Illegally Unlicensed Daycares that Advertise

[Cradle2crayons]

I provide Childcare because I love kids and I don't use it as a source of income, but on the other hand, I can't pay someone so I can watch THEIR kids. KWIM??

If I charged too much less than what I already do, literally I'd be paying the parents for dropping their kids off here.

I started my daycare really because I was bored and my kids wanted some other kids to play with. We live far removed and socializing is difficult if they aren't in school.

Also, I love to teach kids. I never would choose it as a career in a school setting, but I'm a homeschooling mom to the bone... Lol

But just because I love doing it, and it is rewarding, and my kids have play mates, doesn't mean I should go into the negative every week either .

[MarinaVanessa]

I had a call from someone looking for a nanny (I'm on the board of our local child care association and we do referrals for families). She was having triplets and was looking for someone to come to her house to help out 3-4 days a week. She said she was looking for someone that was inexpensive. I didn't wait to hear what "inexpensive" meant to her and I just informed her that what she was looking for wad called a "nanny" and that unless she found a SAHM that was willing to help her out and willing to charge less she was looking at $120-$160 for 3-4 days and that was on the lower side. She was not happy. She wanted someone with credentials, background checked, CPR and safety training, education and experience. I suggested that she place an add for that on CL or Care.com because I would not be able to help her find what she was looking for not for less than what I quoted her for.

I did however tell her that I personally knew someone that had been a teacher but decided to stay home with her children once she had her first one (she now has 2 children) and that she is known to take on nanny type work from time to time at a discounted rate as long as she was able to take her 2 girls along. The woman was adamant that other children would not be welcomed and that "she would need to leave her own kids with someone else". At that point I told her that it would not work because the while point of her not working was to be a SAHM and not leave her kids with a sitter. Her response was "she doesn't have someone she can leave them with?" And what I wanted to say was "don't you?" But instead I said "She chose to leave a FT teaching position to be a SAHM to be with her children which is why she only accepts jobs which allow her girls. Do you see how accepting a nanny job which didn't allow that just wouldn't appeal to her? Especially for a low amount of pay". Man, the woman sounded really frustrated but I just really think that she had no clue about child care. I must have spent 25 minutes with her on the phone explaining her options and I don't think I was any closer to having her understand, maybe because nothing I said was what she wanted to hear .

[Unregistered]

I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.

[Cradle2crayons]

I'm the ONLY unlicensed state approved provider within 100 miles.

I'm also the ONLY home provider that's state approved in my county.

Licensing offers ME nothing, other than a few extra bucks from state pay reimbursement, but that few bucks is paid for anyway by the parent.

I've never had a parent even ASK me if I'm licensed.

My current state pay family went to several other people on the list of state approved and said she wouldn't leave her dog there, much less her three kids.

[Blackcat31]

I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.

The vent/ thread isn't about LEGALLY unlicensed child care providers. It is about those who do things ILLEGALLY.

No matter if the care is superior or not is irrelevant. If the provider is breaking the law then she should be turned in and/or reported.

I have ZERO issues with providers like you who follow the state licensing laws. You yourself said you do so you are definitely NOT stealing anyone's business.

I'm in MN too and personally I think the ratios for licensed providers should be lowered and the ratios for legally unlicensed should be raised. The gap is HUGE. (but I guess that is a whole other topic. )

[Unregistered]

I'm the ONLY unlicensed state approved provider within 100 miles.

I'm also the ONLY home provider that's state approved in my county.

Licensing offers ME nothing, other than a few extra bucks from state pay reimbursement, but that few bucks is paid for anyway by the parent.

I've never had a parent even ASK me if I'm licensed.

My current state pay family went to several other people on the list of state approved and said she wouldn't leave her dog there, much less her three kids.

I am the unregistered one above you, cradle 2 crayons
I actually have never been asked from a parent if I am licensed or not either. I guess when they come for the interview they feel comfortable enough to consider me.they maybe will tell me that they have a few other interviews to go to, but then they do call me back and tell me they want me to take their child,whether they have gone to licensed ones to check out or not. I did have a parent tell me that they had checked out a licensed daycare and would not even consider putting their child in that daycare home as it was very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled.

Being licensed really does not offer me anything also. I do not like the food program they have, I think that it is not that nutritious and I like to fix many different things for the kids to eat.

[melilley]

Not everyone does child care to survive. Many providers do it to pass the time or to simply care for a child because it is something they love to do.

I have a neighbor near me who provides full time infant/toddler care for $75 per week. (The going rate for infants/toddlers here is anywhere from $150-175 per week).

This provider does this because she wants to. She LOVES babies. She also has a husband who has a fantastic job. They definitely do not "need" the money.

I think that unless you are providing care illegally, you should be able to do what you love....even if you did it for free.

I know this is a sore spot for some providers but really there are hundreds of scenarios that aren't our own so I can see how a lot of the different ones can upset others... for example, I am in this for the long haul. I am a lifer in this profession and still provide child care despite not having any of my own children at home with me.

I am sometimes offended by providers who choose to do this job simply because they have young kids of their own and when those kids go off to school, those providers plan on going back to their medical or financial or whatever other careers.... so in my eyes I could complain about those providers as they are taking kids that I could enroll.....

See what I mean? I don't really feel that way about other providers...I was just using that as an example of how many different scenarios and situations there are out there and somehow no matter what, someone is not going to be happy with all of them....kwim?

The only REAL complaint I have are providers who provide care illegally. Other than that, to each his/her own.

So true, I didn't really think of it that way. I too don't have a problem with unlicensed providers if it is legal!

[AmyKidsCo]

So true, I didn't really think of it that way. I too don't have a problem with unlicensed providers if it is legal!

I do, for two main reasons. The first is that Jane Doe up the street doing unregulated care only takes cash payment so she doesn't have to pay taxes on it. Sure the parents can't claim it on their taxes, but she's charging so much less than average that they don't mind. Meanwhile I'm paying taxes at a rate that would probably be lower if all the Jane Does were paying their fair share.

The other reason is that around here there's no distinction made between regulated family child care and unregulated child care. So when Jane Doe puts an infant sleep to sleep on her stomach on the couch and the infant dies of SIDS the media just reports that she was a "family child care provider" which instantly makes parents question the quality of care I provide.

IMO the best way to raise the overall quality of child care and provide a minimal level of safety is to require regulation for everyone. I'm not saying that all unregulated providers are bad - I know many people here are unregulated and do a great job - but with regulation it would be easier to weed out the bad ones.

Just my 2c.

[craftymissbeth]

I hear you all, but being a licensed provider does not mean that the care is any better than a unlicensed one. It just means your home,yard and equipment has all been checked out to make sure it is safe. The person who is licensed might not be a good care giver themselves, but their home has been checked and gotten a background check.

I am one that is unlicensed and have done daycare for over 30 years.
in my state,Mn, if you are unlicensed you can have only 2 children,if they are from the same family or just one child. that is all I take, 2 children from one family.

I do daycare because I do love the kids,love to teach them and money is not a issue as to why I do daycare. I just really love the children and want to make a difference in their little lives. This is just what I have been hearing in the news the last few years, but more children get hurt while in the care of licensed daycare's then in unlicensed home daycare's,now that being said that is not the case all the time, but just seems to be more prevalent. You can have more children in your care if your licensed and I think that makes a big difference in being able to watch every child every minute, Also I do not under or over charge,I find out what the going rate is and then I charge accordingly to what is being charged in my area for both un and licensed.

We are not trying to take your business away from you either as not being licensed, but I guess it is really up to parents as to if they want unlicensed or licensed care and what they are willing to pay for care for their child. I guess what I am trying to say here is that whether your licensed or not, it is actually the person giving the care that is most important,if they don't give good care and are licensed,why would a parent choose them just for being licensed,if you now what I mean.

My issue is not that they are unlicensed... the issue is that they are ILLEGALLY unlicensed.

ETA: Although, I do have to say that it bothers me that these people more than likely don't have much training as far as childcare goes and quite possibly don't even have CPR/First Aid certificates. In Kansas, it is a requirement of licensed providers to take a safe sleep class if you provide care for children 12 months or younger. Are these unlicensed providers here educated as far as SIDS go? My nephew died of SIDS almost 5 years ago... so the fact that they likely are untrained even in this one aspect truly hits home for me.

[Blackcat31]

I do, for two main reasons. The first is that Jane Doe up the street doing unregulated care only takes cash payment so she doesn't have to pay taxes on it. Sure the parents can't claim it on their taxes, but she's charging so much less than average that they don't mind. Meanwhile I'm paying taxes at a rate that would probably be lower if all the Jane Does were paying their fair share.

The other reason is that around here there's no distinction made between regulated family child care and unregulated child care. So when Jane Doe puts an infant sleep to sleep on her stomach on the couch and the infant dies of SIDS the media just reports that she was a "family child care provider" which instantly makes parents question the quality of care I provide.

IMO the best way to raise the overall quality of child care and provide a minimal level of safety is to require regulation for everyone. I'm not saying that all unregulated providers are bad - I know many people here are unregulated and do a great job - but with regulation it would be easier to weed out the bad ones.

Just my 2c.

I am licensed.

How do you know I am actually claiming all my income?

How do you know I am not placing the infant I have in care to sleep on her tummy?

You don't know. People just assume I am doing the right thing because I am licensed but that license in not a guarantee.

I would never begrudge someone for providing LEGAL unlicensed child care. You do what you have to do in this economy to survive and feed your family.

I DO agree though that there should be minimum standards across the country that are the same for everyone but still for a parent to simply trust those standards is a scary risk to take.

Parents are the ones who should be doing their research into the quality of care they are receiving whether their provider is licensed, regulated, unlicensed or unregulated.

Parents should NEVER automatically assume that just because a provider is licensed that the provider is doing things correctly.

That's like assuming everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.

[Willow]

I am the unregistered one above you, cradle 2 crayons
I actually have never been asked from a parent if I am licensed or not either. I guess when they come for the interview they feel comfortable enough to consider me.they maybe will tell me that they have a few other interviews to go to, but then they do call me back and tell me they want me to take their child,whether they have gone to licensed ones to check out or not. I did have a parent tell me that they had checked out a licensed daycare and would not even consider putting their child in that daycare home as it was very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled.

Being licensed really does not offer me anything also. I do not like the food program they have, I think that it is not that nutritious and I like to fix many different things for the kids to eat.

I think you have a lot of misconceptions about licensed childcare in the state of MN and that's really too bad.

One licensed home that was "very dirty, had too many kids and the house smelled" doesn't mean by a long shot that's how they all are.

Furthermore, being licensed has nothing to do with offering YOU anything. It's about what it may be able to offer families looking for care in regards to some additional safeguards. Bottom line is, every single provider licensed in the state of MN has to have taken SIDS trainings, CPR and first aid courses, passed background checks (along with anyone else living in the home or even those who may just swing in for a visit now and again) and their homes inspected to make sure there aren't any structural issues that could make caring for children in the space dangerous.

Does that protect against everything that could go wrong when you leave your child in the care of a stranger? No. But it does mean the provider cared enough to jump through the hoops and there is a higher likelihood they have good intentions. It increases the odds that the person your child will be cared by will not hurt them or put them in a position to be hurt by someone or something else.

Nothing is 100% but it does reassure (at least on some level) every parent I've ever interviewed who all say they'd never leave their child with someone who hasn't found it worth it to offer them those additional securities.


As far as the food program goes I'm not sure what you're referring to? There is a multitude of food programs (plural) available and each licensed provider has the right to choose which ever one they want. There is nothing that says you have to feed the same foods over and over again, just nutritional guidelines to make sure children are being fed a balanced diet.

[Willow]

My issue is not that they are unlicensed... the issue is that they are ILLEGALLY unlicensed.

ETA: Although, I do have to say that it bothers me that these people more than likely don't have much training as far as childcare goes and quite possibly don't even have CPR/First Aid certificates. In Kansas, it is a requirement of licensed providers to take a safe sleep class if you provide care for children 12 months or younger. Are these unlicensed providers here educated as far as SIDS go? My nephew died of SIDS almost 5 years ago... so the fact that they likely are untrained even in this one aspect truly hits home for me.

Only if they want to.

I'd venture to guess most don't.


I had never heard of such a thing until I started the foster care licensing process. I can't imagine many unlicensed providers would be aware such thing existed or how truly important it is (legally unlicensed providers here aside.....most here are a different crew entirely)

[Cradle2crayons]

Only if they want to.

I'd venture to guess most don't.


I had never heard of such a thing until I started the foster care licensing process. I can't imagine many unlicensed providers would be aware such thing existed or how truly important it is (legally unlicensed providers here aside.....most here are a different crew entirely)

Heck the licensed providers here don't have much in the way of sleep safe or SIDS training either. While I don't agree I should be forced to license, I would like to see the states that do require licensing to adapt the EXACT SAME guidelines so at least they aren't confusing

[Sugar Magnolia]

palm to face!

Ok.....Crafty (OP). I totally get what you were trying to say waaaaay back in your original post. You are dismayed that people are openly advertising for an ILLEGAL operation, am I right? If I read it right, in your state it is illegal to watch children more than 20 hours without a license, and by advertising full time they are clearly breaking the law? So full time providers must be licensed? And their ads say both full time and unlicensed? And you're frustrated that your Kansas licensing authority isn't doing anything about it.

Somewhere above, I gave my best insight......about state budgets, lack of funds and staff. Being legally unlicensed is totally Totally TOTALLY fine.No one here will.disagree I hope. Being ILLEGALLY UNLICENSED IS NEVER OK. At least not in my book.

You know, we should all be outraged. Police monitor craigslist for prostitution right? Illegally caring for children should be taken more seriously. Its NOT ABOUT what type of license you have, its about if you.are breaking the law.

So what can we do? I mean, actually do, not just vent about? Licensing is over worked. Every county needs a watchdog? Someone to patrol craigslist? As a licensed facility/center, I am legally required to list my license # on ANY and.ALL advertising. If folks. are legally unlicensed, their ad should be required to say that as well. If people are operating illegally, they should be busted. By licensing. Your vent, my vent, anyone upset by blatant and obvious illegal care, would best be directed at the elected officials who fund your licensing oversight departments.

[Willow]

Heck the licensed providers here don't have much in the way of sleep safe or SIDS training either. While I don't agree I should be forced to license, I would like to see the states that do require licensing to adapt the EXACT SAME guidelines so at least they aren't confusing

I agree it's not much, and I wish there was far more training required across the board. My point was at least it's something.

As a parent, at least to me, knowing to be licensed my child's provider had to have at least some important (and imho essential) life saving trainings would be better than an unlicensed provider where there is no guarantee they've had any.