Accidents On Purpose? And How To Handle This DCM?

[KIDZRMYBIZ]

It's the early bedtimes!

I have done daycare for 11 years, and the biggest difference from a decade ago is the number of parents that put their children to bed at a ridiculously early hour. I have a few that do, and it messes up the child's whole day. They are chronically cranky, bored and fidgety at quiet time, and largely unable to cope with anything that displeases them. I've had pt kids, too, and they can have difficulty getting in the swing of our routines, but by 3yo they can understand that rules are different from place to place and should be able to adjust. If you decide the income from your pt'er is worth it, I would suggest just trying to make the time with you count and teach him well - and it sounds like you are - since he obviously isn't getting it at home with such lazy parenting.

[Heidi]

For him, I'm thinking there would be a potty break time right before each clen up. Plus a reminder that Mom is not the maker of rules at daycare. Your home, your rules and he needs to follow them.

For mom, if it continues she may need a heads up to start seeking alternative care if he is unable to follow the rules & routine at your house.

You know he "doesn't have to go" if she sends him before clean-up, right? Then he'll have an accident AT clean up again.

I'd still do it, though, you're right. But I think this little manipulator will not be so easily subdued.

[Play Care]

He would have picked up every piece of food and no,I would not have helped.I will help pick up toys butfood thrown on the floor from a tantrum?!NEVER! He could have taken all day to pick that up for all I care.He could have sat there until his mom came and I would have put it on a plate and saved it for pick up on his next day. As for naps,you alreadyknow what everyone is going to say about that" If he's too old for a nap then he's too old for care" He needs a nap!
I agree with the other post about having him go to the bathroom before clean up.

I can't leave food on the floor as I have other children that would eat it

And trust me, when I "help" it's not really "helping" KWIM?

[Play Care]

I would document each time the child had an accident on a copy of our schedule. I'd put it at the bottom.
9:40am Asked to assist in cleaning up toys during clean-up time and had an accident.
11:00am Threw food on the floor, was asked to clean it up, and had an accident.
etc. etc. etc.

I like this - clearly shows what was asked, and the result.
We don't "share" here either. The only thing that we can do is ask for the toy when the child is done with it.

[daycarediva]

ECS- great idea- noted each accident and corresponding activity
accident during clean up time
accident during clean up time
accident during clean up time


notice a trend? ::

This child is NEVER supposed to cry. No matter how many conversations I have had with this dcm, she gets upset if he is upset. It's RIDICULOUS. She also would NEVER EVER agree that he is intentionally manipulating the situation. He took a 2 week vacation after Christmas, when he came back he threw tantrums at drop off and then when Mom left, he wiped his tears and went on about his business. Even with video evidence of this, she said "Oh he just knows you can't comfort him."

I am an attachment parent. I have adapted it to suit each of my children, in each stage of their development. This is nothing against AP. I am very anti never allowing your child to struggle, or own their behavior. It's SUPER frustrating.

I wouldn't have attempted hand over hand in this situation, dcb had his arms wrapped around his chest tightly and wouldn't move. He has no rules at home, no is NOT a word ever used in their home, I am just super glad today is his last scheduled day this week.

If it continues, I am going to suggest to dcm that dcb come back FT or at least increase his days to see if that helps. If not, behavioral intervention plan goes into place, and then I would term if it came to it.

[Unregistered]

LOL Heidi, yes I'm certain he will not need to go right before clean up

I would not mention that it was close to clean up time, and I would not phrase is as an option. Just a casual "Tommy it's time for you to go potty."

At least mom could not say "Well he was just too busy playing and 'sharing' with his friends and didn't realise he needed to go."

It would help demonstrate the 'accidents' are on purpose.

[Heidi]

I do this, also

I tried to find a good article on it, but it's called guided compliance.

Basically, you give a command.
If the child complies, you give them a simple praise like "thank you".
If not, you repeat the exact command again, but use a gesture such as pointing.
Once again, if they comply, praise.
If not, you say "I will help you xx". You help (gently force) them, then offer praise again.

It does not work with all children or with all ages. Not recommended for use with teens, for sure. ::

[blandino]

I had a DCG do that to me once. She wanted to wear her spare pair of panties because they have "Cinderella" on them. She wet through one pair, and when I changed her I put her in a different pair of spares, and she wet again, looked at me and said "now I can wear my Cinderella panties ?".

Mom was pretty tough, and I knew she would back me up - so DCG got a pull-up (which she was not happy about at all). I foiled her little plan, and it never happened again.

I would definitely agree with potty breaks before cleaning, that way his plan won't work for him anymore.

[blandino]

I do this, also

I do hand-over-hand also.

[Michelle]

I have a 2 year old that will call my name to make sure I see her and then throw her food, plate, spoon, and cup on the floor.. so now she gets 2 peas one small chunk of meat and a little tiny piece of bread at a time and after she eats this, she has to ask me very politely " Miss Michelle, may a have more food please?"
I have been doing this for a week now and it's very tiring for me but I tell her it's because she throws her food!
Hopefully this works because when I made her clean up her own mess, she seemed to love it!

As far as your dck...
Yea, I think I invented that trick... I hated bringing food in from the car when I was a kid... so I always had to go to the bathroom whenever we got back from the store... my mom caught on to it pretty fast...(no accidents...just locking myself in there) ::::::

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

ECS- great idea- noted each accident and corresponding activity
accident during clean up time
accident during clean up time
accident during clean up time


notice a trend? ::

This child is NEVER supposed to cry. No matter how many conversations I have had with this dcm, she gets upset if he is upset. It's RIDICULOUS. She also would NEVER EVER agree that he is intentionally manipulating the situation. He took a 2 week vacation after Christmas, when he came back he threw tantrums at drop off and then when Mom left, he wiped his tears and went on about his business. Even with video evidence of this, she said "Oh he just knows you can't comfort him."

I am an attachment parent. I have adapted it to suit each of my children, in each stage of their development. This is nothing against AP. I am very anti never allowing your child to struggle, or own their behavior. It's SUPER frustrating.

I wouldn't have attempted hand over hand in this situation, dcb had his arms wrapped around his chest tightly and wouldn't move. He has no rules at home, no is NOT a word ever used in their home, I am just super glad today is his last scheduled day this week.

If it continues, I am going to suggest to dcm that dcb come back FT or at least increase his days to see if that helps. If not, behavioral intervention plan goes into place, and then I would term if it came to it.

I wonder what her response will be? I want to say it will be along the lines of, "He doesn't wish to clean-up and feels distressed that he has to do so. Obviously, that is why he is having accidents." ::

Please do update on her response.

[MissAnn]

As far as your dck...
Yea, I think I invented that trick... I hated bringing food in from the car when I was a kid... so I always had to go to the bathroom whenever we got back from the store... my mom caught on to it pretty fast...(no accidents...just locking myself in there) ::::::

happyface. Me too! I come from a family of 9 kids and groceries were abundant!

[BABYLUVER21]

My oldest child (10 1/2) has tried this 2x this week. The first time I let it slide. The 2nd time, I realized the little turd was trying to get out of bringing in the 2 bags I asked her to. She fussed how badly she had to pee.

Note: After she begrudgingly brought in the bags, no mention of bathroom again NOR did she go. I called her out "Didn't you have to pee?" She got it.

My point is that YES THIS KID IS DOING IT ON PURPOSE and his mom denying it only makes her look pretty dang foolish.

It took only 2 times for me to see that my kid was trying to get out of doing something (I always give benefit of doubt the 1st time, but definitely after that I start getting suspicious!!) . I'd log his bathroom break times (scheduled) and then the times he "says" he has to go, but then somehow he pees in his pants anyway? Yeah, that's not OBVIOUS!

[daycarediva]

ha.

"oh my, he must be so upset about something going on here to have this many accidents."

"yes dcm, he is upset about having to clean up."

"Ohhh no, he has always had a rough time with transitions and he ONLY has accidents when he is sad."

I couldn't help it. I rolled my eyes and walked away and left her standing in the doorway before I said something really unprofessional. Dcm said from the entry while I went back to the other kids "Well, I'm not sure if dcb will be here tomorrow because of this! I will let you know!"

and here was me although I did say "Ok!"

SEE YA CRAZY LADY!

[Heidi]

ha.

"oh my, he must be so upset about something going on here to have this many accidents."

"yes dcm, he is upset about having to clean up."

"Ohhh no, he has always had a rough time with transitions and he ONLY has accidents when he is sad."

I couldn't help it. I rolled my eyes and walked away and left her standing in the doorway before I said something really unprofessional. Dcm said from the entry while I went back to the other kids "Well, I'm not sure if dcb will be here tomorrow because of this! I will let you know!"

and here was me although I did say "Ok!"

SEE YA CRAZY LADY!

What do YOU know? You're only a trained professional with years of experience.

That poor child, being so traumatized by having to do his share of the work!

::::::