Parent Dishonest on Assistance Forms

**Willow** · 06-22-2013, 12:56 PM

Dcd may not actually be dad.

If that's the cause obviously she doesn't live with him and would completely explain why she listed what she did as child support and not common law income.

A lot of people just naturally assume my children are my husband's, even before when we were just dating. Despite living together I was required to not include his income, only mine and my child support counted even though we definitely shared bills.

I'd be seriously miffed if I had to explain their paternity to anyone because it's no ones business but mine.

I hope if you decide to confront her or turn her in that you won't offend her if that is truly the case.

**Cradle2crayons** · 06-22-2013, 01:44 PM

It's one thing to say that the guy living with her isn't living with her, however, its another thing to say because he really is living there that mom is "taking advantage of the system"

First of all, as you said, the guy is getting laid off. So he won't have income. Unemployment is never guaranteed and until he gets it, she doesn't have to report it. Has she actually said she isn't going to report income?

I think there's a bit of jumping the gun going on here.

I have a mixed family. I have three step sons who look like they are mine and people assume they are. I have a daughter with my husband. Ad we have an adopted son that is neither of ours biologically that nobody has any idea he isn't ours. I have a different last name as my husband of 11 years. I don't inform people nor feel the need to explain myself and if a daycare provider asked my personal business that doesn't relate to daycare I'd tell her to take a hike.

The only thing of the information you have given here that seems off is the information about her not putting dad on the form. If he is even the biological dad which doesn't seem to be anyone's business.

I think the best thing I could do in this situation is that I tell parent I personally take these papers turned in very seriously and to be very careful to be sure everything on these forms are 100% true and honest and leave it at that.

I would be furious if someone insisted my children's paternity, adoption status or anything else was their business. The provider is supposed to fill out their part and sign THEIR PART. Nowhere on those forms does it say that the provider has to verify parental information. That's what the DHS or etc workers are supposed to do,

**Little Star75** · 06-22-2013, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Cradle2crayons

It's one thing to say that the guy living with her isn't living with her, however, its another thing to say because he really is living there that mom is "taking advantage of the system"

First of all, as you said, the guy is getting laid off. So he won't have income. Unemployment is never guaranteed and until he gets it, she doesn't have to report it. Has she actually said she isn't going to report income?

I think there's a bit of jumping the gun going on here.

I have a mixed family. I have three step sons who look like they are mine and people assume they are. I have a daughter with my husband. Ad we have an adopted son that is neither of ours biologically that nobody has any idea he isn't ours. I have a different last name as my husband of 11 years. I don't inform people nor feel the need to explain myself and if a daycare provider asked my personal business that doesn't relate to daycare I'd tell her to take a hike.

The only thing of the information you have given here that seems off is the information about her not putting dad on the form. If he is even the biological dad which doesn't seem to be anyone's business.

I think the best thing I could do in this situation is that I tell parent I personally take these papers turned in very seriously and to be very careful to be sure everything on these forms are 100% true and honest and leave it at that.

I would be furious if someone insisted my children's paternity, adoption status or anything else was their business. The provider is supposed to fill out their part and sign THEIR PART. Nowhere on those forms does it say that the provider has to verify parental information. That's what the DHS or etc workers are supposed to do,

I don't believe the op is questioning the child's paternity. From what I understand is that the op is mad about the DCP taking advantage of the system by not reporting that there is a parent living in the home.

The way subsidy works is if both parents are working and within income guidelines they will qualify for Childcare services. If this parent reports that dad, boyfriend or whatever he is, is not working they won't qualify because one parent is at home while mom works.

What I think these parents are doing, either Dcd is working under the table (cash) so he won't have to report to the unemployment or simply doesn't want to stay home with the child all day

Which I don't think it's right anyways but I wouldn't report it because I don't feel it's none of my business but we all don't think or feel the same. Kwim

**Cradle2crayons** · 06-22-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Little Star75

I don't believe the op is questioning the child's paternity. From what I understand is that the op is mad about the DCP taking advantage of the system by not reporting that there is a parent living in the home.

The way subsidy works is if both parents are working and within income guidelines they will qualify for Childcare services. If this parent reports that dad, boyfriend or whatever he is, is not working they won't qualify because one parent is at home while mom works.

What I think these parents are doing, either Dcd is working under the table (cash) so he won't have to report to the unemployment or simply doesn't want to stay home with the child all day

Which I don't think it's right anyways but I wouldn't report it because I don't feel it's none of my business but we all don't think or feel the same. Kwim

Yep I know what ya mean

here both parents don't have to work. One can be working while the other one participates in the states work program. Or one can go to school. Or both can be unemployed and actively looking for work while participating in community service and/or the work program.

But here, one or both don't have to be employed. With the jobs as few as they are, it's usually that one is working and one is doing the other options. But if both are working they will likely be over the income requirements.

**Starburst** · 06-22-2013, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Kelly

I do know for sure that DCD does live with them. Just today she was telling me what improvements he's been making on the house because they want to sell it. (She tends to be one of those parents who tells you more than you really want to know.)

It's really not going to be a lot of money since he doesn't come regularly and the state doesn't pay unlicensed providers as much as licensed. But it just feels wrong to lie in order to get government benefits and it affects all of us since it's our tax dollars that are involved. People who take advantage of the welfare system make it harder for the people who really need it to get help.

Still haven't decided what I'm going to do.

In that case: I, personally, would tell DCM:
"In all good conscience, I can't sign this due to the information you have given that I know is not true. I don't want to put myself, my family, or my business on the line when I know the information you gave on this form is false and could possibly implicate me for accessory to fraud. I will however be glad to sign it if you bring me another copy with the correct information"

**Lyss** · 06-22-2013, 07:54 PM

I had a parent try to lie on her assistance forms (through her work not state) and said that my payment dates were different and my charges were more. She had some long drawn out story about how in order to get her reimbursement by the 15th instead of the 30th she had to say my dates where different and the charge was what she was allowed to claim up to (so she figured she'd say I charged right at the cap, $75 more than I did). Even though it wasn't MY tax money, like state assistance, it is money that her co-workers pay into so I thought it was rude and said I couldn't sign unless it was correct (plus I was afraid how/what they would report to IRS). a few times she tried to bring me the blank forms, which I wouldn't sign either unless I filled in the proper information (which annoyed her :

I even called her HR department and talked to someone about what was claimed, they couldn't tell me anything but they could verify my information with what she reported. I don't know what happened but she came to me the next month and asked if I had called HR, I denied and said they called me saying they were doing random checks to make sure that I was properly reporting the correct amount on my income and that my tax ID was correct because they had to 1099 me (they didn't, I never received money from them because she was the one reimbursed after paying my fees herself). Thankfully she believed me and used it as another reason why she hated her employer (she got fired 2 months later, she had been trying for 9 months to get fired)

**TheGoodLife** · 06-22-2013, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Starburst

In that case: I, personally, would tell DCM:
"In all good conscience, I can't sign this due to the information you have given that I know is not true. I don't want to put myself, my family, or my business on the line when I know the information you gave on this form is false and could possibly implicate me for accessory to fraud. I will however be glad to sign it if you bring me another copy with the correct information"

I like that wording- upfront, honest, but not too harsh for their sake. Although I can't stand people who are cheating the system (or trying to)

**TheGoodLife** · 06-22-2013, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Lyss

I had a parent try to lie on her assistance forms (through her work not state) and said that my payment dates were different and my charges were more. She had some long drawn out story about how in order to get her reimbursement by the 15th instead of the 30th she had to say my dates where different and the charge was what she was allowed to claim up to (so she figured she'd say I charged right at the cap, $75 more than I did). Even though it wasn't MY tax money, like state assistance, it is money that her co-workers pay into so I thought it was rude and said I couldn't sign unless it was correct (plus I was afraid how/what they would report to IRS). a few times she tried to bring me the blank forms, which I wouldn't sign either unless I filled in the proper information (which annoyed her :

I even called her HR department and talked to someone about what was claimed, they couldn't tell me anything but they could verify my information with what she reported. I don't know what happened but she came to me the next month and asked if I had called HR, I denied and said they called me saying they were doing random checks to make sure that I was properly reporting the correct amount on my income and that my tax ID was correct because they had to 1099 me (they didn't, I never received money from them because she was the one reimbursed after paying my fees herself). Thankfully she believed me and used it as another reason why she hated her employer (she got fired 2 months later, she had been trying for 9 months to get fired)

Good thinking on your part to deny being the one who called! I personally had a family in my Head Start classroom years ago- unmarried couple with 3 kids together. Used her income to get tax benefits and assistance- the dad made great money and they went on vacations, spent money, and so forth all the time. Irritated the heck out of me!!

**Blackcat31** · 06-23-2013, 07:35 AM

Just like being a mandated reporter...you only have to SUSPECT NOT KNOW.

It's the fraud department that will sort out the details.

I still stand by my words and would report her in a heartbeat IF I SUSPECTED she was purposely being dishonest.

I got the feeling from OP that she wasn't just assuming anything.
She obviously felt strongly enough about it to post here and ask....she obviously feels she DOES know and that the mom IS being dishonest.

I am surprised at the number of posters who are trying to make excuses for this parent. Based off the info I personally picked up from OP's post, there wasn't any guessing going on and her question in her original post was based on info she KNOWS.

Welfare fraud is a HUGE weight on ALL of us financially. It costs the tax payers between $9.0 - $13.5 Billion dollars every year.

Like SUSPECTED abuse/mistreatment, I would not hesitate to report SUSPECTED welfare fraud.

I DO like MV and Starburst's suggestion of simply asking mom....however, most people who would lie to the government and risk being caught would probably have no issues lying to you either but it's worth atleast asking her and then acting based on her answers or how you (OP) felt about it afterwards.

**Willow** · 06-23-2013, 08:30 AM

It's not an attempt to make excuses on my end anyway BC. In MN how she filled out the paperwork is textbook for a child living with a father who is not biological.

Add to that I think it's hard for a lot of us to understand how OP knows so much about a particular family's financials. I don't know that sort of information about my close family members and best friends, and it's certainly not something I'd ever discuss with my daycare families.

That's not to say this relationship isn't very different for whatever reason but I think that's probably why so many are wondering how on earth one could have such information.

Turn them in, don't turn them in, the choice is hers of course. But if you turn someone in because you *think* you have the full story and really don't please be fully prepared to deal with the fall out from that. Would be no different than how most of us would feel if we were turned in to the state for abuse when the child simply got a scrape while riding a bike.

If I knew someone was attempting to defraud the state I would not only turn them in but terminate our contract for care also. Trust needs to go both ways and I would no.longer trust a family in my home that was attempting to do such a thing.

**Cradle2crayons** · 06-23-2013, 08:59 AM