the welfare system make it harder for the people who really need it to get help.

Still haven't decided what I'm going to do.

I was told that if I knew that a parent was lying to get CCA and didn't report it, like the contract I signed to be able to receive payment from the state said I had too, then I could be sued and have to pay the money back since I wrongfully got it.

[Laurel]

I only take private pay parents because once I tried the county assistance route and it was a major hassle.

Laurel

[Unregistered]

I only take private pay parents because once I tried the county assistance route and it was a major hassle.

Laurel

THIS! I stopped taking subsidy after getting bamboozled by the state and their clients more than once and their trail of paperwork that is INSANE!

That said, before I stopped subsidy, I did have a mom who I knew the bf lived with her. I do not know all the requirements of the state. I filled out the following information:

My name, my #, my license ID, My address, My contracted hours with her, and my signature.

There was nothing on the paper for her to fill out but her name, addr, case # and phone # and the hours contracted.

I would have no way of knowing if she committed fraud or not because the financial info was not there. I have seen an application before (because I used to hand them out to interviewees who asked about subsidy) and know that a lot of those ??'s were on the form, but I never saw any parent actually fill them out nor did I need to do ANYTHING in regards to their application. They filled it out, and if approved, was then given the "provider-parent form" and that was it.

I think that it is NONE of anyone's business what a parent fills out but if they're dumb enough to put their business on a form and then GIVE it to someone, all expectation of privacy is gone because they chose to hand you the paper. In that case, if you're sure that they live together, you'd address it as a mistake "Suzie, I noticed you show dad not living in hh, can you correct?" And then you'll find out 1. She'll correct it 2. She tries to play it off or 3. perhaps the situation has changed since you knew last but at least you have addressed it in a non-confrontational way.